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Post by driver1980 on Mar 26, 2024 10:23:23 GMT -5
I once saw these listed as superheroes in one book:
Asterix the Gaul Biggles Doctor Who (or, simply The Doctor, if you prefer) The Lone Ranger James Bond The Scarlet Pimpernel The Three Musketeers
And believe it or not, I once saw Paddington Bear list in a superhero guide!
The definition seems wide, eh?
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 26, 2024 10:29:43 GMT -5
I once saw these listed as superheroes in one book: Asterix the Gaul Biggles Doctor Who (or, simply The Doctor, if you prefer) The Lone Ranger James Bond The Scarlet Pimpernel The Three Musketeers And believe it or not, I once saw Paddington Bear list in a superhero guide! The definition seems wide, eh? Dark Paddington went up against Dark Corduroy in the Night of the Blood-Bears crossover event.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Mar 26, 2024 11:28:36 GMT -5
Moreover, there were predecessors but they all were clearly dressed as monsters or circus performers. Lee Falk in the Phantom essentially created the superhero-style costume. Welllllll......that would be down to Ray Moore; but, he was adapting a medieval executioner's costume. Similar ones were also used for jailers in Flash Gordon. Flash did a lot to define superhero couture, too. I grant Alex Raymond's influence on the couture; however, his characters weren't strictly speaking superheroes.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 26, 2024 21:09:35 GMT -5
Welllllll......that would be down to Ray Moore; but, he was adapting a medieval executioner's costume. Similar ones were also used for jailers in Flash Gordon. Flash did a lot to define superhero couture, too. I grant Alex Raymond's influence on the couture; however, his characters weren't strictly speaking superheroes. I beg to differ......Yale graduate and world-renowned polo player screams superhero to me! "Look, on the back of that pony....." "It's a plutocrat!" "It's an heir to the throne!" "No; it's Yale Man!"
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Post by driver1980 on Mar 27, 2024 8:33:34 GMT -5
Dracula is cruel, but this seems wrong: Someone shared this online, I do not know what story it is from.
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 27, 2024 9:09:15 GMT -5
Dracula is cruel, but this seems wrong: Someone shared this online, I do not know what story it is from. It gets crueler.... check out this guy’s plight.
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 28, 2024 7:44:39 GMT -5
Interesting post by Mark Evaner on inkers.
And I think he is right. Not just the ones mentions, but I remember in the Bronze Age when artists inked themselves it looked great, maybe the best they had looked. I think of B Smith, Gulacy, Brunner, Ploog, Golden, Starlin, Cockrum, and older artists like Romita, Sal Buscema and Kane. Then there were the ones that usually inked themselves like Wrightson, Aparo, Simonson, and Chaykin.
There are, of course, some great pencil/ink teams, but I think if it is one's opinion, you can safely say the best inker on an artist is the artist themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2024 7:55:38 GMT -5
Interesting post by Mark Evaner on inkers. And I think he is right. Not just the ones mentions, but I remember in the Bronze Age when artists inked themselves it looked great, maybe the best they had looked. I think of B Smith, Gulacy, Brunner, Ploog, Golden, Starlin, Cockrum, and older artists like Romita, Sal Buscema and Kane. Then there were the ones that usually inked themselves like Wrightson, Aparo, Simonson, and Chaykin. There are, of course, some great pencil/ink teams, but I think you can safely say the best inker on an artist is the artist themselves. Not always the case with the stuff I grew up reading, great inkers often made a difference, like Austin with Byrne on X-Men. And speaking of Kirby, I know we're supposed to worship him, but he wasn't really the greatest artist though I admired him for his "narrative storytelling" ability and overall creativity. The Sinnott inks made FF a much more visually compelling book IMO. Mahlstedt (who never gets credit) definitely made Giffen look better on Legion (something I didn't figure out until really studying it for awhile). Some inkers just seemed to simply "make stuff better" when I was growing up like the aforementioned Austin and guys like Layton. Not every great penciler has the same level of inking skill.
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 28, 2024 8:19:24 GMT -5
Time now for another edition of When Titans Clash...
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 28, 2024 8:29:59 GMT -5
Interesting post by Mark Evaner on inkers. And I think he is right. Not just the ones mentions, but I remember in the Bronze Age when artists inked themselves it looked great, maybe the best they had looked. I think of B Smith, Gulacy, Brunner, Ploog, Golden, Starlin, Cockrum, and older artists like Romita, Sal Buscema and Kane. Then there were the ones that usually inked themselves like Wrightson, Aparo, Simonson, and Chaykin. There are, of course, some great pencil/ink teams, but I think you can safely say the best inker on an artist is the artist themselves. Not always the case with the stuff I grew up reading, great inkers often made a difference, like Austin with Byrne on X-Men. And speaking of Kirby, I know we're supposed to worship him, but he wasn't really the greatest artist though I admired him for his "narrative storytelling" ability and overall creativity. The Sinnott inks made FF a much more visually compelling book IMO. Mahlstedt (who never gets credit) definitely made Giffen look better on Legion (something I didn't figure out until really studying it for awhile). Some inkers just seemed to simply "make stuff better" when I was growing up like the aforementioned Austin and guys like Layton. Not every great penciler has the same level of inking skill. Sure, not always the case, I have said I never liked Don Heck's self inks in the Silver Age. And there are inkers like Palmer and Sinnott who made everyone look good. But I was pointing out that for many artist, not all, their self inking was some of their best work.
