|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 27, 2018 20:12:21 GMT -5
Counterpoint: Neither Frank Miller's first run* nor Mark Waid's run do much for me. I'm trying to remember stuff... well, anything really about Waid's Daredevil... did it have the Legion of Monsters in it? HOWEVER, I am currently reading Essential Daredevil 6, and quite enjoying Marv Wolfman/Bob Brown and (especially) Klaus Janson's stuff. * It's a little more horror tinged and creepy with Death Stalker, Copperhead and El Jaguar than your traditional super book. * There's solid work done with the supporting cast (although Matt Murdock himself is a little bit of a ciper.) * There are some spectacularly great fight scenes that use setting in a way that few other comics do. It sticks DD in a circus or a suburban home or an energy plant and makes interaction with environment and the villain at the same time. Just great stuff. There are also several writer/editor error problems... Issue 128 has TWO beyond basic storytelling $%^&-ups, the kind of things that an even half-way awake editor would have caught. But the Wolfman/Brown/Janson DD's got a strong sense of mood, some creative plotting (Gawd I love the first Torpedo story), and some strong - if sadly forgotten - villains. * I quite like Man Without Fear and Born Again is as good as anything to come out of Marvel comics ever. |
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Jan 27, 2018 21:37:27 GMT -5
Counterpoint: Neither Frank Miller's first run* nor Mark Waid's run do much for me. I'm trying to remember stuff... well, anything really about Waid's Daredevil... did it have the Legion of Monsters in it? HOWEVER, I am currently reading Essential Daredevil 6, and quite enjoying Marv Wolfman/Bob Brown and (especially) Klaus Janson's stuff. * It's a little more horror tinged and creepy with Death Stalker, Copperhead and El Jaguar than your traditional super book. * There's solid work done with the supporting cast (although Matt Murdock himself is a little bit of a ciper.) * There are some spectacularly great fight scenes that use setting in a way that few other comics do. It sticks DD in a circus or a suburban home or an energy plant and makes interaction with environment and the villain at the same time. Just great stuff. There are also several writer/editor error problems... Issue 128 has TWO beyond basic storytelling $%^&-ups, the kind of things that an even half-way awake editor would have caught. But the Wolfman/Brown/Janson DD's got a strong sense of mood, some creative plotting (Gawd I love the first Torpedo story), and some strong - if sadly forgotten - villains. * I quite like Man Without Fear and Born Again is as good as anything to come out of Marvel comics ever. By Miller's first DD run do you mean the whole thing from #158 to #191, or whatever it was, and the second run is everything else? |
|
|
|
Post by sabongero on Feb 13, 2018 11:43:33 GMT -5
Gene the Dean Colan comes along with #20-49 and Stan and he create a fairly interesting run of stories setting the main tone and style for DD in the following years. The gorgeous Colan art is the main draw though for the main years of ol' Hornead to me! But there are some good stories along the way. When Roy Thomas comes along that marks a turn in story towards more melodrama and soap opera(ish) contemporary storytelling from there on. If I can just ask, which of those Gene Colan issues are your favorite stories? |
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Feb 13, 2018 11:53:33 GMT -5
I'll second (or third, etc.) the runs by Denny O'Neil, Kevin Smith and David Mack.
