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Post by commond on Apr 1, 2024 16:03:36 GMT -5
This is seriously messed up.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Apr 1, 2024 20:02:08 GMT -5
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Post by tonebone on Apr 1, 2024 21:13:36 GMT -5
Suicide is the end-game of cancel culture mobs. This time they succeeded, sadly.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,202
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Post by Confessor on Apr 1, 2024 22:53:44 GMT -5
Suicide is the end-game of cancel culture mobs. This time they succeeded, sadly. Not to spark a big debate, but I'm not sure calling it the "end-game of cancel culture mobs" is entirely correct (though I get what you're trying to say). For one thing, online mob justice eminates from the woke cancel culture gang and from far-right loonies alike. For another, I can't honestly beileve that the majority of the shouty, Hollier-than-thou brigade on social media who attacked Piskor actually wanted to force him to take his own life. They just piled on in order to "punish" or bully him for his transgresions (as they saw them). Which is, of course, despicable in itself, but not the same as actively trying to drive someone to suicide. Unfortunately, this is the kind of tradgedy that mob "justice" like that -- online or in the real world -- can cause though, so I agree with you there. It's really a terrible waste of life. He was a talented and knowledgable guy. While the text messages he sent were definitely skeevy and not at all appropriate, it's not like he actually did anything criminal (as far as I'm aware). Taking his life over this seems really excessive, but maybe there was more going on in the background regarding his mental health than we know?
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Post by commond on Apr 1, 2024 23:36:54 GMT -5
He left a five page note outlining some of the reasons. Comics was his entire life. His art show was already cancelled, and he was likely to lose the 75k book deal he was about to sign. Rugg had ended his professional association with him, meaning no more Cartoonist Kayfabe. He felt like his peers would about to disown him. Basically, everything he built up over the past five years was about to be ripped away from him. It was all so sudden. A few days ago, they were amped about their interview with Mike Mignola going through the Batman Year One artist edition and a week later this happens. He had plans to come over here again for another Manga Quest in May. It's crazy. I will say that he antagonized a lot of people and happily participated in cancel culture himself. There were people waiting to take him down. He called out some of these people in his note.
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Post by MDG on Apr 2, 2024 9:51:02 GMT -5
Suicide is the end-game of cancel culture mobs. This time they succeeded, sadly. ...It's really a terrible waste of life. He was a talented and knowledgable guy. While the text messages he sent were definitely skeevy and not at all appropriate, it's not like he actually did anything criminal (as far as I'm aware). Taking his life over this seems really excessive, but maybe there was more going on in the background regarding his mental health than we know? This.
Really, I have no knowledge of what he was like in person and what was going on in his life, but the image he cultivated was that of a fighter and I was a little surprised in the days after the revelations that he didn't dig himself in deeper going on the attack. The silence didn't seem to fit the character.
It's a shame but does a pile-on like he got make someone feel like they have no options to do the thing they love anymore?
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Post by tonebone on Apr 2, 2024 10:25:23 GMT -5
Suicide is the end-game of cancel culture mobs. This time they succeeded, sadly. Not to spark a big debate, but I'm not sure calling it the "end-game of cancel culture mobs" is entirely correct (though I get what you're trying to say). For one thing, online mob justice eminates from the woke cancel culture gang and from far-right loonies alike. For another, I can't honestly beileve that the majority of the shouty, Hollier-than-thou brigade on social media who attacked Piskor actually wanted to force him to take his own life. They just piled on in order to "punish" or bully him for his transgresions (as they saw them). Which is, of course, despicable in itself, but not the same as actively trying to drive someone to suicide. Unfortunately, this is the kind of tradgedy that mob "justice" like that -- online or in the real world -- can cause though, so I agree with you there. It's really a terrible waste of life. He was a talented and knowledgable guy. While the text messages he sent were definitely skeevy and not at all appropriate, it's not like he actually did anything criminal (as far as I'm aware). Taking his life over this seems really excessive, but maybe there was more going on in the background regarding his mental health than we know? I agree with all of this. I didn't mean to say it was the INTENDED end-game, but should be EXPECTED or at least POTENTIAL... What do people expect to happen when they take away a person's good name, their friends, their collaborators, and their career? All based on screenshots and unproven allegations.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Apr 2, 2024 10:49:33 GMT -5
We are wandering into some very touchy subjects here, folks. Please proceed with caution.
