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Post by thwhtguardian on Mar 10, 2021 7:41:54 GMT -5
I dunno...to me, the words "Bilbo must have translated it. I never knew that." -- especially that last sentence -- definitely suggest that Aragorn actually knew Bilbo, rather than had heard of him via Gandalf or whoever. Otherwise he'd have said, "I hadn't heard that" or "I hadn't been told that." Yes, it's still possible that Aragorn only knows of Bilbo, rather than knows him personally, but then I don't see why he would expect to have such an intimate knowlege of the translations he did as a hobby? Aragorn being surprised to hear of that implies a level of intimacy or friendship with Bilbo, not just a third-party connection to him. It can indeed be read that way, and later in the book Bilbo does say that Aragorn spoke to him about the ring and stuff. He calls him "the Dunadan", so they're not that close, but... you're right, they do know each other! See, I read the way he called him the Dunadan and the descriptions of their time spent writing together as they were close friends. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 3, 2021 6:30:29 GMT -5
Today I learned that not only was there a Russian made for TV adaptation of Lord of the Rings...but that it also included my favorite character: Tom Bombadil  I haven't looked at the videos of it uploaded to youtube but apparently they're there for the taking. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 1:11:29 GMT -5
So I saw an article today that Amazon is spending $465 million on just the first season of the LOTR show. To put that in perspective, Peter Jackson spent only $281 million for all 3 LOTR movies combined (pre-advertising cost, i.e. that number doesn't include marketing budgets).
-M
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 17, 2021 8:21:34 GMT -5
So I saw an article today that Amazon is spending $465 million on just the first season of the LOTR show. To put that in perspective, Peter Jackson spent only $281 million for all 3 LOTR movies combined (pre-advertising cost, i.e. that number doesn't include marketing budgets). -M Lots of props made of mithril? |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 4, 2021 8:03:55 GMT -5
I treated myself and ordered a copy of the Reader's Companion to The Lord of the Rings by Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull earlier this week.  I received the book yesterday, and have already motored through the notes concerned with the writing of the book and the Prologue. Tonight I'll start reading the notes for Chapter 1: A Long-Expected Party. To be clear, this isn't an annotated version of the book: it already assumes you own a copy of LOTRs with which to cross-reference against this Reader's Guide. It's a really fascinating read, chock full of revealing information about Tolkien's intent, his influences, and how certain scenes in the book changed between the earliest drafts and the published version. It also gives definitions for words that might be archaic to a modern reader, which isn't much use to me, as I know exactly what Tolkien means when he uses out of date colloquial turns of phrase. But then again, I'm from the same geographical area as Tolkien and I had Grandparents and Great-grandparents as a child who were of the same generation as him. So, many of his archaic turns of phrase are quite familiar to me. If you're an 18 year old reader from the U.S. or a non-English speaking country, I'm sure that explanations for these terms are invaluable. I'm planning to power through the notes for the first 8 chapters in the coming week, to catch up to where I am in my current leisurely re-read of LOTRs, and from there on I'll be reading Tolkien's book, with this guide close at hand to consult. Has anyone else here got this book? I really recommend it if you're a hardcore fan.   You convinced me! I bought the book after reading your review recently, and it is indeed very informative and far less dry than I'd have expected. One thing mentioned in the book had never struck me before: when the Black Riders were chasing Frodo, he conceivably might have have used the ring to control them, had he had the willpower and the disposition. I had honestly never considered that the ring might be useful for anything else than becoming invisible or giving Dark Lords all their power back! |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on May 4, 2021 9:35:26 GMT -5
I treated myself and ordered a copy of the Reader's Companion to The Lord of the Rings by Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull earlier this week. I received the book yesterday, and have already motored through the notes concerned with the writing of the book and the Prologue. Tonight I'll start reading the notes for Chapter 1: A Long-Expected Party. To be clear, this isn't an annotated version of the book: it already assumes you own a copy of LOTRs with which to cross-reference against this Reader's Guide. It's a really fascinating read, chock full of revealing information about Tolkien's intent, his influences, and how certain scenes in the book changed between the earliest drafts and the published version. It also gives definitions for words that might be archaic to a modern reader, which isn't much use to me, as I know exactly what Tolkien means when he uses out of date colloquial turns of phrase. But then again, I'm from the same geographical area as Tolkien and I had Grandparents and Great-grandparents as a child who were of the same generation as him. So, many of his archaic turns of phrase are quite familiar to me. If you're an 18 year old reader from the U.S. or a non-English speaking country, I'm sure that explanations for these terms are invaluable. I'm planning to power through the notes for the first 8 chapters in the coming week, to catch up to where I am in my current leisurely re-read of LOTRs, and from there on I'll be reading Tolkien's book, with this guide close at hand to consult. Has anyone else here got this book? I really recommend it if you're a hardcore fan. You convinced me! I bought the book after reading your review recently, and it is indeed very informative and far less dry than I'd have expected. One thing mentioned in the book had never struck me before: when the Black Riders were chasing Frodo, he conceivably might have have used the ring to control them, had he had the willpower and the disposition. I had honestly never considered that the ring might be useful for anything else than becoming invincible or giving Dark Lords all their power back! Yeah, I thought that was a fascinating idea myself. And like you, not one that had ever occurred to me. |
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Post by berkley on May 5, 2021 15:42:55 GMT -5
I thought the idea that the ring could possibly be used as a weapon in the right hands was always a big part of the story - wasn't that the temptation of Boromir, in part? And wasn't that also the test Galadriel passed, refusing to take possession of the ring and wield it herself? In fact, it's implied that had she done so she might have become a great power of Sauron-like levels, or so my memory has it. Can't recall how much of that is in the movies, but it felt like an important scene in the book..
