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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 14, 2018 18:42:51 GMT -5
Yes, there's an interview with Cockrum in Comic Book Artist #6; there's also a lengthy joint interview with him and Mike Grell in Back Issue #14, which is dedicated to the Legion of Superheroes. I assumed so; but, hadn't had a chance to look through my collection. Amazing Heroes was one of the better sources for indie comics features (as part of Fantagraphics), apart from The Comics Journal (a part of Fantagraphics). AH didn't insult the fans, as much (proving that Gary Groth was woking both sides of the fence). AH would cover stuff like Futurians, while TCJ would deride something like that as derivative, while championing some semi-autobiographical whining. Fantagraphics took the money either way. Many of those whining semi-autobio comics were good; but, so were many of the adventure books that AH featured. I learned to tune out the noise in TCJ and decide for myself. TCJ was good for steering me to things that I didn't hear about in more mainstream press or Advance or Previews, while Amazing heroes often had a bit more depth to the features and gave more space to the indies than CBG or Comics Scene (relatively). Comics Interview was hit and miss. They interviewed people who you didn't see elsewhere (like Leslie Zahler, colorist on American Flagg and one-time Mrs Chaykin); but, the interviews weren't quite as in-depth as TCJ. Issue 50 had a nice, long one with George Perez, that covered a lot of ground (and explained the failure of the JLA/Avengers crossover to make it to press). They also had a great Watchmen issue. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 15, 2018 0:36:29 GMT -5
I have Comics Interview #9, but the Walt Simonson interview/cover feature was a bit lightweight. So was the piece in Amazing Heroes about The Futurians, but luckily Mr. Cockrum went into some of the ideas he had for future development which is what I most wanted to know about as he never got past four regular comic issues after the one Marvel book. Now I know what was supposed to become of Mosquito's sister! Luckily that Amazing Heroes also had a great Dwight Decker article about Supergirl who had just died in Crisis (the only other Amazing Heroes I ever bought, #17, had a Supergirl cover feature). Thanks for the tips about Comic Book Artist and Back Issue! I already had marked Back Issue #84 with a cover feature on Supergirl and #17 on Tigra for 'someday'... someday is tonight I guess.  |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Nov 15, 2018 3:12:08 GMT -5
Yes, there's an interview with Cockrum in Comic Book Artist #6; there's also a lengthy joint interview with him and Mike Grell in Back Issue #14, which is dedicated to the Legion of Superheroes. I assumed so; but, hadn't had a chance to look through my collection. Amazing Heroes was one of the better sources for indie comics features (as part of Fantagraphics), apart from The Comics Journal (a part of Fantagraphics). AH didn't insult the fans, as much (proving that Gary Groth was woking both sides of the fence). AH would cover stuff like Futurians, while TCJ would deride something like that as derivative, while championing some semi-autobiographical whining. Fantagraphics took the money either way. Many of those whining semi-autobio comics were good; but, so were many of the adventure books that AH featured. I learned to tune out the noise in TCJ and decide for myself. TCJ was good for steering me to things that I didn't hear about in more mainstream press or Advance or Previews, while Amazing heroes often had a bit more depth to the features and gave more space to the indies than CBG or Comics Scene (relatively). Ooh. The relationship between Gary Groth and Amazing Heroes is... interesting. I believe his name was on the magazine but he wasn't involved with the editorial side of it at all. " I mostly just ignored it. He basically viewed it as a for-pure-profit enterprise, kind of like Eros comics, or a gateway drug to The Comics Journal and the kind of comics he thought you should be reading. Although he did write for Amazing Heroes occasionally. (The actual editors, Kim Thompson and Mark Waid among them, clearly cared a lot about the material.) And just out of curiosity what specific book that was full of "whining" do you mean? Because, honestly, I suspect you come from a more mainstream POV and are misinterpreting the Journal's general editorial attitude. Obviously there were dozens of writers and dozens of opinions, but the overall editorial viewpoint wasn't anti-superhero and pro-indy comics. It was anti- everything. Groth was a harsh critic and that same attitude was what he looked for in his writers... and they were trained to be negative as a first, second, and third resort unless comics did an exceptional job of winning them over. (They went a little easier on self-produced mini-comics, but that's the only strong bias I could find. They mostly just crapped on everything.) |
