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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 2, 2023 12:17:33 GMT -5
Kirby sketched some ideas on some of his projects and Ditko inked some of them; so, it is possible Kirby could have had a couple of ideas and discussed them, via sketches, with Ditko, when Spidey was born and Ditko kind of took the idea and tweaked it to his own sensibilities. I've seen artists sketch out things, then another takes tracing paper and goes over it with some alterations and they go back and forth with a drawing conversation.
The thing of it is, we are all looking at it in hindsight and you tend to look for influences of one or the other that you probably wouldn't see on your own. For instance, we once got a book in our bargain section, at Barnes & Noble, from the UK, which claimed that Andrew and Edward were not fathered by Prince Phillip. It showed photos of the alleged fathers and you would notice similarities; but, the mere suggestion of such a thing causes you to look for similarities and many unrelated people have similar features, because of ethnic backgrounds or body types or what have you. The fact was, though, that the all bore so much of Elizabeth that you coul suggest anyone as the father and you would have to look past the Windsor genes to see it. As it was, I still though Edward bore a strong resemblance to Phillip. I also didn't give much credence to any book that ended up in our bargain section that was never in the trade section, at any point.
Ditko and Kirby shared a lot of artistic influences and origins, so they have a lot of common features within their work, when you look beyond their individual style. So, your preference for or indicators of one vs the other is going to influence your perception.
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Post by kirby101 on Apr 2, 2023 12:39:22 GMT -5
I'm not saying Evanier was making things up per se or it isn't possible Kirby had any input, but my head isn't there that any of those villain designs absolutely scream Jack. ASM during Ditko's run noticeably had a much more robust line-up of villains than the main credited titles Kirby worked on, so maybe he contributed an idea here or there, but I'm not sharing Steve's credit without more verifiable info. If you read the quote, he talked to both men and both said Kirby did some design work for the ASM villains.
And I would think, even if Kirby drew the original design, Ditko would have put his own spin on them.
But as Ditko said, who was the actual creator.
So Kirby could have come up with an idea for a villain, and a rough design, but then Ditko made it a Ditko character.
I am just having fun looking at which ones they might be. Not diminishing one creator or another.
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 2, 2023 14:44:53 GMT -5
That's another thing we all have to thank Stan Lee for, rejecting that abomination of a Kirby designed Spider-man.
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Post by kirby101 on Apr 2, 2023 15:29:25 GMT -5
Come on, it's not bad, just pedestrian.
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Post by kirby101 on Apr 2, 2023 16:08:07 GMT -5
In truth superhero costume design was not one Kirby's strengths. They were mostly long underwear with accents. He was great at character design. Especially god like beings and aliens and monsters. So the cast of Thor or Galactus or Darkseid, exceptional But the FF, blue longhorns with a nice logo. Orion, red longjohns.
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Post by jester on Apr 2, 2023 16:14:39 GMT -5
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 2, 2023 16:42:10 GMT -5
Come on, it's not bad, just pedestrian. Kirby you’re my guy but you’re also a KIRBY homer.
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Post by kirby101 on Apr 2, 2023 17:54:40 GMT -5
Come on, it's not bad, just pedestrian. Kirby you’re my guy but you’re also a KIRBY homer. Did you read my second post criticizing Kirby's costume design. "Pedestrian" isn't exactly high praise.
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Post by kirby101 on Apr 2, 2023 17:57:49 GMT -5
My bad. I edited to keep only Ditko's drawing in my post.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2023 18:20:32 GMT -5
Random thought: when I see covers for the OHOTMU, I think about how such volumes today would require double or triple the pages. Just think of all the Hulks and Spider-Characters, for instance.
Wouldn’t want to be the editor on that.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 7, 2023 8:18:32 GMT -5
Random thought: when I see covers for the OHOTMU, I think about how such volumes today would require double or triple the pages. Just think of all the Hulks and Spider-Characters, for instance. Wouldn’t want to be the editor on that. There would definitely have to be a whole volume for the Spider-verse!
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Post by jason on Apr 7, 2023 10:12:01 GMT -5
Random thought: when I see covers for the OHOTMU, I think about how such volumes today would require double or triple the pages. Just think of all the Hulks and Spider-Characters, for instance. Wouldn’t want to be the editor on that. And I dont think they'd even bother with the Book of the Dead anymore (though it was Dead and Inactive to be fair).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2023 13:42:41 GMT -5
From the Billy Ireland Museum of Cartoon Art...
-M
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Post by kirby101 on Apr 9, 2023 15:29:37 GMT -5
Reading my Taschen Spider-Man book, Ralph Macchio has a good overview of the beginnings of the book, including what both Ditko and Lee brought to it (for those that think I hate Stan Lee, I don't, I fully acknowledge how much his scripting and characterization lead to Spider-Man popularity) Anyway, one of the things mentioned was how Stan rejected Ditko's original cover for AF #15 and had Kirby redraw it for the cover we all know. So here are the two covers (I found a version of Ditko's that was colored). I see the plus and minuses of both and in the end give Kirby the edge because it's more dynamic. What say you all?
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 9, 2023 15:43:02 GMT -5
^ Probably the only time Kirby illustrated a good Spider-Man, and his cover gave the then-new character a kind of strength and air of mystery the Ditko cover lacked entirely.
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