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Post by EdoBosnar on Jan 30, 2019 4:41:16 GMT -5
Agree with pretty much everything codystarbuck said above.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 6:06:40 GMT -5
Agree with pretty much everything codystarbuck said above. Me too! I smiled when he referred to 2000 AD as a magazine, though. I'm not here to be pedantic or criticise his choice. It's just that I've never thought of it as a magazine. Then again, I'm the guy who absolutely states Deep Purple are not a metal band even though others claim they are. I voted for comic books, collected editions, pulps and novels. I mean, let's imagine a theme was "Spider-Man pose". The novel Spider-Man: City in Darkness would be a good cover to share. It'd be frustrating to exclude it because it's a novel. Some collected editions do have great covers. There are some which I am almost certain feature original covers rather than representations of comics. There are some great pulp covers. I've found this forum to be engaging, friendly, chilled out, etc. And unlike some forums, there aren't pedantic folk who will try to circumnavigate the rules just so they can prove their 'superiority' (I asked for favourite animal in sci-fi once, on another forum, and someone chose Captain Kirk because, well, humans are animals; naturally, although I should have been clearer with the rules, I did mean non-human animals, but this wasn't a legitimate choice by a person, it was just a "Look how clever I am" attempt to show off). This forum isn't like that, so even if the covers chosen fall outside the remit slightly, they are chosen in good faith. Chad William chose a pulp cover, but he did it in good faith. Magazines is a tricky one. If it's one of those vintage sci-fi magazines, telling original stories inside, I think that's great; if it's a cover of, say, Wizard, then that seems irrelevant.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 30, 2019 7:15:06 GMT -5
I’d rather include everything than have another separate contest that will have low participation.
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,959
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Post by Crimebuster on Jan 30, 2019 9:14:53 GMT -5
I personally don't really see a need for rules lawyering. We all know what the rules are; if someone posts a cover that isn't allowed, or doesn't fit that week's theme, we can all opt to not vote for it. I can't think of any instance where a cover that broke the rules, such as a book or pulp cover, came close to winning the contest, and often they don't receive any votes.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jan 30, 2019 9:18:00 GMT -5
I chose a lot of options (everything other than Novels, Art Books and BLB). since anything that reads like a comic or magazine I have no issue with including.Banning is the wrong way in my opinion .. if you don't think it fits? don't vote for it. problem solved. This is how I see it. And for the fact that I didn't even know the Shadow cover was a pulp and not a comic so *shrugs* If you don't approve of the format, just don't vote for it maybe? But ultimately this is my consensus.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 30, 2019 9:33:55 GMT -5
I think Big Little Books should get a pass for the contest, since superhero comics characters such as Batman, Aquaman and The Fantastic Four have all been BLB subjects during the 1960s.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 9:46:00 GMT -5
I think it's good that we may potentially broaden the scope. I have seen very few pulp covers, for instance.
The John Byrne Forum is the place to go if you want strict *must-never-break* rules (and if you mistakenly break them, or don't know you've broken them, a mod will delete a post and not tell you why). Here, it's more open and flexible, which is good.
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Post by foxley on Jan 30, 2019 11:10:47 GMT -5
Maybe I'm the odd person out, but I like the structure and clarity that rules lend to things.
I would really prefer that the contest be about comics (or, more broadly sequential art, if you prefer) than things that definitely aren't like pulps or novels. Where do you draw the line? Posters? LPs? Screenshots from movies?
But that's just me.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 11:15:31 GMT -5
Maybe I'm the odd person out, but I like the structure and clarity that rules lend to things. I would really prefer that the contest be about comics (or, more broadly sequential art, if you prefer) than things that definitely aren't like pulps or novels. Where do you draw the line? Posters? LPs? Screenshots from movies? But that's just me. I wouldn't advocate posters, LPs, movie screenshots, etc. For me, as long as there's a story inside, visual or text, I'm fine. But I appreciate everyone has their viewpoint.
