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Post by foxley on May 3, 2023 8:29:52 GMT -5
Max Allan Collins has been successful as both a novelist and a comics writer, although his novels are not about superheroes. He did write a Ms. Tree novel, though. Yes, but Collins is first and foremost a novelist who was already pretty well established as such before he started to make forays into comics writing. (And with a few exceptions - mainly Batman - the subject matter of most of his comics work kind of echoes his non-comics prose.)
By the way, on the topic of Collins and comics, if you haven't already, you should read his Jack & Maggie Starr murder mysteries, set in the late '40s/early '50s and all tied to events and personalities on the comics scene of the time. I haven't got round to them yet, but they are on my 'to read' list.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 3, 2023 9:02:11 GMT -5
Max Allan Collins has been successful as both a novelist and a comics writer, although his novels are not about superheroes. He did write a Ms. Tree novel, though. Yes, but Collins is first and foremost a novelist who was already pretty well established as such before he started to make forays into comics writing. (And with a few exceptions - mainly Batman - the subject matter of most of his comics work kind of echoes his non-comics prose.)
By the way, on the topic of Collins and comics, if you haven't already, you should read his Jack & Maggie Starr murder mysteries, set in the late '40s/early '50s and all tied to events and personalities on the comics scene of the time. And Collins' forays outside detective/noir comics, i.e. Batman, were absolute garbage.
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Post by MDG on May 3, 2023 9:56:28 GMT -5
Yes, but Collins is first and foremost a novelist who was already pretty well established as such before he started to make forays into comics writing. (And with a few exceptions - mainly Batman - the subject matter of most of his comics work kind of echoes his non-comics prose.)
By the way, on the topic of Collins and comics, if you haven't already, you should read his Jack & Maggie Starr murder mysteries, set in the late '40s/early '50s and all tied to events and personalities on the comics scene of the time. And Collins' forays outside detective/noir comics, i.e. Batman, were absolute garbage. I wish I could argue with that... maybe just the "absolute" part.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2023 11:31:52 GMT -5
This was published 30 years ago today... Understanding Comics by Scott McCloud It is one of the seminal works about comics. I had been reading comics since '73, but when I read this in the late 90s it opened up my eyes to all the possibilities of comics. Radically changed my perspective on hat comics are and can be, and introduced me to a host of comics and creators I might never otherwise have discovered. -M
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Post by codystarbuck on May 3, 2023 11:32:45 GMT -5
The problem is that there is a very different technique to writing prose fiction, especially a novel and a comic book story. the latter is more akin to a short story and even comic book epics aren't the equivalent of a novel. A novel lets you explore all kinds of facets of a story, while comics have some limitations. By the same token, comics are also primarily visual storytelling and can use an illustration to make a point that paragraphs might be required, in prose. In general, very few comic book writers have proven to be successful as novelists or prose writers, in general; at least, from the fan generations. Earlier generations had guys like Gardner Fox and Edmond Hamilton, Otto Binder and a couple of others who dabbled in prose and comics. Many proved more successful in writing similar material, like episodic television. Trying to tell a comic book story...or, rather, a superhero story, in prose, is difficult because of the visual nature to so much of it. The ones who have done it well are few and the biggest, in my eyes is Elliot Maggin. He was one of the best Superman writers of the 70s and he translated him perfectly to the two novels he wrote, to be marketed alongside (but not adapting) the first two Christopher Reeve films. He would later be tapped to adapt Kingdom Come to prose and he utilized the format to explore some things that the mini-series didn't have room for. I tried the various batman novels and anthologies that came out in the wake of the Burton movies and they were mostly mediocre, at bewst. i think I enjoyed only two stories from the anthologies, to any great degree. I didn't read some of the later 90s/2000s items, because of the track record. On the Marvel side, I read Otto Binder's Avengers: Battle of the earth-Wrecker and it was just "okay." Same with Captain America: The Great Gold Steal, by Ted White. I read the Marvel Super Heroes anthology, with the Shooter Avengers story, a Claremont X-Men and a Daredevil and a Hulk story. None of them were particularly great and the Avengers one kind of rehashed a comic book storyline. The X-Men one sort of did, too. Didn't read any of the rest. Did not read Diane Duane's Spider-Man books, but did read Peter David's Hulk novel. He understood the difference in mechanics, given his Star Trek work; but, the mini-with George Perez added a lot that the book couldn't convey. have not read Greg Cox' Iron Man; but have read his Khan novels, for Star Trek. I did read Tony Isabella's Captain America: Liberty's Torch, which was okay, but didn't convey the action well and Will Murray's Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD: Empyre was a disappointment to me, but more for the threat and how SHIELD was handled. I wanted something more Steranko. I just don't think superheroes work very well in prose format, because there are too many visual elements built into them. Now, where Maggin succeeded with Superman, aside from giving him a more rounded personality and more adult motivations and emotions, was in how Superman attacked a crisis. Maggin was able to present the mental strategy that Superman applied to the problem and illustrated the creative ways he used his abilities. The first novel has a sequence where Luthor sends out a bunch of men, in backpack helicopters, to launch simultaneous bank robberies, on the financial sector of Metropolis. He details how Superman deals with the threat in multiple locations. He does things like fuse the door locks on a roof access and then dumps some of the crooks onto those roofs. He creates an updraft to alter the course of some others, while he deals with another crook, to put them out of play until he can return and collect them. In another section, he deals with a massive tsunami and applies multiple strategies to lessen the impact. He creates a trench on the ocean floor, to divert a certain volume of the wave. He plunges into the wave to create a vacuum to draw away another portion. he vaporizes some of it and uses his super-breath to divert it over a drought area to then provide rain and dispose of more. The sum total of his actions lessons the wave that finally hits the shore to that of a heavy storm, but far less than a hurricane or tsunami, mitigating much of its impact and danger. Max Allan Collins has been successful as both a novelist and a comics writer, although his novels are not about superheroes. He did write a Ms. Tree novel, though. I was thinking more of comics people who tried writing prose, rather than the reverse, but forgot Collins.
