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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 5, 2019 0:33:43 GMT -5
I was reading some original Valiant this week, and the Dan Jurgens Solar stuck me. In it, he's got a Captain America analogue as President, who then gets murdered, and his Superman analogue (who seems to have the personality of Frank Castle) takes over.
It's not a great story by any means, but it is a cool concept that has been tried a couple times since, but not well.. seems like the set up here could have been a really interesting 'heroes in charge' type scenario where they think they are doing good, but simply failing.
Seems like whatever plans to continue it didn't pan out...or did it turn up somewhere else?
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Post by hondobrode on Mar 5, 2019 0:50:53 GMT -5
It's literally been decades since I read it.
When I get the collection sorted and straightened out, I'll definitely be re-reading this.
Jurgens run was pretty good.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 15:03:25 GMT -5
I was reading some original Valiant this week, and the Dan Jurgens Solar stuck me. In it, he's got a Captain America analogue as President, who then gets murdered, and his Superman analogue (who seems to have the personality of Frank Castle) takes over. It's not a great story by any means, but it is a cool concept that has been tried a couple times since, but not well.. seems like the set up here could have been a really interesting 'heroes in charge' type scenario where they think they are doing good, but simply failing. Seems like whatever plans to continue it didn't pan out...or did it turn up somewhere else? Are you talking about Birthquake? If so I think that was 4 yrs into Valiant Comics history (1995). Acclaim had bought them and decided to revamp the line to boost sales. It didn't work and within a year (1996) Valiant closed. It was relaunched as Acclaim Comics but that only lasted about 2 years. It wasn't until 2012 when the new Valiant Comics was reborn. |
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Post by hondobrode on Mar 6, 2019 1:46:00 GMT -5
Jurgens wrote Solar Man of the Atom # 46-54.
The series' last issue was # 60.
He and Giordano were on art up until the last 4 of Jurgens' run when Tom Grindberg penciled and we got that Neal Adams vibe going on.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 6, 2019 4:07:43 GMT -5
I was reading some original Valiant this week, and the Dan Jurgens Solar stuck me. In it, he's got a Captain America analogue as President, who then gets murdered, and his Superman analogue (who seems to have the personality of Frank Castle) takes over. It's not a great story by any means, but it is a cool concept that has been tried a couple times since, but not well.. seems like the set up here could have been a really interesting 'heroes in charge' type scenario where they think they are doing good, but simply failing. Seems like whatever plans to continue it didn't pan out...or did it turn up somewhere else? Are you talking about Birthquake? If so I think that was 4 yrs into Valiant Comics history (1995). Acclaim had bought them and decided to revamp the line to boost sales. It didn't work and within a year (1996) Valiant closed. It was relaunched as Acclaim Comics but that only lasted about 2 years. It wasn't until 2012 when the new Valiant Comics was reborn. That's so weird. Valiant was a BIG DAMN DEAL for a second there, unless back-issues of Wizard magazine I got for a quarter lied to me. Strange they only had a couple year run. |
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Post by Duragizer on Mar 6, 2019 5:08:37 GMT -5
Are you talking about Birthquake? If so I think that was 4 yrs into Valiant Comics history (1995). Acclaim had bought them and decided to revamp the line to boost sales. It didn't work and within a year (1996) Valiant closed. It was relaunched as Acclaim Comics but that only lasted about 2 years. It wasn't until 2012 when the new Valiant Comics was reborn. That's so weird. Valiant was a BIG DAMN DEAL for a second there, unless back-issues of Wizard magazine I got for a quarter lied to me. Strange they only had a couple year run. From what I've read, the ill-conceived Deathmate crossover with Image ultimately did them in. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 6, 2019 5:34:57 GMT -5
Heh. Deathmate. Was Violenceboobs too subtle?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 8:04:14 GMT -5
Valiant existed 1991-1996. Relaunched under Acclaim Comics name 1996-1999 (although there was only a few one shots after 1998). Deathmate was one of several bad decisions that led to Valiant's demise.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Mar 6, 2019 8:54:08 GMT -5
Yeah, the house ads for Jurgens' run start talking about Acclaim, though no sign of a re-boot yet.