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Post by chadwilliam on Jan 30, 2019 11:33:50 GMT -5
While the contest is focused on covers, I think the rule for what's acceptable should be based entirely upon the interiors. That is, if the cover's removed and you still have something which contains drawn/painted pictures and text working in tandem with one another (as opposed to pulps which I believe pushed whatever images they contained off to the side from the text) then it counts. I don't think it should matter if the contents are part of a magazine, giveaway, ashcan; are in black and white or color; pencilled by Rob Liefeld. Of course, there were comics which were silent; contained only photos with word balloons; and I think I recall hearing about a Lobo comic which had nothing but blank pages ('The Wisdom of Lobo' or something like that) which I think most of us wouldn't bat an eye at since I imagine that 90% of the time, we know what a comic is when we see it.
As for 'let people post what they want and if you don't agree, don't vote for it' - that sounds perfect, except there have been a few occasions when Poster B offers something which doesn't match the thread's intent which leads to Poster C emulating Poster B and then Poster D...
Anyhoo…
Did someone really post a Pulp cover in the latest contest? Unbelievable. I don't care how devilishly handsome and beloved this poster is, that is unacceptable and frightening.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 30, 2019 12:19:54 GMT -5
Here's the thing; ultimately, this is for fun and there is no prize of cash value. If we win, it is because a majority voted for our cover, which is great. I don't see a need for tight, restrictive rules, since nothing but ego and adulation is at stake. If we were giving away something with cash value, then I would advocate strict guidelines. For this, all we end up doing is making things so narrow that you limit the variety. With that said, I doubt anyone who consider a work of prose fiction or one with spot illustrations, like a Scribner's Edition of Treasure Island, for example. To me, a pulp novel is still a prose work. It is an antecedent to comics in providing inspiration for characters and story structure; but, they only had spot illustrations, just like a Scribner's. A picture book is a debatable point, since words and pictures are working together to tell the story,across the entire length of the book. It is a sequence of events and the only real difference between Dr Seuss and Jeff Smith is the number of illustrations used in the story, and text dialogue vs word balloons. Newspaper comic strips and trade collections would also tend to fall on the side of a comic book and they are the real antecedent of the form of the comic book. A proto-graphic novel, like Blackmark, or It Rhymes with Lust would seem to fit, as sequential narratives. A Big Little Book is a definite fence sitter. If you consider it a comic, then picture books pass that same test. If you allow it just because comic book and omic strip characters appeared in them, then juvenile superhero picture books or superhero prose novels would seem to also apply. heck, movie posters should then be fair game.
See what I mean? For every rule, we would probably generate a lot of "Well, what about...." I', happy with, "If you don't think it fits, don't vote for it." Plain and simple and gives wiggle room, where appropriate. To be honest, I don't usually vote in the contests or post likes. I appreciate what everyone brings to things; but, don't want to create a situation of "Why did he like that one but not mine, or why did he vote for that cover?" I have a blanket "like" for everyone who participates in a discussion and posts an image for everyone to enjoy.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 12:29:04 GMT -5
Cody, I feel like proposing to you after reading that reply!
I mean, if I saw an LP cover, I simply would enjoy the image for a nanosecond and move on. I wouldn't vote for it. But if in a topic, someone posted a novel cover, and it really suited the topic, I'd vote for it.
For every rule, you will no doubt find a counter-rule. If we chose "Best James Bond Film", someone might include The Return of the Man From UNCLE because a character called JB, played by George Lazenby, appeared in it. Sure, it'd be a cheat - it most certainly isn't a true Bond film - but someone might opt to include it. Not on this forum, speaking hypothetically.
So I'd echo what you said: "If you don't think it fits, don't vote for it."
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Post by kirby101 on Jan 30, 2019 15:33:25 GMT -5
Comic books, Graphic Novels and Magazines like SSOC or Creepy, but not industry magazines like Wizard.
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Post by Rob Allen on Jan 30, 2019 16:10:43 GMT -5
Rather than hashing out the details ourselves, we could use a neutral third party. How about a rule like "anything that's indexed in the GCD (https://www.comics.org/) is eligible"? (The cover itself wouldn't have to be in the GCD, just the publication index)
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Post by berkley on Jan 30, 2019 19:05:08 GMT -5
Rather than hashing out the details ourselves, we could use a neutral third party. How about a rule like "anything that's indexed in the GCD (https://www.comics.org/) is eligible"? (The cover itself wouldn't have to be in the GCD, just the publication index) Would save a lot of arguments and pointless discussion about what does or does not qualify!
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