|
Post by kirby101 on Apr 24, 2023 14:52:37 GMT -5
Minor vent about (some) current digitally-created comics. I just finished the first volume of Chip Zdarsky's Public Domain. What do you notice? Backgrounds? It feels like the artists can get away with it, just leave it out. If not just do something with a few straight lines. Forget any details or "character" that might add to mood or theme. And it really calls attention to itself by it's absence.
I think there's a real opportunity for some artists to become background specialists and really add to the overall quality of the storytelling. IIRC, for a while, Tex Blaisdell was known as a "background man," handling several popular newspaper strips. Thoughts?
Just saw this and it illustrates my point of someone who drew everyday life, but in a way that made you enjoy the art and made it more energetic. It's day and night to me.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Apr 24, 2023 21:57:15 GMT -5
Minor vent about (some) current digitally-created comics. I just finished the first volume of Chip Zdarsky's Public Domain. What do you notice? Backgrounds? It feels like the artists can get away with it, just leave it out. If not just do something with a few straight lines. Forget any details or "character" that might add to mood or theme. And it really calls attention to itself by it's absence.
I think there's a real opportunity for some artists to become background specialists and really add to the overall quality of the storytelling. IIRC, for a while, Tex Blaisdell was known as a "background man," handling several popular newspaper strips. Thoughts?
Just saw this and it illustrates my point of someone who drew everyday life, but in a way that made you enjoy the art and made it more energetic. It's day and night to me. Alex Kotzky, co-creator of the Quality Comics Manhunter! Always enjoyed Apartment 3G, when I was young (too young to understand it, but it looked great!) I don't mind minimalist background, if the story is good and the panels also carry the mood, with good coloring or shading, in B&W comics. I do have a problem, though, if it doesn't look like the characters inhabit their world, in some fashion. Too many 90s comics had that problem (a good swath of 80s comics, too). I'm also not a big fan of artists who can't at least convey the idea of different styles and textures of clothing. So few comics artists really seem to have a handle on fashion and textiles and a lot of the superhero crowd can't seem to even draw a suit that doesn't look like spandex. Guys like Chaykin get it and mix in patterns and different techniques to suggest different fabrics. The romance comic crowd excelled at that sort of thing (it was expected by the audience) but so did some of the western and adventure artists. Look at Alex Raymond's Flash Gordon. He goes from minimal costuming at the start to more elaborate and theatrical costuming, with the 19th Century Austro-Hungarian look, silks and high fashion styles for Dale and the various queens and princesses, the martial uniforms, etc. It added to the swashbuckler style of the strip.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Apr 24, 2023 21:59:30 GMT -5
ps That Kotzky example shows some great work with the fashions, between the man's sport coat and tie to the woman's dress, with the interesting pattern and the accenting, with jewelry, hairstyles, cigarettes, files and such.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2023 5:58:39 GMT -5
Some of you may enjoy this:
|
|
|
Post by Batflunkie on Apr 26, 2023 7:34:02 GMT -5
Some of you may enjoy this: I think the Crisis one is available as a shirt for Hurricane/Shane Helms on his Pro Wrestling Tees page?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2023 1:15:30 GMT -5
From the Billy Ireland Museum of Cartoon Art...
It was supposed to run a few weeks ago by CBS preempted the Sunday news show to cover golf (The Masters I think) that had been delayed by weather the previous day.
-M
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2023 13:26:04 GMT -5
If you missed the segment on the news this morning, the piece on the Blackbeard collection at Billy Ireland is up on youtube...
-M
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 1, 2023 6:01:45 GMT -5
I did learn a thing or two:
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2023 7:02:20 GMT -5
I like the look of this:
|
|
|
Post by Batflunkie on May 2, 2023 12:36:49 GMT -5
Comic Book Novels have always been strange to me, same with film novelizations
Around 2013, there was some young adult novels based on She-Hulk (The She-Hulk Diaries) and Rogue (Rogue Touch) that a website was giving away and I ended up winning the Rogue one. Later gave it to a close friend who I thought would enjoy it more than I would
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on May 2, 2023 22:56:30 GMT -5
Comic Book Novels have always been strange to me, same with film novelizations
Around 2013, there was some young adult novels based on She-Hulk (The She-Hulk Diaries) and Rogue (Rogue Touch) that a website was giving away and I ended up winning the Rogue one. Later gave it to a close friend who I thought would enjoy it more than I would
