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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 14, 2019 11:38:52 GMT -5
I finished Batgirl: Redemption and I liked it better as I went along. Cassandra is growing on me quite a bit. Her personality, her emotional vulnerability and her relationship with the other members of the Bat-Family offset my feelings toward Deathstroke (one of my least favorite villains) and David Cain (he is so boring!).
I just checked my library record and Batgirl: Year One is ready for pick-up, as is The Greatest Batgirl Stories Ever Told, which includes "Folie a deux!" from Legends of the DC Universe #10 and #11. "Folie a deux" and "Batgirl: Year One" are both included on Brian Cronin's "Top Ten Barbara Gordon Stories" list.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 15, 2019 23:48:12 GMT -5
I've read the first two issues of Batgirl: Year One, and I'm liking it well enough. So happy to see them using Detective Comics #359 as a starting point!
Still … I'm kind of disappointed that they went the route of having Barbara Gordon become a super-hero mostly as way to prove herself to the MEN! Ugh!
I also don't remember Barbara Gordon being portrayed as practically a midget. Is this a post-Crisis development, or is Batgirl being portrayed as really little only for Batgirl: Year One?
I'll just accept that Batgirl is a midget for Year One. And hopefully, they'll play down Barbara's rather labored desire to prove herself to all the MEN! in later issues.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 15, 2019 23:51:42 GMT -5
And I read Batman #197 a few nights ago. Some prime Silver Age silliness right here! Jealous of Batgirl, Catwoman is now trying to get Batman's attention by turning over a new leaf and becoming a crime-fighter! Love the Frank Springer/Sid Greene art!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 16, 2019 11:04:39 GMT -5
I did really enjoy the late '90s early '00s Batgirl series when I read it in trades a couple years later.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 16, 2019 11:40:02 GMT -5
I did really enjoy the late '90s early '00s Batgirl series when I read it in trades a couple years later. Is that the Cassandra Cain Batgirl? I read the Redemption TPB recently and also Batgirl #50 to #52, and I got the Fists of Fury TPB from the library, but I haven't read it yet. Cass has grown on me over the years. I'm glad I'm reading a few more of her adventures lately.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 16, 2019 14:00:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I read maybe the first 20-25 issues in TPB. Then there was a Batgirl series I barely remember, and then the New 52.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 18, 2019 12:25:58 GMT -5
I read Batgirl: Year One #5 last night, so I'm about halfway through the series, and I can't say I'm very impressed. I like the art. I like the way the writers are focusing on Killer Moth instead of one of the more well known members of the Batman Rogues Gallery. But there is too much dumb stuff. And some of the dumb stuff is pretty dumb! I've already mentioned that Barbara Gordon is not a midget. The set-up for the cliffhanger at the end of #3 is really dumb. I don't like Batman having to swoop in and save BG two or three times per issue, and Batgirl's "I'll show the BOYS I can do it!" attitude is making me cringe. (And I'll bet it was fairly cringeworthy in 2003 as well. Hey, Batgirl: Year One! The 1980s called and they want their cliché back!) But I could forgive that stuff (mostly) and overlook it (mostly) if that reason for the cliffhanger wasn't so stupid. Batgirl had decided she needs to learn to swing around Gotham the way THE BOYS do, so she doesn't practice or anything, she just orders some wire and grappling stuff through the mail and then jumps off the highest building in Gotham City. Because Barbara Gordon in the Year One Universe isn't very smart. The test says she's smart, but the actual writing doesn't support this assertion. So Batman has to save her. I get very annoyed when people point at goofy stuff in old comics and act like the modern comic-book audiences are more sophisticated. Because modern comics are full of dumb stuff! And this is a perfect example of some dumb stuff on a modern comic that is woefully inferior to the source material. Batgirl does not need to swing around Gotham City to get around. If she does need to do that, then there are better ways to train for it than throwing yourself off a building. Let's see, can we come up with a better way to get around Gotham City that doesn't involve throwing yourself off a building when you aren't trained for it and haven't tested your equipment? Maybe a vehicle of some kind? Like … a motorcycle! Oh. Wait. Yeah, they did that in the Silver Age! So instead of a whole detailed sequence about Batgirl throwing herself off a building and having to be saved by Batman, maybe the series should have included a sequence where Batgirl figures out (on her own!) that she might need a motorcycle! If it's absolutely necessary for Batman to save her all the time, it would be very nice to develop this theme from a situation that makes sense. She's new at this, so she will make mistakes, so maybe Batman could save her from some bad guys who cause her to have an accident. If it's necessary! But let's try to move away from dumb stuff where Batman has to save her because she's deeply stupid and has absolutely no business putting on a mask and being a vigilante. I also didn't much like Killer Moth and Firefly teaming up. It was nice to see Polka-Dot Man for a few panels. What a whacko!
