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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 15:35:47 GMT -5
To me, he's too complicated of a character to begin with and the wrath that he occurred in the Avengers in the early issues and his time with the Invaders did confused a lot of readers and his hatred towards the human race did not bode to well for a lot of readers. Marvel did a grave injustice going from "heel" to "face" (wrestling terms) so many times that he did not have any sense of conformity that anyone can follow. I loved his presence on the Invaders and at the same time disliked his presence in the Avengers of where the Hulk and Sub Mariner (in cursed alliance) battled the Avengers. It's bothers me so much and Marvel did a grave injustice for not stabilizing this character that I find more fascinating than DC's Aquaman. He was put on the Surface World so much and never once established his Water World and that's bothers me so much that I've just can't understand the Editors of Marvel Comics doing this to him; and one of the founding characters of Timely/Marvel Comics that they just can't makeup their mind about it.
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Post by String on Jan 6, 2018 15:42:49 GMT -5
Totally didn't fit in the mutant side, even though they're saying he's a mutant I guess. Well, he's now being listed as a mutant, with Marvel having been trying to find him a place within the X-titles over the last decade or so. I don't know if that qualifies as a retcon or not, but it kinda does make sense given his background, abilities, and appearance (little wings on his ankles after all). I've always been more intrigued by Namor, his righteous indignation and kingly rage seeming more interesting to me than Arthur Curry's bland nature (especially as promoted on the Superfriends cartoon). But his lack of a stable position within the MU doesn't help his cause either. His rule of Atlantis always seems tenuous or ill-defined at best and his various memberships includes nearly every major team in the MU. A character with this type of history within the medium deserves better than this. As for series, I quite enjoyed the Saga of the Sub-Mariner mini by Roy & Dann Thomas with Rich Buckler on art. It details the past and history of Namor.  |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 6, 2018 15:54:54 GMT -5
I always thought Namor was a good bad guy. He was never better than when he fought the FF or Avengers at the beginning of the Silver Age. He lost some of his Omph when he was made a hero.
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Post by muckyshoe on Jan 6, 2018 15:59:18 GMT -5
His potential was highlighted in the Terror Beyond episode of Justice League!
Namor needs to be in the Defenders permanently. As good as the tv Defenders want to be, they don't have the angst that the Big Four have (or the Omega level powers to be frightening enough to sit up and pay attention to their anger).
Like it or not being the anti-team is a great bit of characterisation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 16:30:50 GMT -5
Ironically for being a loner & abrasive Namor has been on most of Marvel's teams...The Invaders, The Avengers, The Defenders, X-Men (?).
Has anyone else been on that many teams?
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Post by Duragizer on Jan 6, 2018 16:50:46 GMT -5
Personally, I was never drawn to Namor because I never found him visually interesting. I was all about aesthetics as a kid, and a guy with pointy ears and winged feet in a green speedo just didn't catch my eye.
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Post by badwolf on Jan 6, 2018 18:07:22 GMT -5
He's hostile and arrogant and always the team jerk/hothead (when he's on a team.) The only time I ever liked him was in Byrne's series.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 6, 2018 18:16:08 GMT -5
Ironically for being a loner & abrasive Namor has been on most of Marvel's teams...The Invaders, The Avengers, The Defenders, X-Men (?). Has anyone else been on that many teams? Good question. Nothing extensive, but Cap was a member of The Invaders, The Avengers, and if you count his post-WW2 replacements, The All-Winners Squad. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 6, 2018 18:21:32 GMT -5
He's hostile and arrogant and always the team jerk/hothead (when he's on a team.) The only time I ever liked him was in Byrne's series. It's funny that Byrne explained his bad behavior as a reaction to the oxygen rich air. He was given shots and he wasn't an @$$hole anymore. At least until Bryne left the book.  |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 6, 2018 19:12:57 GMT -5
Ironically for being a loner & abrasive Namor has been on most of Marvel's teams...The Invaders, The Avengers, The Defenders, X-Men (?). Has anyone else been on that many teams? Sub-Mariner was an X-man? I missed that. I think it's fair to count Subby as an All-Winners member, as well. Beast was an X-man, Avenger, Defender, and on X-Force. The Angel and Iceman were the same, replacing Avengers with Champions. (And one of them might have been an Avenger lately, what do I know?) Edit: She-Hulk was an Avenger, a Fantastic Four member, a member of the '90s version of the Heroes for Hire and on a short-lived Lady Liberator team circa 2009. Edit 2: Medusa was a member of the Frightful Four, the Fantastic Four, the Inhumans, and A-Force. (Written by Kelly Thompson, my old blog-mate!) |
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Post by MWGallaher on Jan 6, 2018 19:45:29 GMT -5
I think the simplest answer is that out of all the Marvel characters in the 1960's, Namor had the least interesting costume. Mr. Spock in briefs. It's hard to compete with all the other colorful characters when you're just a guy in a swimsuit.