The problem is that there is a very different technique to writing prose fiction, especially a novel and a comic book story. the latter is more akin to a short story and even comic book epics aren't the equivalent of a novel. A novel lets you explore all kinds of facets of a story, while comics have some limitations. By the same token, comics are also primarily visual storytelling and can use an illustration to make a point that paragraphs might be required, in prose. In general, very few comic book writers have proven to be successful as novelists or prose writers, in general; at least, from the fan generations. Earlier generations had guys like Gardner Fox and Edmond Hamilton, Otto Binder and a couple of others who dabbled in prose and comics. Many proved more successful in writing similar material, like episodic television. Trying to tell a comic book story...or, rather, a superhero story, in prose, is difficult because of the visual nature to so much of it. The ones who have done it well are few and the biggest, in my eyes is Elliot Maggin. He was one of the best Superman writers of the 70s and he translated him perfectly to the two novels he wrote, to be marketed alongside (but not adapting) the first two Christopher Reeve films. He would later be tapped to adapt Kingdom Come to prose and he utilized the format to explore some things that the mini-series didn't have room for. I tried the various batman novels and anthologies that came out in the wake of the Burton movies and they were mostly mediocre, at bewst. i think I enjoyed only two stories from the anthologies, to any great degree. I didn't read some of the later 90s/2000s items, because of the track record. On the Marvel side, I read Otto Binder's Avengers: Battle of the earth-Wrecker and it was just "okay." Same with Captain America: The Great Gold Steal, by Ted White. I read the Marvel Super Heroes anthology, with the Shooter Avengers story, a Claremont X-Men and a Daredevil and a Hulk story. None of them were particularly great and the Avengers one kind of rehashed a comic book storyline. The X-Men one sort of did, too. Didn't read any of the rest. Did not read Diane Duane's Spider-Man books, but did read Peter David's Hulk novel. He understood the difference in mechanics, given his Star Trek work; but, the mini-with George Perez added a lot that the book couldn't convey. have not read Greg Cox' Iron Man; but have read his Khan novels, for Star Trek. I did read Tony Isabella's Captain America: Liberty's Torch, which was okay, but didn't convey the action well and Will Murray's Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD: Empyre was a disappointment to me, but more for the threat and how SHIELD was handled. I wanted something more Steranko. I just don't think superheroes work very well in prose format, because there are too many visual elements built into them. Now, where Maggin succeeded with Superman, aside from giving him a more rounded personality and more adult motivations and emotions, was in how Superman attacked a crisis. Maggin was able to present the mental strategy that Superman applied to the problem and illustrated the creative ways he used his abilities. The first novel has a sequence where Luthor sends out a bunch of men, in backpack helicopters, to launch simultaneous bank robberies, on the financial sector of Metropolis. He details how Superman deals with the threat in multiple locations. He does things like fuse the door locks on a roof access and then dumps some of the crooks onto those roofs. He creates an updraft to alter the course of some others, while he deals with another crook, to put them out of play until he can return and collect them. In another section, he deals with a massive tsunami and applies multiple strategies to lessen the impact. He creates a trench on the ocean floor, to divert a certain volume of the wave. He plunges into the wave to create a vacuum to draw away another portion. he vaporizes some of it and uses his super-breath to divert it over a drought area to then provide rain and dispose of more. The sum total of his actions lessons the wave that finally hits the shore to that of a heavy storm, but far less than a hurricane or tsunami, mitigating much of its impact and danger.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2023 7:36:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by foxley on May 3, 2023 7:46:51 GMT -5
Comic Book Novels have always been strange to me, same with film novelizations
Around 2013, there was some young adult novels based on She-Hulk (The She-Hulk Diaries) and Rogue (Rogue Touch) that a website was giving away and I ended up winning the Rogue one. Later gave it to a close friend who I thought would enjoy it more than I would
The problem is that there is a very different technique to writing prose fiction, especially a novel and a comic book story. the latter is more akin to a short story and even comic book epics aren't the equivalent of a novel. A novel lets you explore all kinds of facets of a story, while comics have some limitations. By the same token, comics are also primarily visual storytelling and can use an illustration to make a point that paragraphs might be required, in prose. In general, very few comic book writers have proven to be successful as novelists or prose writers, in general; at least, from the fan generations. Earlier generations had guys like Gardner Fox and Edmond Hamilton, Otto Binder and a couple of others who dabbled in prose and comics. Many proved more successful in writing similar material, like episodic television. Trying to tell a comic book story...or, rather, a superhero story, in prose, is difficult because of the visual nature to so much of it. The ones who have done it well are few and the biggest, in my eyes is Elliot Maggin. He was one of the best Superman writers of the 70s and he translated him perfectly to the two novels he wrote, to be marketed alongside (but not adapting) the first two Christopher Reeve films. He would later be tapped to adapt Kingdom Come to prose and he utilized the format to explore some things that the mini-series didn't have room for. I tried the various batman novels and anthologies that came out in the wake of the Burton movies and they were mostly mediocre, at bewst. i think I enjoyed only two stories from the anthologies, to any great degree. I didn't read some of the later 90s/2000s items, because of the track record. On the Marvel side, I read Otto Binder's Avengers: Battle of the earth-Wrecker and it was just "okay." Same with Captain America: The Great Gold Steal, by Ted White. I read the Marvel Super Heroes anthology, with the Shooter Avengers story, a Claremont X-Men and a Daredevil and a Hulk story. None of them were particularly great and the Avengers one kind of rehashed a comic book storyline. The X-Men one sort of did, too. Didn't read any of the rest. Did not read Diane Duane's Spider-Man books, but did read Peter David's Hulk novel. He understood the difference in mechanics, given his Star Trek work; but, the