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Post by sunofdarkchild on May 6, 2021 3:26:53 GMT -5
I thought the idea that the ring could possibly be used as a weapon in the right hands was always a big part of the story - wasn't that the temptation of Boromir, in part? And wasn't that also the test Galadriel passed, refusing to take possession of the ring and wield it herself? In fact, it's implied that had she done so she might have become a great power of Sauron-like levels, or so my memory has it. Can't recall how much of that is in the movies, but it felt like an important scene in the book.. Yeah. It was basically stated that Galadriel and Gandalf could have used the ring to great effect, only they would have been corrupted from using it. One of Sauron's great fears was that the ring would be used against him, which at one point was Saruman's plan as well. The ring corrupting the wielder wouldn't help him if that same wielder defeated him. He also assumed Aragorn had defeated his forces at Minas Tirith using the ring and that Aragorn was challenging him at the Black Gate trusting in the ring to guarantee victory again. That actually demonstrated the ring's limits as Sauron knew the odds against Aragorn were too great even with the ring's help. In the movies it seems to be implied that only someone like Galadriel and Gandalf who already have immense magical powers could use the ring at all. Everyone else would just turn invisible. So Aragorn would not have benefited by having the ring at Minas Tirith. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 6, 2021 5:51:16 GMT -5
I thought the idea that the ring could possibly be used as a weapon in the right hands was always a big part of the story - wasn't that the temptation of Boromir, in part? And wasn't that also the test Galadriel passed, refusing to take possession of the ring and wield it herself? In fact, it's implied that had she done so she might have become a great power of Sauron-like levels, or so my memory has it. Can't recall how much of that is in the movies, but it felt like an important scene in the book.. Absolutely, the ring was clearly presented as an object that entities like Gandalf and Galadriel could have used as a weapon; but like a nuclear bomb in the hand of a Roman soldier, I never got the impression that ordinary people (those without magics of their own) could do much of anything with it. Smeagol, Bilbo and Frodo never got the ring to do anything, as even their turning invisible when wearing it was an involuntary effect. Boromir knew the ring could be a great asset, but I doubt he would have known what to do with it either. I got the impression that he trusted Denethor to handle that part, but even then I doubt it would have done much good: the ring certainly didn't do much for Isildur when he got his hands on it. |
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Post by The Cheat on May 6, 2021 14:12:31 GMT -5
Remind me why Sauron put so much of his power into a ring in the first place?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 6, 2021 20:09:48 GMT -5
Remind me why Sauron put so much of his power into a ring in the first place? no more, effendi! |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
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Post by Confessor on May 6, 2021 22:10:47 GMT -5
I thought the idea that the ring could possibly be used as a weapon in the right hands was always a big part of the story - wasn't that the temptation of Boromir, in part? And wasn't that also the test Galadriel passed, refusing to take possession of the ring and wield it herself? In fact, it's implied that had she done so she might have become a great power of Sauron-like levels, or so my memory has it. Can't recall how much of that is in the movies, but it felt like an important scene in the book.. Yes, it absolutely was, but Frodo specifically using it to control the Nazgul, while he was still in the Shire, is what had never occurred to me. |
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Post by berkley on May 9, 2021 17:10:49 GMT -5
I thought the idea that the ring could possibly be used as a weapon in the right hands was always a big part of the story - wasn't that the temptation of Boromir, in part? And wasn't that also the test Galadriel passed, refusing to take possession of the ring and wield it herself? In fact, it's implied that had she done so she might have become a great power of Sauron-like levels, or so my memory has it. Can't recall how much of that is in the movies, but it felt like an important scene in the book.. Yes, it absolutely was, but Frodo specifically using it to control the Nazgul, while he was still in the Shire, is what had never occurred to me. Oh, I see. I thnk I just took it for granted that the powers of the Ring couldn't be mastered by just anyone or without long, intensive effort. More or less as RR was saying. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 3, 2021 10:46:46 GMT -5
A point I saw raised on Youtube recently: why did the Balrog go after the Fellowship?
