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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 24, 2021 19:36:07 GMT -5
My memory's hazy on the subject... Why did Sauron put so much of himself in the ring already? Was it the only way to make it powerful enough to control the nine and the seven?
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Post by berkley on Feb 25, 2021 3:05:12 GMT -5
My memory's hazy on the subject... Why did Sauron put so much of himself in the ring already? Was it the only way to make it powerful enough to control the nine and the seven? My memory is at fault on this too but such as it is, it tells me something vaguely along those lines - but also that I never really understood this reasoning myself when I read LotR as a 14 year old. The rings and the Ring were made before Sauron lost his physical form, right? So it had nothing to do with that. I think the purpose was more or less as you state it, but to me it was always left a little under-explained. But as with you, this is from very distant and probably unreliable memories.
One of the things I look forward to re-encountering when I re-read the books: maybe this time it'll make sense!
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Post by Confessor on Feb 27, 2021 7:55:34 GMT -5
My memory's hazy on the subject... Why did Sauron put so much of himself in the ring already? Was it the only way to make it powerful enough to control the nine and the seven? My memory is a little hazy too, but I believe you're right that putting part of himself into the One Ring made it possible for him to control the three Elven rings and thus dominate the most powerful Elves of Middle-Earth. The same applies to the seven Dwarven rings and the nine Human ones. Also, I've always assumed that it was a safety feature, insofar as it boosted Sauron's power to dominate whoever was wearing the One Ring, in case it was ever taken from him (as it was by Isildur at the end of the War of the Last Alliance). So, he could bend the Ring wearer to his own will, ensuring that it would difficult to turn the One Ring against its maker (unless you were made of stronger stuff, like a Hobbbit is). |
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Post by Confessor on Feb 27, 2021 8:07:42 GMT -5
I treated myself and ordered a copy of the Reader's Companion to The Lord of the Rings by Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull earlier this week.  I received the book yesterday, and have already motored through the notes concerned with the writing of the book and the Prologue. Tonight I'll start reading the notes for Chapter 1: A Long-Expected Party. To be clear, this isn't an annotated version of the book: it already assumes you own a copy of LOTRs with which to cross-reference against this Reader's Guide. It's a really fascinating read, chock full of revealing information about Tolkien's intent, his influences, and how certain scenes in the book changed between the earliest drafts and the published version. It also gives definitions for words that might be archaic to a modern reader, which isn't much use to me, as I know exactly what Tolkien means when he uses out of date colloquial turns of phrase. But then again, I'm from the same geographical area as Tolkien and I had Grandparents and Great-grandparents as a child who were of the same generation as him. So, many of his archaic turns of phrase are quite familiar to me. If you're an 18 year old reader from the U.S. or a non-English speaking country, I'm sure that explanations for these terms are invaluable. I'm planning to power through the notes for the first 8 chapters in the coming week, to catch up to where I am in my current leisurely re-read of LOTRs, and from there on I'll be reading Tolkien's book, with this guide close at hand to consult. Has anyone else here got this book? I really recommend it if you're a hardcore fan.   |
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Post by berkley on Mar 1, 2021 19:34:33 GMT -5
I have a copy but haven't looked at it yet. I bought one of those anniversary editions with some Christmas money a year or two ago and this was included in the box set. I've never heard much about it anywhere and thus have been feeling a little sceptical about its quality, so I'm glad to hear now that it's worth a look.
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Post by Confessor on Mar 2, 2021 7:44:47 GMT -5
I have a copy but haven't looked at it yet. I bought one of those anniversary editions with some Christmas money a year or two ago and this was included in the box set. I've never heard much about it anywhere and thus have been feeling a little sceptical about its quality, so I'm glad to hear now that it's worth a look. I'm up to the notes for chapter 7 and it's a joy of a book, packed with tons of fascinating nuggets of info. I'm really enjoying it. I'd say it's definitely worth your time. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 5, 2021 8:49:46 GMT -5
Two separate questions. I don't know if either of these has been discussed here before or not, but...
1) Have there ever been a Middle Earth based comic?
2) When is that Amazon Middle Earth series coming out??
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 5, 2021 10:07:59 GMT -5
Two separate questions. I don't know if either of these has been discussed here before or not, but... 1) Have there ever been a Middle Earth based comic? 2) When is that Amazon Middle Earth series coming out?? (1) Yes, David Wenzel and Chuck Dixon gave us a lovely adaptation of The Hobbit.