I was 7 when the Marvel cartoons started airing, and I remember that I wasn't the least bit interested in the Sub-Mariner episodes, because of the lack of visual appeal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 20:04:27 GMT -5
I think the simplest answer is that out of all the Marvel characters in the 1960's, Namor had the least interesting costume. Mr. Spock in briefs. It's hard to compete with all the other colorful characters when you're just a guy in a swimsuit. I was 7 when the Marvel cartoons started airing, and I remember that I wasn't the least bit interested in the Sub-Mariner episodes, because of the lack of visual appeal. I agree. I liked his black costume:
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jan 6, 2018 21:40:51 GMT -5
I guess I don't quite agree with the premise. How much more popular could he be?
He was the last of the Timely heroes to have his book cancelled, and he was the first to be revived. He brought something great to every title he appeared in, whether it was the FF, Avengers, X-Men, Daredevil (#7 in particular), The Defenders, Invaders, etc. Of course, his uneasy alliances with the usually solitary Dr. Doom are legendary.
He was among the few heroes to represent Marvel on the 1966 cartoon series, lackluster though it was, a full year before Spider-Man. Though some may poke fun at his minimalist costume, the character still appears today in a form nearly identical to his creator's original design.
He has history with nearly every corner of the MU, but his emotional connection with Sue Richards is among the most interesting and enduring relationships in the entire canon. He can function as both hero and villain, and something in between.
Here we are nearly 80 years on still talking about him with a level of detail that suggests wide and varied familiarity. It seems he's just about as popular as I'd expect from such a terrific concept.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jan 6, 2018 22:19:24 GMT -5
I think it's fair to count Subby as an All-Winners member, as well. I suppose we have to include The Order and The Illuminati also, two groups that failed to thrill me.  |
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 6, 2018 23:52:27 GMT -5
I guess I don't quite agree with the premise. How much more popular could he be? He was the last of the Timely heroes to have his book cancelled, and he was the first to be revived. He brought something great to every title he appeared in, whether it was the FF, Avengers, X-Men, Daredevil (#7 in particular), The Defenders, Invaders, etc. Of course, his uneasy alliances with the usually solitary Dr. Doom are legendary. He was among the few heroes to represent Marvel on the 1966 cartoon series, lackluster though it was, a full year before Spider-Man. Though some may poke fun at his minimalist costume, the character still appears today in a form nearly identical to his creator's original design. He has history with nearly every corner of the MU, but his emotional connection with Sue Richards is among the most interesting and enduring relationships in the entire canon. He can function as both hero and villain, and something in between. Here we are nearly 80 years on still talking about him with a level of detail that suggests wide and varied familiarity. It seems he's just about as popular as I'd expect from such a terrific concept. Interesting way to look at it, but I think some might question Namor's lack of that bigger character magnetism when compared to the success of another Golden Age hero revived not long after: Captain America. Cap moved from WW2 sensation, managed to weather the "commie smasher" period of his final Golden Age period, and eventually end up as one of the pillars of Marvel's history. Unlike Namor, Cap's return/retcon was a natural fit for adventure, tragedy, espionage, and any of the growing stories of 60s Silver Age comics. For some reason, none of those storytelling strengths lent themselves to Namor, and his undersea squabbles with Attuma, Krang, ranting at the surface dwellers, or batting his eyelashes at Sue Richards. So, despite fans still talking abut him, its not exactly because he's been a success able to successfully transcend comic business fads, trends, etc. to be a truly great character. |
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