The fellow had remained buried deep, deep under Caradhras for thousands of years, after retreating to the depths of the Earth to escape the final battle between the Valar and Morgoth. He had stayed there, apparently content to just sleep, until disturbed by the Dwarves of the Moria. He had then gotten rid of them, but after that had remained underground.
The balrog was not working for Sauron; otherwise he'd probably have seen some action during the second age, and would have helped his boss topple the power of Gondor after the latter's return. Besides, a balrog is a fallen Maia and he might have seen Sauron as a cousin, not necessarily his master (the way he'd have looked at Melkor).
Maybe he was territorial and didn't want any fellowship trespassing on his lawn; however, he seemed to tolerate orcs just fine.
Was it Gandalf's presence that triggered him? Gandalf is another Maia, and therefore an actual threat... but had the balrog just stayed put, Gandalf wouldn't even have known he was there.
Was it the ring that called to him? Well, the ring was a fairly new invention, as far as the balrog's point of view went, and although it was a powerful tool no matter what era one is in, the balrog didn't seem to be to keen on expanding his domain; he had stayed under the Moria for a very long time, even after the dwarves were eliminated.
Personally, I veer toward the grouchy old man hypothesis. The creature was content in its subterraean domain, where I expect orcs and the like were really careful not to bother him; the arrival of the fellowship (or rather the noisy clash it generated) prompted him to go yell at the intruders, and when he saw that he faced another Maia he just attacked without reflecting that it might have been easier (and wiser, in hindsight) to just let the nine go.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2021 11:07:43 GMT -5
A point I saw raised on Youtube recently: why did the Balrog go after the Fellowship? The fellow had remained buried deep, deep under Caradhras for thousands of years, after retreating to the depths of the Earth to escape the final battle between the Valar and Morgoth. He had stayed there, apparently content to just sleep, until disturbed by the Dwarves of the Moria. He had then gotten rid of them, but after that had remained underground. The balrog was not working for Sauron; otherwise he'd probably have seen some action during the second age, and would have helped his boss topple the power of Gondor after the latter's return. Besides, a balrog is a fallen Maia and he might have seen Sauron as a cousin, not necessarily his master (the way he'd have looked at Melkor). Maybe he was territorial and didn't want any fellowship trespassing on his lawn; however, he seemed to tolerate orcs just fine. Was it Gandalf's presence that triggered him? Gandalf is another Maia, and therefore an actual threat... but had the balrog just stayed put, Gandalf wouldn't even have known he was there. Was it the ring that called to him? Well, the ring was a fairly new invention, as far as the balrog's point of view went, and although it was a powerful tool no matter what era one is in, the balrog didn't seem to be to keen on expanding his domain; he had stayed under the Moria for a very long time, even after the dwarves were eliminated. Personally, I veer toward the grouchy old man hypothesis. The creature was content in its subterraean domain, where I expect orcs and the like were really careful not to bother him; the arrival of the fellowship (or rather the noisy clash it generated) prompted him to go yell at the intruders, and when he saw that he faced another Maia he just attacked without reflecting that it might have been easier (and wiser, in hindsight) to just let the nine go. Not sure, but if the Balrog was able to sense the presence of another Maia in the mines in the person of Gandalf, then the opposite is likely true as well and Gandalf could sense the Balrog's presence, and even if Gandalf wasn't going to seek him out then because he was more concerned with getting the Fellowship undetected to their destination and had bigger concerns with the growing shadow, and so was willing to let sleeping dogs lie for the moment so to speak, it still meant the Balrog's hiding place was compromised and so he chose to try to destroy the intruders now rather than risk their leaving and revealing his hiding space to others. This only makes sense if the Maia can sense each others presence, and the Balrog was aware of the presence of another Maia, but that doesn't seem an unreasonable proposition. At least that's the theory I would go with. -M |
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