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 15, 2018 4:07:10 GMT -5
I assumed so; but, hadn't had a chance to look through my collection. Amazing Heroes was one of the better sources for indie comics features (as part of Fantagraphics), apart from The Comics Journal (a part of Fantagraphics). AH didn't insult the fans, as much (proving that Gary Groth was woking both sides of the fence). AH would cover stuff like Futurians, while TCJ would deride something like that as derivative, while championing some semi-autobiographical whining. Fantagraphics took the money either way. Many of those whining semi-autobio comics were good; but, so were many of the adventure books that AH featured. I learned to tune out the noise in TCJ and decide for myself. TCJ was good for steering me to things that I didn't hear about in more mainstream press or Advance or Previews, while Amazing heroes often had a bit more depth to the features and gave more space to the indies than CBG or Comics Scene (relatively). Ooh. The relationship between Gary Groth and Amazing Heroes is... interesting. I believe his name was on the magazine but he wasn't involved with the editorial side of it at all. " I mostly just ignored it. He basically viewed it as a for-pure-profit enterprise, kind of like Eros comics, or a gateway drug to The Comics Journal and the kind of comics he thought you should be reading. Although he did write for Amazing Heroes occasionally. (The actual editors, Kim Thompson and Mark Waid among them, clearly cared a lot about the material.) And just out of curiosity what specific book that was full of "whining" do you mean? Because, honestly, I suspect you come from a more mainstream POV and are misinterpreting the Journal's general editorial attitude. Obviously there were dozens of writers and dozens of opinions, but the overall editorial viewpoint wasn't anti-superhero and pro-indy comics. It was anti- everything. Groth was a harsh critic and that same attitude was what he looked for in his writers... and they were trained to be negative as a first, second, and third resort unless comics did an exceptional job of winning them over. (They went a little easier on self-produced mini-comics, but that's the only strong bias I could find. They mostly just crapped on everything.) It's a joke. A lot of indie comics were seen as whining, self-absorbed pieces by people who couldn't draw, while superhero comics were arrested adolescent material for aging fanboys who never read literature..... Or so the stereotypes went. I read a pretty broad spectrum of comics, from all genres and companies, self-published to the Big Two, from the whiny, self-indulgent, to the adolescent male power fantasy, and most things in between. Same with comics journalism, though I had a low tolerance for Wizard, in its younger days. Once it matured a bit, I read it sporadically, though never the frequency of TCJ, Comics Interview, Amazing Heroes, CBG, the TwoMorrows mags or Comics Scene (during its relatively short lifespan). On the whole, I liked TCJ, apart from when Groth would go on some personal vendetta, which happened from time to time, and learned to skip a lot of his editorials and get to the interview with P Craig Russell or Ralph Steadman; or the extremely rare Bill Watterson. Mainstream POV? I offer my Other Guys thread as Defense Exhibit A.  |
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Post by beccabear67 on Aug 18, 2019 13:06:17 GMT -5
 Just ran across this old house ad (was it ever run?) for the new Ms. marvel by Dave Cockrum circa 1978... that's Mosquito and Were-Hawk of The Futurians! Does that mean stories with Cockrum involved were planned past the two part lizard people that ran in #20-21? There was a poster of Ms. M and Deathbird by Cockrum, so maybe #22 would've still featured her, but perhaps with inside art as well as the cover by Cockrum? Perhaps he decided he wanted to keep those two for himself this early, but it seems like they would've appeared had he stayed on the comic... of maybe he had heard it might be cancelled? As he went on to work with Chris Claremont on The X-Men again there doesn't seem to have a been a falling out of the team. Also around the exact same time Cockrum's Black Cat was meant to debut in Spider-Woman #9, another thing that didn't happen...  Looks like he was still doing Ms. M's covers well into the future though...  |
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Post by profh0011 on Aug 18, 2019 15:33:24 GMT -5
I have no idea where I reads this, but it was discussed at some length that Jack Kirby moved to California (around 1968 or 69) for health reasons, and would not have been able-- or interested-- in accepting an art director job.
