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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 16:08:26 GMT -5
Not a bad issue. It was nice to take a break from the trek across America and go back into space for a few issues. O'Neil doesn't really make any strong social statements this issue. He does touch on pollution briefly and in a round about way discusses justice and the law. He uses GA again to argue with the Guardians about how of touch they are with humanity. A metaphor for how out of touch politicians are with the common man? Well, no, except for the obvious references to the Chicago Eight trial during which Judge Julius Hoffman had defendant Bobby Seale bound to his chair and gagged at the defense table. It was an absolute circus. All of the convictions were eventually overturned on appeal. Hoffman   I was a bit too young to know about or remember the Chicago Eight Trial. I just read online about it. Now the issue makes a lot more sense. Now I have to re-read it with this "new" information. O'Neil made a much stronger statement than I realized. I edited my original post giving you credit for your insight. This is what I love about this forum. Discussions like this! |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 23, 2019 17:53:33 GMT -5
The Chicago 7/8 also inspired a story with the Hulk; but, I can't recall where and when (I'm getting my butt kicked by a cold and can't find the reference).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 19:30:00 GMT -5
The Chicago 7/8 also inspired a story with the Hulk; but, I can't recall where and when (I'm getting my butt kicked by a cold and can't find the reference). Incredible Hulk #151-154?
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 24, 2019 12:56:24 GMT -5
That's the one. I kept looking for a cover image and Google kept giving me Hulk Hogan. This is why I laugh every time someone under the age of 30 crows about Google and finding any info on the internet.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 15:27:20 GMT -5
 Script by Denny O'Neil. Pencils by Neal Adams. Inks by Dick Giordano. Green Lantern, Green Arrow and Black Canary go to Oa. Old-Timer was found guilty by the Tribune (see last issue). As punishment Old-Timer is stripped of his immortality and sentenced to live on the planet Maltus. GL, GA and BC go with him to help him settle in and discover Maltus is grossly over-populated. The overpopulation is causing extreme poverty due to experiments performed by a Mother Juna. After stopping Juna they leave the Old-Timer behind at his request. He decides to spend the rest of his life restoring balance to Maltus.   I remember Star Trek's "The Mark of Gideon" and "Logan's Run" and "Soylent Green". It seemed to be a major topic in sci fi at that time. However overpopulation and declining natural resources are still a concern today. However overpopulation is talked about less and climate change is the bigger concern for declining natural resources. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 21:23:18 GMT -5
With this issue the Old-Timer's adventures with GL & GA come to an end. Next issue the title will take a slightly different direction, Black Canary will appear more often and Carol Ferris will return. IMO this first half starred Green Arrow with GL being the co-star. In the second half Green Lantern will be the focus with GA being more the co-star.
And while these stories are "dated" and definitely tied to that point in time, they still hold an important message today. We still face a lot of the same issues and while the stories can not provide a solution they can challenge us to face these issues and work on finding solutions. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 17:12:24 GMT -5
 Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams. Inks by Dick Giordano and Bernie Wrightson. Green Arrow and Black Canary are attacked by harpies. GA contacts GL for help. GL becomes trapped by The Witch Queen. Her brother is Sinestro. Meanwhile GA and BC meet a group of Amazons who are overcome by Black Canary's fighting skills. They explain in the past a wizard trapped them in another dimension. The Witch Queen has freed them in return for them to make all men pay for being evil. GA & BC free GL from the other dimension where he is trapped.  What did I just read? After the last several issues dealing with social issues this was a weird issue. It felt so out of place with the Harpies, the Witch Queen, Amazons, a Sinestro cameo, Medusa. I had to check if O'Neil wrote it since it was so different from anything he had written in this title so far. I would love to know why this story was written. IMO it was a little confusing and definitely one of the worst stories in this run. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 7, 2019 17:52:32 GMT -5
md62, in the "Issue-of-theMonth approach O'Neil was taking, this was his muddled (to be overly kind) take on the Women's Lib movement. Using Harpies, a witch, Medusa, and gigantic Amazons as representatives -- virtually all of whom emerge as man-haters -- complete with the unenlightened Green Arrow making his usual inane "Pretty Bird" comments, shows how wrongheaded it was. Writing female characters -- or even about female characters -- was not his strength.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 17:57:09 GMT -5
md62 , in the "Issue-of-theMonth approach O'Neil was taking, this was his muddled (to be overly kind) take on the Women's Lib movement. Using Harpies, a witch, Medusa, and gigantic Amazons as representatives -- virtually all of whom emerge as man-haters -- complete with the unenlightened Green Arrow making his usual inane "Pretty Bird" comments, shows how wrongheaded it was. Writing female characters -- or even about female characters -- was not his strength. Obviously. I thought this story was just a mess. |
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 7, 2019 18:58:41 GMT -5