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 21, 2019 12:22:25 GMT -5
I finished Batgirl: Fists of Fury this morning and, so far, it's my favorite Cassandra Cain storyline. Very nice use of the Spoiler and Oracle. And it ends with a few dangling threads, so I'll be checking to see if the library has the next TPB collection.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 22, 2019 20:23:43 GMT -5
This came in the mail today and I read it slowly at a coffee shop. The gist of it is, Batgirl had a bad experience against an assassin known as the Cormorant (in Detective Comics #491 and #492) and she's feeling rather lukewarm about soldiering on as Batgirl because she's noticed that Batgirling is dangerous. But she has to stop the Cormorant before she can hang up her bat suit. There's also a serial murderer known as Slash going around and killing accused rapists/abusers who have never been punished for their crimes. Batgirl rather stubbornly sticks to the idea that these murders are being committed by Cormorant. And a heretofore unknown (as far as I know) friend of Barbara Gordon shows up after years apart to chide Barbara about her Batgirl identity because it's so dangerous. At the end, Barbara decides to give up her Batgirl identity and solve crimes with her analytical ability. And guess what's advertised in this issue? The Killing Joke! On sale in April! I've been disappointed in several of the post-Crisis Batgirl stories that I heard might be candidates for a Top Ten (notably Batgirl: Year One and Folie a Deux (in Legends of the DC Universe #10 and #11)). I liked "The Last Batgirl Story" a lot better than either of those. I don't like the idea of Barbara giving up as Batgirl, but it's not a bone-stupid idea or a tiresome cliché like some of the story elements I objected to in Batgirl: Year One. Giving up as Batgirl actually seems like a common-sense idea! She mentions being in Congress, so this version of Batgirl is not the current "Barbara in her early 20s" Batgirl or the "I'm a very tiny Batgirl with no dang sense at all" Batgirl of Batgirl: Year One. I think Batgirl in "The Last Batgirl Story" is Barbara Gordon in her 30s, and she's been Batgirl for as much as ten or twelve years. And that would wear anyone out! I like the way that "The Last Batgirl Story" is kind of like a police procedural, but with Batgirl missing the big picture because she is too focused on Cormorant. It develops naturally from a murder in the library to a much more complicated situation, with Babs doing the police work through much of the issue, but also able to administer the beatdown when the time comes. I'm definitely considering this one a contender for my Top Ten Favorite Batgirl Stories list.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 22, 2019 20:35:35 GMT -5
I'm getting pretty close to the time when I'll stop reading stories that I've considered as candidates for the Top Ten. Thanks for all the suggestions! I was unable to find "The Bat and the Cat," but that will give me something to look forward to in the future.
For my Top Ten, I've decided to consider only "Barbara Gordon as Batgirl" stories. No Oracle, no Betty Kane, no Cass, no Steph. However, I will be posting a separate list with my favorite single storyline for each of these characters.
And I'm still planning on reading several beloved classics featuring Silver Age Batgirl before I start making the list.
Let's see, there's "The Supergirl-Batgirl Plot" from World's Finest #169. It's only been a few months since the last time I read this. I read it all the time. This story is so crazy!
And then there's "In the Coils of Copperhead" from The Brave and the Bold #78. I read this one a lot too. Probably not as much as WF #169.
And finally "Winged Warriors of the Immortal Queen" from JLA #60. I love this one as well. Queen Bee is awesome! She should have been the villain in the Justice League movie. It would probably have still sucked but it would have sucked in a good way instead of being so boring for more than two hours.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 0:02:11 GMT -5
For my Top Ten, I've decided to consider only "Barbara Gordon as Batgirl" stories. No Oracle, no Betty Kane, no Cass, no Steph. However, I will be posting a separate list with my favorite single storyline for each of these characters. That's would be an interesting list to see and compile.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 25, 2019 21:48:44 GMT -5
I've only got a few more Silver Age Batgirl appearances to re-read before I start making my "Top Ten Favorite Batgirl Stories" list. Last night I read Justice League of America #60. I love this comic! Goofy Silver Age Mike Sekowsky art and Batgirl is the guest star and Queen Bee is the villain! I love Queen Bee so much! But I'm not sure this is going to make it on to the Top Ten. I love it as much as I ever did (which is a lot!) but this is Queen Bee's show! It's nice to see Batgirl as the guest star and she has some great scenes early on, but once she is turned into a tiny winged warrier by crazy Queen Zazzala, Batgirl doesn't have all that much to do. She helps Batman and Green Arrow get radioactive water from a magic pool in another dimension. Or something. You know. Silver Age Justice League stuff. It's best not to ask questions.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2019 23:32:09 GMT -5
That's a fun story to read and that's one of Sekowsky better work as an artist and it's has that charm and appeal that I liked so much. I can see the goofiest that you've mentioned here Hoosier X and I've no problems with it. Justice League of America #60 is one of my favorites and always be.
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 26, 2019 11:19:00 GMT -5
I read The Brave and the Bold #78 a few weeks ago, just before I decided to make a Top Ten Batgirl Stories list, and I had no trouble reading it again since starting the project. Copperhead is one of Batman's wiliest foes and he is humiliating Batman and the GCPD by committing his crimes successfully under the noses of the city's protectors. But Batman a brilliant Silver Age Batman plan - Wonder Woman and Batgirl will pretend to be in love with the Caped Crusader and act like goopy lovesick females and while Batman pretends to be preoccupied, Copperhead will get overconfident and careless! Complications ensue when Wonder Woman and Batgirl really fall in love with Batman! Of course it's a Bob Haney story! And I love the Bob Brown art!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 12:10:54 GMT -5
I read The Brave and the Bold #78 a few weeks ago, just before I decided to make a Top Ten Batgirl Stories list, and I had no trouble reading it again since starting the project. Copperhead is one of Batman's wiliest foes and he is humiliating Batman and the GCPD by committing his crimes successfully under the noses of the city's protectors. But Batman a brilliant Silver Age Batman plan - Wonder Woman and Batgirl will pretend to be in love with the Caped Crusader and act like goopy lovesick females and while Batman pretends to be preoccupied, Copperhead will get overconfident and careless! Complications ensue when Wonder Woman and Batgirl really fall in love with Batman! Of course it's a Bob Haney story! And I love the Bob Brown art! This is another winner here.
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