As a result, the entire "art director job offer" story apparently was a TOTAL FABRICATION on someone's part. MANY things in "official Marvel history".... are.
After Goodman sold Marvel to Perfect Film, Kirby spent 3 years trying to get a WRITTEN contract (which he NEVER had before then during the whole of the 1960s) that would guarantee him X number of pages each month, and editorial control of his WRITING. Instead, Perfect Film kept putting him off, refusing to talk to Kirby's lawyer, and then, finally, sending him what he felt was an INSULTING contract and essentially told him, "Sign this, or GET OUT."
At that point, Carmine Infantino offered Kirby EXACTLY what he wanted... and he left for DC, with NO warning at all. He mailed in his final work over a weekend, then informed his boss on the phone he was starting at DC on Monday.
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Post by profh0011 on Aug 18, 2019 15:36:11 GMT -5
During the 90s, I was buying each volume of DC's LEGION ARCHIVES as they came out. I remember so clearly that when they got to the book that would contain Dave Cockrum's entire short run on the series, somebody at the printers SCREWED UP BIG-TIME!!!!!
It was so noticable, it was SO BAD... they they decided, for once, to do the right thing. they did a 2ND PRINTING of it... and offered buyers the chance to TRADE IN the defective copies for the good ones. I DID. But not before taking a few minutes in the store to compare pages side-by-side. OH yeah. The replacement copy was DEFINITELY way better.
I don't know if this sort of thing ever happened before or since then.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 17:07:15 GMT -5
I have no idea where I reads this, but it was discussed at some length that Jack Kirby moved to California (around 1968 or 69) for health reasons, and would not have been able-- or interested-- in accepting an art director job. As a result, the entire "art director job offer" story apparently was a TOTAL FABRICATION on someone's part. MANY things in "official Marvel history".... are. After Goodman sold Marvel to Perfect Film, Kirby spent 3 years trying to get a WRITTEN contract (which he NEVER had before then during the whole of the 1960s) that would guarantee him X number of pages each month, and editorial control of his WRITING. Instead, Perfect Film kept putting him off, refusing to talk to Kirby's lawyer, and then, finally, sending him what he felt was an INSULTING contract and essentially told him, " Sign this, or GET OUT." At that point, Carmine Infantino offered Kirby EXACTLY what he wanted... and he left for DC, with NO warning at all. He mailed in his final work over a weekend, then informed his boss on the phone he was starting at DC on Monday. This is interesting and thanks for posting this. |
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Post by profh0011 on Aug 18, 2019 21:45:48 GMT -5
On the basis of what went on with so many of Marvel's books in the 6 months right after that, I've long had this impression that Kirby's former editor had some kind of a nervous breakdown when he got the news.
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Post by rberman on Aug 19, 2019 0:34:19 GMT -5
On the basis of what went on with so many of Marvel's books in the 6 months right after that, I've long had this impression that Kirby's former editor had some kind of a nervous breakdown when he got the news.  |
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Post by profh0011 on Aug 19, 2019 11:51:34 GMT -5
 for some reason, the following (from a show I rewatched last week) comes to mind... "I'VE GOT YOUR NUMBER!!!"
"Thou CANST! My number is UNLISTED!"