Sinnott made the FF look great, But you can see from a few self inked pin ups and posters that if Kirby had self inked, the book would still look great.
Pencils and Inks by Kirby
Leaving Kirby aside, all the others I mentioned make my point I believe.
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Post by jason on Mar 28, 2024 10:09:49 GMT -5
I once saw these listed as superheroes in one book: Asterix the Gaul Biggles Doctor Who (or, simply The Doctor, if you prefer) The Lone Ranger James Bond The Scarlet Pimpernel The Three Musketeers And believe it or not, I once saw Paddington Bear list in a superhero guide! The definition seems wide, eh? Jeff Rovin's Encyclopedia of Supeheroes had Samson in it. Not Mighty Sampson (though both the Gold Key and Hanna Barbera versions of him were in there), but the Biblical Samson. It just seemed weird to have him in there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2024 10:40:21 GMT -5
Not always the case with the stuff I grew up reading, great inkers often made a difference, like Austin with Byrne on X-Men. And speaking of Kirby, I know we're supposed to worship him, but he wasn't really the greatest artist though I admired him for his "narrative storytelling" ability and overall creativity. The Sinnott inks made FF a much more visually compelling book IMO. Mahlstedt (who never gets credit) definitely made Giffen look better on Legion (something I didn't figure out until really studying it for awhile). Some inkers just seemed to simply "make stuff better" when I was growing up like the aforementioned Austin and guys like Layton. Not every great penciler has the same level of inking skill. Sure, not always the case, I have said I never liked Don Heck's self inks in the Silver Age. And there are inkers like Palmer and Sinnott who made everyone look good. But I was pointing out that for many artist, not all, their self inking was some of their best work.
Sinnott made the FF look great, But you can see from a few self inked pin ups and posters that if Kirby had self inked, the book would still look great.
Pencils and Inks by Kirby
Leaving Kirby aside, all the others I mentioned make my point I believe. Yeah, but the big "pin-up" shot is never fair, that's always like the best work! In all seriousness, I get your point and I understand what you are saying about the list you mentioned, it was the last comment "I think you can safely say the best inker on an artist is the artist themselves" which feels like a more comprehensive statement.
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 28, 2024 12:59:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I worded that poorly. This is always a subjective discussion about "best inker". What I meant is that if someone's opinion is that an artist is his own best inker, that is a very supportable position. Not that someone else can think it is another inker. I didn't mean it as a fact.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 28, 2024 20:55:04 GMT -5
I once saw these listed as superheroes in one book: Asterix the Gaul Biggles Doctor Who (or, simply The Doctor, if you prefer) The Lone Ranger James Bond The Scarlet Pimpernel The Three Musketeers And believe it or not, I once saw Paddington Bear list in a superhero guide! The definition seems wide, eh? Jeff Rovin's Encyclopedia of Supeheroes had Samson in it. Not Mighty Sampson (though both the Gold Key and Hanna Barbera versions of him were in there), but the Biblical Samson. It just seemed weird to have him in there. Rovin was including mythical figures who had powers or abilities akin to superheroes and who were literary influences on the superhero genre. Otherwise, he mostly stuck to costumed heroes from comic books, plus costumed pulp heroes or those who were major influences on comic book heroes, like Doc Savage and The Shadow. He also did an Encyclopedia of Adventure Heroes that was wider ranging, mostly leaving out superheroes, but adding western heroes, spies, private detectives, characters like Indiana Jones and monster fighters. That one was a better resource for adventure and mystery literature, for me, than his encyclopedias of super heroes and super villains were, for comics. The Super Hero book was marred, in my opinion, with some of his personal opinions. He was far more enthralled with the Atlas/Seaboard heroes than I was. Coincidentally, he edited most of them, before leaving the company. He also trashed the Justice Machine and his comments, to me, read like he only saw one of the original Noble Comics issues (his book predated the Comico series). He dismissed it as amateurish. I found that it was a great concept that suffered from some bad reproduction and a lot of hands on the inking. By the third issue, it had found its groove and was getting very interesting by the 4th and 5th, as well as the annual, with the THUNDER Agents crossover. When it was retooled for Comico, it got really good, at times, then kind of floundered. Tony Isabella was a big part of improving things and Mike Gustovich could take more time, with the art and reworked some of the costumes.
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Post by driver1980 on Mar 29, 2024 14:12:24 GMT -5
I really like this art:
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