|
|
|
|
Post by sabongero on Feb 13, 2018 12:03:42 GMT -5
I'll second (or third, etc.) the runs by Denny O'Neil, Kevin Smith and David Mack. Hi Badwolf. Can I just ask you what was the appeal of Denny O'Neil's DD stories to you? Thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Feb 13, 2018 12:10:41 GMT -5
I'll second (or third, etc.) the runs by Denny O'Neil, Kevin Smith and David Mack. Hi Badwolf. Can I just ask you what was the appeal of Denny O'Neil's DD stories to you? Thanks. I like the Wolverine issue and the story arc of DD traveling to Japan to look for Bullseye. I admit I haven't read anything after #200 in that run, but I tend to like O'Neil's work in general. |
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Feb 13, 2018 13:08:10 GMT -5
Gene the Dean Colan comes along with #20-49 and Stan and he create a fairly interesting run of stories setting the main tone and style for DD in the following years. The gorgeous Colan art is the main draw though for the main years of ol' Hornead to me! But there are some good stories along the way. When Roy Thomas comes along that marks a turn in story towards more melodrama and soap opera(ish) contemporary storytelling from there on. If I can just ask, which of those Gene Colan issues are your favorite stories? My personal Favorites during this time: DD #23 versus the Gladiator, #26/27 with Stilt Man and Masked Marauder, #31/31 with Hyde and Cobra, #32 through 46, #47 is a classic, #48 another Stilt Man battle! |
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Feb 13, 2018 13:52:46 GMT -5
If I can just ask, which of those Gene Colan issues are your favorite stories? My personal Favorites during this time: DD #23 versus the Gladiator, #26/27 with Stilt Man and Masked Marauder, #31/31 with Hyde and Cobra, #32 through 46, #47 is a classic, #48 another Stilt Man battle! When I was first getting into comics (mid-1970s), I loved Daredevil (my first issue was #126) and the back issues were SO CHEAP that I had bunches and bunches of 1960s Daredevil comics for a dollar or less. I, for one, love the energetic goofiness of the Mike Murdock issues. I've been thinking of re-reading the Mike Murdock issues. It starts with #25 and ends with #41 where he kills off the Mike Murdock identity. So that's what I would suggest. And then throw in the next five issues because Daredevil's struggle with the Jester is great! So that's #25 to #46. You'll encounter the Leap Frog, Stilt-Man, the Masked Marauder, dumb generic aliens, dumb generic gangsters, the Cobra, Mr. Hyde, Thor, the Beetle, the Trapster, the Invisible Girl, Dr. Doom (one of the better Silver Age Dr. Doom appearances outside of the FF comic), the Exterminator, Bird-Man, Ape-Man, Cat-Man, the Jester and Captain America. Some AWE-INSPIRING SILVER AGE SILLINES, with great Gene Colan art, inked by numerous Marvel Bullpen inkers (I think it's mostly John Tartaglione). |
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Feb 13, 2018 14:25:33 GMT -5
I, also, enjoyed Marv Wolfman and Bob brown (starting with #124, with Len Wein giving a plot assist). Wolfman brought in a lot of lively villains to the mix, especially Bullseye, who debuted in his run. Brown isn't the best known artist out there; but, he is a really good storyteller and he handled the action well. Under their rein you get stories about the Jester messing with DD's head and an election, the Torpedo (including the heroic version) and the afore-mentioned Bullseye.
I also quite like Gil Kane and Jim Shooter's run, prior to Roger McKenzie and Frank Miller taking over. There's a lot of really good psychological stuff going on there, as Heather Glenn's father is manipulated into criminal actions, including kidnapping, by Killgrave, the Purple Man. Kane co-plotted the material, with Shooter scripting. It's got a harder edge than previous material, laying the groundwork for McKenzie and Miller. Shooter had been scripting, over other's plots, for a bit; but, he and Kane take over at 146, which features Vullseye confronting a wounded DD, on live tv (in a studio). That run would also reveal to Heather that Matt is DD.
Also worth checking out is Tony Isabella's storyline, where DD battles a new HYDRA cell, run by Silvermane. It gets a preview, under Gerry Conway, in 118, then gets underway in 119, under Isabella. Nick Fury and SHIELD, with Daredevil, rescue Foggy Nelson from a HYDRA attack, and Fury offers him a position on the SHIELD board. HYDRA continues their efforts to get to Nelson, with different divisions, under the command of different gimmick villains.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Feb 13, 2018 21:10:37 GMT -5
I, also, enjoyed Marv Wolfman and Bob brown (starting with #124, with Len Wein giving a plot assist). Wolfman brought in a lot of lively villains to the mix, especially Bullseye, who debuted in his run. Brown isn't the best known artist out there; but, he is a really good storyteller and he handled the action well. Under their rein you get stories about the Jester messing with DD's head and an election, the Torpedo (including the heroic version) and the afore-mentioned Bullseye. I also quite like Gil Kane and Jim Shooter's run, prior to Roger McKenzie and Frank Miller taking over. There's a lot of really good psychological stuff going on there, as Heather Glenn's father is manipulated into criminal actions, including kidnapping, by Killgrave, the Purple Man. Kane co-plotted the material, with Shooter scripting. It's got a harder edge than previous material, laying the groundwork for McKenzie and Miller. Shooter had been scripting, over other's plots, for a bit; but, he and Kane take over at 146, which features Vullseye confronting a wounded DD, on live tv (in a studio). That run would also reveal to Heather that Matt is DD. Also worth checking out is Tony Isabella's storyline, where DD battles a new HYDRA cell, run by Silvermane. It gets a preview, under Gerry Conway, in 118, then gets underway in 119, under Isabella. Nick Fury and SHIELD, with Daredevil, rescue Foggy Nelson from a HYDRA attack, and Fury offers him a position on the SHIELD board. HYDRA continues their efforts to get to Nelson, with different divisions, under the command of different gimmick villains. I'm glad to see so much love for pre-Miller Daredevil. I see A LOT of enthusiastic Miller fans being very dismissive of everything that happened before DD #158, and I always wonder "Um, did you ever actually read any of those issues?"