md62 , in the "Issue-of-theMonth approach O'Neil was taking, this was his muddled (to be overly kind) take on the Women's Lib movement. Using Harpies, a witch, Medusa, and gigantic Amazons as representatives -- virtually all of whom emerge as man-haters -- complete with the unenlightened Green Arrow making his usual inane "Pretty Bird" comments, shows how wrongheaded it was. Writing female characters -- or even about female characters -- was not his strength. Obviously. I thought this story was just a mess. Still, O'Neil was on a run of few bumps rarely matched in comic history. ...or, one could just look at Marvel's handling of female characters with the Lady Liberators as seen in "Come on in...the Revolution's Fine!" issue #83 of The Avengers (December, 1970)--  --where the Enchantress convinces (and not by magic, if I recall) the female heroes to form a team and...take their rightful place as heroes by attacking the opposite sex for male oppression--even their fellow Avengers! Yeah, not one of Thomas' finest months as a writer, with a story remembered more for Thomas bludgeoning the reader with alleged relevance than anything else. The point is that one can judge O'Neil's handling of female characters and/or subjects, but it was happening "across the street", only here, he hung this on Marvel's then-most prominent female characters, and never seriously addressed their complaints in issues to come (if at all), so it was the 1970 equivalent of a "Very Special Episode" or "This is ripped straight from the headlines!!" kind of bad, opportunistic TV, rather than addressing something naturally within the framework of the story, or the title's history. |
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Post by Farrar on Feb 7, 2019 20:27:50 GMT -5
...or, one could just look at Marvel's handling of female characters with the Lady Liberators as seen in "Come on in...the Revolution's Fine!" issue #83 of The Avengers (December, 1970)--where the Enchantress convinces (and not by magic, if I recall) the female heroes to form a team... The Enchantress was in fact controlling them, through her use of "subtle, secret spells." Wanda's the one who breaks free of her control and ultimately saves the day. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 20:32:50 GMT -5
 Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams. Inks by Dick Giordano. Green Lantern and Green Arrow take Dinah to a private school where she will be a teacher. However it is a very strange school. The cook Grandy seems to be running the school. He also controls a little girl with psychic powers named Sybil, and the owner Jason Belmore. Belmore asks GL & GA to leave. They run into Carol Ferris who is now in a wheelchair as a result of a run in with Sybil. Later Dinah is confronted and trapped in a room full of wasps by Grandy. GL & GA return to the school in time to save Black Canary. Grandy orders Sybil to attack GL, however she refuses and instead brings the roof down on herself and Grandy. Meanwhile GL reveals he is Hal to Carol and they reconnect as lovers. The appearances of Sybil and Grandy are based on Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew. Why? Just because Adams disliked them. And I also noticed Adam's backgrounds becoming less detailed as this run continued. Another weird issue. I'm not sure what issue O'Neil was addressing. It was another mess of an issue with the only redeeming part being the focus on Hal & Carol. This will continue into the next issue.   |
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 10, 2019 18:09:06 GMT -5
...or, one could just look at Marvel's handling of female characters with the Lady Liberators as seen in "Come on in...the Revolution's Fine!" issue #83 of The Avengers (December, 1970)--where the Enchantress convinces (and not by magic, if I recall) the female heroes to form a team... The Enchantress was in fact controlling them, through her use of "subtle, secret spells." Wanda's the one who breaks free of her control and ultimately saves the day. Ah, but those "subtle, secret spells" only highlighted frustrations the women already had, which came out of nowhere, since this was never addressed as a serious sub-plot before or after this issue, so it boils down to Thomas jumping on a soapbox, and as a result, pin an undeserved charge on the male Avengers. The appearances of Sybil and Grandy are based on Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew. Why? Just because Adams disliked them. O'Neil and Adams were influenced by their times and could be quite effective with certain social or political views, but basing characters on the then-current administration was a level of self-indulgence that was for me (at that time) groan-inducing. Not certain for the cause of that, other than the fact that at the time, he was working overtime on a ton of comics and other media, so perhaps he was letting Giordano pick up the slack somewhat. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 19:10:55 GMT -5
tarkintino thanks for your comments. I was wondering how readers felt when these came out as I read these books 10-12 years later and thought it was stupid at the time especially since Nixon resigned in disgrace several years after these issues were published.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 10, 2019 19:23:17 GMT -5
Yeah, what was the timeline on this? I assumed it was in response to Watergate (as was Steve Englehart's Secret Empire storyline in Captain America) but it looks like these comics came out before Watergate was really a thing.
Honestly, this whole issue strikes me as 100% goof, and I'm fine with that. I suspect that Adams drew the president as an 8 year old girl because he thought it would be funny to draw the president as an eight year old girl.
(I STILL think it is pretty funny!)
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