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Post by rberman on Sept 4, 2019 10:57:40 GMT -5
Here's a Cockrum rarity I'd never seen before.  |
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Post by The Captain on Sept 4, 2019 11:47:20 GMT -5
Just ran across this old house ad (was it ever run?) for the new Ms. marvel by Dave Cockrum circa 1978... that's Mosquito and Were-Hawk of The Futurians! Does that mean stories with Cockrum involved were planned past the two part lizard people that ran in #20-21? There was a poster of Ms. M and Deathbird by Cockrum, so maybe #22 would've still featured her, but perhaps with inside art as well as the cover by Cockrum? Perhaps he decided he wanted to keep those two for himself this early, but it seems like they would've appeared had he stayed on the comic... of maybe he had heard it might be cancelled? As he went on to work with Chris Claremont on The X-Men again there doesn't seem to have a been a falling out of the team. Also around the exact same time Cockrum's Black Cat was meant to debut in Spider-Woman #9, another thing that didn't happen... Looks like he was still doing Ms. M's covers well into the future though... Issue #22 has Carol facing off against Deathbird again, and then issue #23 has her fighting the Elementals (who had previously appeared in issues #11-13 as minions of Hecate, the Olympian goddess of witches). Issues #24 and 25 weren't released as originally intended, as the series was abruptly and unexpectedly canceled, but they eventually saw the light of day, being printed in Marvel Super-Heroes v2 #10 and 11. The story in issue #10 has Carol fighting Sabretooth (as the cover above indicates) and then facing off against members of the Hellfire Club as well as the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (including Rogue) in issue #11. Both stories have Claremont scripts and Mike Vosburg art (he had also drawn issues #22 and 23, with co-pencil credit on #22 to Mike Zeck). There is an odd add-on to the end of the story in issue #11, consisting of an extra 10 pages of story (it would seem this may not have been part of the original story, as it wouldn't have been enough for a double-sized anniversary issue, but they may have pared it down for size considerations). Regardless, the coda (drawn by Mike Gustovich) shows Mystique and Destiny discussing killing Carol, then sending Rogue to do the deed, leading to the event where Rogue steals Carol's memories and powers. The last page sums up what happens to Carol and Rogue after that event, including Rogue joining the X-Men and having Xavier help her with her mental issues as well as explaining that Carol eventually became Binary. This last portion of the story is pretty disjointed, as though they were trying to tell the end of Claremont's story while giving some visual representation to what happened between Rogue and Carol, and then basically wrapping it up with a "check out what happens later" page. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Sept 4, 2019 13:38:27 GMT -5
Here's a Cockrum rarity I'd never seen before. I saw that online once while looking for Duffy Vohland. I had one of the smaller earlier issues with Rog 2000 kicking Howard The Duck in the rear in b&w by Byrne, and another with Rog 2000 looking in a mirror that showed the New Doom Patrol's Robotman. There was someone's entire run of the zine in a shop with subscription labels/covers and I'm ashamed I cherry-picked a few out from them, maybe someone had already picked this Cockrum one though already, I was pretty X crazy then and I'm sure I'd have wanted it. There is an odd add-on to the end of the story in issue #11, consisting of an extra 10 pages of story (it would seem this may not have been part of the original story, as it wouldn't have been enough for a double-sized anniversary issue, but they may have pared it down for size considerations). Regardless, the coda (drawn by Mike Gustovich) shows Mystique and Destiny discussing killing Carol, then sending Rogue to do the deed, leading to the event where Rogue steals Carol's memories and powers. The last page sums up what happens to Carol and Rogue after that event, including Rogue joining the X-Men and having Xavier help her with her mental issues as well as explaining that Carol eventually became Binary. This last portion of the story is pretty disjointed, as though they were trying to tell the end of Claremont's story while giving some visual representation to what happened between Rogue and Carol, and then basically wrapping it up with a "check out what happens later" page. Thanks, I was wondering about the second story (I read both online) and how it seemed much later and wondered about the artist too. I had Avengers Annual #10 'back in the day' but it's one I'm not likely to reacquire. |
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Post by rberman on Sept 5, 2019 12:13:57 GMT -5
Cockrum reported that his other design/cover art responsibilities were the reason he left X-Men:  Byrne reported that editorial was orchestrating the transition behind the scenes, rather than Cockrum being the one who asked to be removed from the book: Byrne's speed probably played a role in this transition, since he could keep up if the book went to monthly, which it did. |
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