mini-with George Perez added a lot that the book couldn't convey. have not read Greg Cox' Iron Man; but have read his Khan novels, for Star Trek. I did read Tony Isabella's Captain America: Liberty's Torch, which was okay, but didn't convey the action well and Will Murray's Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD: Empyre was a disappointment to me, but more for the threat and how SHIELD was handled. I wanted something more Steranko. I just don't think superheroes work very well in prose format, because there are too many visual elements built into them. Now, where Maggin succeeded with Superman, aside from giving him a more rounded personality and more adult motivations and emotions, was in how Superman attacked a crisis. Maggin was able to present the mental strategy that Superman applied to the problem and illustrated the creative ways he used his abilities. The first novel has a sequence where Luthor sends out a bunch of men, in backpack helicopters, to launch simultaneous bank robberies, on the financial sector of Metropolis. He details how Superman deals with the threat in multiple locations. He does things like fuse the door locks on a roof access and then dumps some of the crooks onto those roofs. He creates an updraft to alter the course of some others, while he deals with another crook, to put them out of play until he can return and collect them. In another section, he deals with a massive tsunami and applies multiple strategies to lessen the impact. He creates a trench on the ocean floor, to divert a certain volume of the wave. He plunges into the wave to create a vacuum to draw away another portion. he vaporizes some of it and uses his super-breath to divert it over a drought area to then provide rain and dispose of more. The sum total of his actions lessons the wave that finally hits the shore to that of a heavy storm, but far less than a hurricane or tsunami, mitigating much of its impact and danger. Max Allan Collins has been successful as both a novelist and a comics writer, although his novels are not about superheroes. He did write a Ms. Tree novel, though.
|
|
|
Post by MWGallaher on May 3, 2023 8:02:43 GMT -5
I don't mind minimalist background, if the story is good and the panels also carry the mood, with good coloring or shading, in B&W comics. I do have a problem, though, if it doesn't look like the characters inhabit their world, in some fashion. Too many 90s comics had that problem (a good swath of 80s comics, too). I'm also not a big fan of artists who can't at least convey the idea of different styles and textures of clothing. So few comics artists really seem to have a handle on fashion and textiles and a lot of the superhero crowd can't seem to even draw a suit that doesn't look like spandex. Guys like Chaykin get it and mix in patterns and different techniques to suggest different fabrics. The romance comic crowd excelled at that sort of thing (it was expected by the audience) but so did some of the western and adventure artists. Look at Alex Raymond's Flash Gordon. He goes from minimal costuming at the start to more elaborate and theatrical costuming, with the 19th Century Austro-Hungarian look, silks and high fashion styles for Dale and the various queens and princesses, the martial uniforms, etc. It added to the swashbuckler style of the strip. Great expression of what I've been thinking for years! There's almost nothing that exposes how limited in range many modern comics artists are than seeing them try to draw a man in a suit. You can be sure they sketch out a generic muscular superhero body and try to superimpose a suit, resulting in very flawed results: poses inconsistent with the constraints of a jacket, pants with bulging calves, unconvincing draping of fabric, as well as other difficulties not so dependent on pose, such as the inability to draw a simple lapel that looks like anything one would find in real clothing. The Kotzky strip also highlights another common thing I see lots of artists struggle with: showing someone holding a phone to their ear. It seems like it should be a simple thing, but so many artists flub it with unnatural grasping posture, somehow making it look like the character is talking into a pretend phone made of a cutout piece of cardboard. As for fabrics and textures, I've long contended that the controversial Vince Colletta was more appreciated as a romance artist because he lavished so much attention on hair, lips, lashes, sweaters, the things suggesting a tactile sensuousness that appealed to romance comics readers. Over in the superhero world, that kind of thing was very much unappreciated: readers wanted inkers like Joe Sinnott who'd render costumes as seamless, form-fitting body paint, with hair like the plastic wigs Devo wore at one stage of their devolution. The superhero world was a slick, smooth, shiny place. I note that the one superhero comic that readers generally support Colletta on was Thor, a comic in which, I contend, texture tended to be far more important, with characters wearing furs, interacting more with trees, stones, hairy menaces. Maybe that's just confirmation bias, but it's the impression I've gotten: Thor's world was a grittier, more natural environment, and Colletta helped convey a tactile quality that wasn't as necessary or as welcome in stories that took place in high tech environments or man-made constructs.
|
|
|
Post by EdoBosnar on May 3, 2023 8:15:21 GMT -5
Max Allan Collins has been successful as both a novelist and a comics writer, although his novels are not about superheroes. He did write a Ms. Tree novel, though. Yes, but Collins is first and foremost a novelist who was already pretty well established as such before he started to make forays into comics writing. (And with a few exceptions - mainly Batman - the subject matter of most of his comics work kind of echoes his non-comics prose.)
By the way, on the topic of Collins and comics, if you haven't already, you should read his Jack & Maggie Starr murder mysteries, set in the late '40s/early '50s and all tied to events and personalities on the comics scene of the time.
|
|