Marvel thought about adapting Tolkien for its Super Special line, but instead opted for Weirdworld instead (a property they didn't have to pay rights for, and which war certainly easier to adapt). That resulted in the three issues of MSS titled "Warriors of the Shadow realm". (2) No idea! |
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Post by Confessor on Mar 6, 2021 21:25:50 GMT -5
So, I've just re-read chapter 11 of LOTRs, "A Knife in the Dark", for the umpteenth time and I've spotted something in the text that I'd never noticed before. I'm sure you will all remember the scene where Aragorn and the Hobbits are sitting around a camp fire in a dell at the foot of Weathertop, hoping the Ringwraiths won't attack. Well, in that scene, just before Aragorn recounts the tale of Beren and Lúthien, Sam recites in the common tongue a few lines of an Elvish poem that he says he learned from Mr. Bilbo. After which, Aragorn tells him, "It is part of the lay that is called The Fall of Gil-galad, which is in an ancient tongue. Bilbo must have translated it. I never knew that." This last remark means that Aragorn already knew Bilbo! Mind... blown!  I checked this out in my newly purchased guide to LOTRs and they agree that it definitely implies that the Ranger has met Bilbo prior to meeting Frodo and the others. Probably a few times, since he was surprised that the Hobbit had translated the Elvish poem, thus suggesting that he knew Bilbo quite well. Weirdly, Frodo and the other Hobbits don't seem to pick up on Aragorn's throwaway remark any more than I have before today. |
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Post by berkley on Mar 6, 2021 22:22:56 GMT -5
I can't remember the details or how it felt to me when I read that passage, but from your description it does seem to give that impression - although I suppose that technically, Aragorn, without actually having met Bilbo, could have heard enough about him from Gandalf to refer to him that way in conversation with anyone who did know him.
The other Hobbits probably just thought, "Everyone knows Bilbo, he's famous!"
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 7, 2021 11:14:41 GMT -5
I can't remember the details or how it felt to me when I read that passage, but from your description it does seem to give that impression - although I suppose that technically, Aragorn, without actually having met Bilbo, could have heard enough about him from Gandalf to refer to him that way in conversation with anyone who did know him.The other Hobbits probably just thought, "Everyone knows Bilbo, he's famous!" That's how I understood it. Since the Rangers had been keeping an eye on the Shire, I assumed Aragorn knew of the famous Hobbit who was versed in Elf lore (especially since he was a friend of Gandalf's). |
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Post by Confessor on Mar 7, 2021 22:25:46 GMT -5
I can't remember the details or how it felt to me when I read that passage, but from your description it does seem to give that impression - although I suppose that technically, Aragorn, without actually having met Bilbo, could have heard enough about him from Gandalf to refer to him that way in conversation with anyone who did know him.The other Hobbits probably just thought, "Everyone knows Bilbo, he's famous!" That's how I understood it. Since the Rangers had been keeping an eye on the Shire, I assumed Aragorn knew of the famous Hobbit who was versed in Elf lore (especially since he was a friend of Gandalf's). I dunno...to me, the words "Bilbo must have translated it. I never knew that." -- especially that last sentence -- definitely suggest that Aragorn actually knew Bilbo, rather than had heard of him via Gandalf or whoever. Otherwise he'd have said, "I hadn't heard that" or "I hadn't been told that." Yes, it's still possible that Aragorn only knows of Bilbo, rather than knows him personally, but then I don't see why he would expect to have such an intimate knowlege of the translations he did as a hobby? Aragorn being surprised to hear of that implies a level of intimacy or friendship with Bilbo, not just a third-party connection to him. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 8, 2021 6:19:47 GMT -5
That's how I understood it. Since the Rangers had been keeping an eye on the Shire, I assumed Aragorn knew of the famous Hobbit who was versed in Elf lore (especially since he was a friend of Gandalf's). I dunno...to me, the words "Bilbo must have translated it. I never knew that." -- especially that last sentence -- definitely suggest that Aragorn actually knew Bilbo, rather than had heard of him via Gandalf or whoever. Otherwise he'd have said, "I hadn't heard that" or "I hadn't been told that." Yes, it's still possible that Aragorn only knows of Bilbo, rather than knows him personally, but then I don't see why he would expect to have such an intimate knowlege of the translations he did as a hobby? Aragorn being surprised to hear of that implies a level of intimacy or friendship with Bilbo, not just a third-party connection to him. It can indeed be read that way, and later in the book Bilbo does say that Aragorn spoke to him about the ring and stuff. He calls him "the Dunadan", so they're not that close, but... you're right, they do know each other! |
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Post by dbutler69 on Mar 9, 2021 10:33:57 GMT -5
So, I've just re-read chapter 11 of LOTRs, "A Knife in the Dark", for the umpteenth time and I've spotted something in the text that I'd never noticed before. I'm sure you will all remember the scene where Aragorn and the Hobbits are sitting around a camp fire in a dell at the foot of Weathertop, hoping the Ringwraiths won't attack. Well, in that scene, just before Aragorn recounts the tale of Beren and Lúthien, Sam recites in the common tongue a few lines of an Elvish poem that he says he learned from Mr. Bilbo. After which, Aragorn tells him, "It is part of the lay that is called The Fall of Gil-galad, which is in an ancient tongue. Bilbo must have translated it. I never knew that." This last remark means that Aragorn already knew Bilbo! Mind... blown! I checked this out in my newly purchased guide to LOTRs and they agree that it definitely implies that the Ranger has met Bilbo prior to meeting Frodo and the others. Probably a few times, since he was surprised that the Hobbit had translated the Elvish poem, thus suggesting that he knew Bilbo quite well. Weirdly, Frodo and the other Hobbits don't seem to pick up on Aragorn's throwaway remark any more than I have before today. What is this guide to the LOTR you have, and is it good? |
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Post by Confessor on Mar 9, 2021 10:45:36 GMT -5
What is this guide to the LOTR you have, and is it good? It's the Reader's Companion to The Lord of the Rings by Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull. I only got it a week or two ago. I posted about it about 10 posts before this one. So far, I'm loving it -- it's fascinating. |
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