I think Miller's Daredevil is great! My favorite DD storyline EVER is DD #169 to #172. But there were A LOT of good stories before Miller. (And a lot of bad ones too; that period from about #54 to about #80 gives me the shivers just thinking about it.)
|
|
|
|
Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 14, 2018 4:20:35 GMT -5
Yeah, although I'm a big fan of the original Miller run on Daredevil (I picked up #158 off the spinner racks and immediately became a regular reader), I don't think I'm dismissive of what came before: most of what I've read, either by picking up random issues or via reprints, I've liked.
One thing that annoys me, though, is that everyone seems to overlook the fact that the first roughly dozen issues of the "Miller run" were in fact written by Roger McKenzie - and there's some pretty good stories in there. They got me hooked on DD.
|
|
|
|
Post by rom on Feb 14, 2018 11:33:52 GMT -5
I'm a huge fan of the initial Frank Miller run on Daredevil. These comics got me into the character - they came out when I was a kid, and I still consider them iconic & classic. The Kingpin, Bullseye, The Hand & Stick, Elektra Natchios, The Punisher & the drug abuse issues, the storyline involving DD finding Vanessa (the Kingpin's wife) living underground, etc. were all amazing.
However, even though I liked Miller's entire run, #181 was a true work of art - and is my favorite individual comic book of all time. Incredible writing & story. The scene when Elektra gets killed is extremely sad/poignant, and the later scene when DD drops Bullseye is completely understandable (especially since Bullseye was trying to stab him), but still somewhat unexpected - the first time you read this. And, the fact that Elektra is resurrected in a later comic doesn't take away from her death here.
However, we shouldn't forget the DD comics that came after Miller's first run and right before Born Again, i.e. DD #192 - #226. Most of these issues have not been collected. These storylines included: DD & Woverine in Japan, the re-match with Bullseye in #200, the entire Micah Synn storyline, the tragic death of Heather Glenn, DD's fight with the Vulture, etc. Great stuff here - many of these issues have decent art by Klaus Janson & later David Mazzuchelli. I would definitely like to see a Trade collecting all of these. There was a sub-par & thin trade that came out circa 2002 called "Love's Labor Lost" that collected some of the issues, but not all of them.
Last but definitely not least, the Miller/Mazuchelli Born Again storyline is the best DD storyline of all time - incredible.
|
|
|
|
Post by sabongero on Sept 4, 2019 11:13:06 GMT -5
I just wanted to bump this up in case there are new members that can suggest or add information. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Sept 4, 2019 13:56:45 GMT -5
I liked Daredevil #6-11 with Wally Wood and Bob Powell art, the new all red costume debuted, there was a newspaper headlines theme to a couple of covers, the Ani-Men, Stilt Man, Sub-Mariner and Mr. Fear... mostly just the great art remains in memory. Then #12-19 was by John Romita with Ka-Zar and Spider-Man appearing. The Gene Colan era started with The Owl as a villain in #20. I left off somewhere in the #30s in my collecting (then when I bought #157 and saw Colan I thought maybe he'd been doing it for all that time). If I could read a run now (I started when Miller was the regular artist, #162-163 being the first I bought new)... I'd probably go for the ones with the Black Widow co-billed. From the mid #30s to #138 are all a complete mystery to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by sabongero on Sept 4, 2019 14:06:24 GMT -5
I liked Daredevil #6-11 with Wally Wood and Bob Powell art, the new all red costume debuted, there was a newspaper headlines theme to a couple of covers, the Ani-Men, Stilt Man, Sub-Mariner and Mr. Fear... mostly just the great art remains in memory. Then #12-19 was by John Romita with Ka-Zar and Spider-Man appearing. The Gene Colan era started with The Owl as a villain in #20. I left off somewhere in the #30s in my collecting (then when I bought #157 and saw Colan I thought maybe he'd been doing it for all that time). If I could read a run now (I started when Miller was the regular artist, #162-163 being the first I bought new)... I'd probably go for the ones with the Black Widow co-billed. From the mid #30s to #138 are all a complete mystery to me.This piqued my curiosity. I wonder how the issues were portrayed, or better yet, what type of stories were written. Were they more like soap opera style from issue to issue. That would make it interesting for a while. |
|