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Post by Rob Allen on May 3, 2023 12:29:50 GMT -5
Ted White's Captain America novel, The Great Gold Steal was much better than Otto Binder's The Avengers Battle the Earth-Wrecker. Binder's book came out first and did so poorly that the proposed line of books was cancelled and White's book got no promotion. White was supposed to write more books in the series and was pissed at Binder for years.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 3, 2023 20:13:48 GMT -5
Ted White's Captain America novel, The Great Gold Steal was much better than Otto Binder's The Avengers Battle the Earth-Wrecker. Binder's book came out first and did so poorly that the proposed line of books was cancelled and White's book got no promotion. White was supposed to write more books in the series and was pissed at Binder for years. I would agree that it was better than Binder's but I didn't think it was that great of a Captain America or superhero book. Better than the 70s attempts; but that isn't a high standard to achieve. William Rotsler's Blackhawk novel was good pulpy fun, though a bit kinky, in one segment (dominatrix villain with slaves chained up in lockers or something similar....kind of Baroness Paula Von Gunther material). Then again, the original Blackhawk stuff and similar fare could be kinky pulp adventure, at times. So could captain America and other superheroes. Hell, Timely's covers reveled in it as much as Fiction House.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2023 6:36:26 GMT -5
Worth a read:
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2023 19:15:12 GMT -5
Today marks the 1 year anniversary of the passing of George Perez. One of the greats, whos legacy endures. -M
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2023 21:01:11 GMT -5
Today marks the 1 year anniversary of the passing of George Perez. One of the greats, whos legacy endures. -M Absolutely, can't believe it has already been a year, and I still can't fully process it to be honest. Like in music, my brain still doesn't fully register folks like Tom Petty, Prince, David Bowie, etc. are gone. I eventually catch myself remembering they've left us, but again it doesn't quite seem real, the same as I feel with George.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 7, 2023 11:44:27 GMT -5
I love Perez' work. Seemed like a genuinely nice guy, too. Loved Bowie's music. Liked a lot of Petty's and Prince.
You'll forgive me if I don't feel the same sense of loss, though.
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Post by kirby101 on May 7, 2023 12:15:28 GMT -5
I lived in LA in the 80s and this was my store. It was a special time, something I didn't realize at the time. (do we ever?). Bill, his wife and the whole staff were great.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 7, 2023 13:43:51 GMT -5
Sorry. That previous post sounds ridiculously condescending and plain dickish.
I'm just a little sensitive. It's been less than 6 months since I lost my wife and in the last month I have had two dreams where she appeared, mute, and I tell her she is dead and wake up from the dream. She was seriously depressed after Keith Emerson & Greg Lake, of Emerson, Lake & Palmer, both passed away, in 2016. She deeply connected with music, especially theirs. It brought her joy, when her brain poisoned her with a lack of seratonin and fed her depression and anxiety. So, I understand that artistic works transcend the artist and people connect to those works and the artist, in emotional ways. I just never felt that kind of connection to people I didn't actually know.
My apologies for any offense taken.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2023 15:49:33 GMT -5
Today is the 85th anniversary of the birth of legendary comic artist Jean Giraud, better known as Moebius... -M
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2023 16:00:56 GMT -5
I was today years old when I learned there was a DC villain that was a color swapped Dr. Fate called Dr. Chaos... PS anyone know what issue this is from offhand? edit: looks like New Adventures of Superboy #25 from '82 -M
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