Let me lay down a few sensible guidelines for moving this conversation forward:
1. Let's not turn a blind eye to sexual harrassment in any form.
2. Let's also be sensative that a person has just taken their own life (though this does not absolve them of alleged wrong-doing).
2. Let's additionally recognize that online "justice" is damned tricky. Innocent until proven guilty seldom works in #metoo adjacent situations, but there is also a very real danger when public consensus gets to decide what "justice" looks like. It can absolutely go too far.
3. Finally, the suicide note was, itself, provocative and controversial.
Just please proceed with caution, all. Type with a cool head or don't type at all.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 2, 2024 12:16:15 GMT -5
Greg Burgas, at Atomic Junkpile, has a pretty even-handed take on this, here.I know nothing of the guys work, nor did I listen to the podcast. I have no dog in the hunt. Some of his accused behavior, which he did not deny, is at best, questionable. What seems clear, from what Greg noted about issue related to COVID lockdown is that he was suffering from clinical depression. Suicide seems a rather extreme response, on the face of allegations; but, if the clinical depression statements are true, then there is more likely a lot more behind this and this event was the final trigger. Having lived for 15 years with someone who suffered from clinical depression, it is not something that suddenly comes on. It simmers for a while, then boils up; and, if you are lucky, cools down. Medication and therapy can help, but doesn't always manage the issue, as in Barb's case, where she built up tolerances to the medication and they stopped working. In many cases, the problem is not treated by professionals and the individual tries to deal in other methods (drugs, alcohol, etc). My intuition was that a lot of things had been going on, for a long time. I also think that social media probably helped and added to his issues, as I have seen both effects. I also suspect that the truth of the allegations and persecution lie somewhere in a fuzzy middle. As Joe Straczynski wrote, in Babylon 5, "Understanding is a 3-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth." I doubt we will ever know the full truth, as everything is caught up in extremes, like too many things on the internet.
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Apr 2, 2024 12:43:18 GMT -5
One of our local lcs is celebrating it's 40th anniversary today. Bookery Fantasy at 40! April 2, 1984 - April 2, 2024. It is now strictly a back issue store (as well as vintage pulps, sci-fi and movie posters and lobby cards), no new comics and no gaming stuff (it sold off its annex across the street which was the gaming store about 2-3 years ago when they stopped carrying new comics as well). I only get there like 2-3 times a year, but they almost always have good stuff at good prices, but they also deal with a lot of high end, high grade and Golden Age stuff. There's always something cool to see there even if I don't find anything to buy. They also wrote and published one of the definitive (price) guides to pulp collecting. -M
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Post by EdoBosnar on Apr 2, 2024 12:45:37 GMT -5
Greg Burgas, at Atomic Junkpile, has a pretty even-handed take on this, here.(...) ...that's Junk Shop.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 2, 2024 12:51:20 GMT -5
Greg Burgas, at Atomic Junkpile, has a pretty even-handed take on this, here.(...) ...that's Junk Shop. Yeah, I know......my brain's fuzzy this morning
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 2, 2024 14:28:04 GMT -5
We are wandering into some very touchy subjects here, folks. Please proceed with caution. Let me lay down a few sensible guidelines for moving this conversation forward: 1. Let's not turn a blind eye to sexual harrassment in any form. 2. Let's also be sensative that a person has just taken their own life (though this does not absolve them of alleged wrong-doing). 2. Let's additionally recognize that online "justice" is damned tricky. Innocent until proven guilty seldom works in #metoo adjacent situations, but there is also a very real danger when public consensus gets to decide what "justice" looks like. It can absolutely go too far. 3. Finally, the suicide note was, itself, provocative and controversial. Just please proceed with caution, all. Type with a cool head or don't type at all.The term "Innocent until proven guilty" is only meaningful when it's used to refer to the criminal legal system. It almost never works there either, but at least there it's supposed to work. It simply isn't a thing when dealing with public opinion. It never has been. It never will be. While we're at it, "Cancel culture" (and I know you didn't invoke it) is a term that is utterly meaningless. It almost universally boils down to "I don't like what people are doing to/saying about this individual, institution, corporation, because I don't want them to do it. But if I do exactly the same thing it's not "canceling" because...reasons."
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Post by driver1980 on Apr 4, 2024 11:45:27 GMT -5
I like the cover of the current issue of 2000 AD (art by RM Guera):
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 4, 2024 14:08:51 GMT -5
I like the cover of the current issue of 2000 AD (art by RM Guera): Kind of reminds me of the artwork that Michael Avon Oeming did for the DC Judge Dredd series
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