I didn't read any of the original Valiant when it came out... I came on when they did the Acclaim re-boot.. mostly because of Troublemakers (which had nothing to do with the original).. someone good wrote the X_O reboot, too.. Waid maybe?
It does seem with Solar they were already re-doing things.. I wonder why they nuked one reboot to start another? Seems like they could have easily just had new #1 after Jurgens' reset.
I guess reboots and new #1s were still a big deal back then.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 6, 2019 10:23:18 GMT -5
That's so weird. Valiant was a BIG DAMN DEAL for a second there, unless back-issues of Wizard magazine I got for a quarter lied to me. Strange they only had a couple year run. From what I've read, the ill-conceived Deathmate crossover with Image ultimately did them in. While Deathmate definitely cost them some fans, as well as some key support within the industry, it was Acclaim's mismanagement of the books after their acquisition that really did Valiant in. Acclaim wanted to use the books as a basis for cross-media videogame properties, and it only ended up working in the case of Turok. Telling a good story was not a priority; getting kids excited about a simple/accessible character with mass appeal took precedence. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 12:45:10 GMT -5
Yeah, the house ads for Jurgens' run start talking about Acclaim, though no sign of a re-boot yet. I didn't read any of the original Valiant when it came out... I came on when they did the Acclaim re-boot.. mostly because of Troublemakers (which had nothing to do with the original).. someone good wrote the X_O reboot, too.. Waid maybe? It does seem with Solar they were already re-doing things.. I wonder why they nuked one reboot to start another? Seems like they could have easily just had new #1 after Jurgens' reset. I guess reboots and new #1s were still a big deal back then. Well the Birthquake reboot you talking about with Solar was a "soft" reboot with the same characters. The Acclaim reboot was very different versions of the characters with the same names. Sort of a DC E-1/E-2 situation. In fact the Acclaim Comics tagline was AC/VH - Acclaim Comics Valiant Heroes. Fans called it VH2. And Waid did the X-O reboot. Instead of "Conan in a can" Aric it was now Donovan Wylie scientist experimenting on a recently unearthed WW II armor (which had alien origins). |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 6, 2019 13:32:49 GMT -5
They first started to spring a leak when they ousted Jim Shooter. That Deathmate crossover hurt them for sure, but they didn't have a creator steering the ship at that point. I remember going to comic shows near the end of their and they were selling issues of Solar in the 30's for 50 cents each. The speculator hurricane was almost at its end at that time.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 6, 2019 17:55:31 GMT -5
They first started to spring a leak when they ousted Jim Shooter. That Deathmate crossover hurt them for sure, but they didn't have a creator steering the ship at that point. I remember going to comic shows near the end of their and they were selling issues of Solar in the 30's for 50 cents each. The speculator hurricane was almost at its end at that time. Depends on your definition of "springing a leak". Creatively, a lot was lost with Shooter's departure, though I would argue Magnus and Rai got stronger, Solar maintained its quality, and Eternal Warrior, Archer & Armstrong, Bloodshot, Doctor Mirage, and Time Walker all came after his departure and were of relatively high quality. From a business perspective, Valiant hit its apex well after Shooter's departure, partially because they threw him out just as they were starting to get noticed, partially because some of their marketing tricks were truly innovative, and partially because most of their books were still of a higher quality than anything Marvel or Image was churning out at the time, even if some of the core titles were long past their prime (X-O and Harbinger, in particular). Harbinger was my favorite Valiant title at the time. I mourned Shooter's departure. Solar was my favorite title to re-read in my twenties. Shooter's departure really didn't affect the quality at all. Magnus was my favorite title to re-read in my thirties. Shooter's departure opened the door for Ostrander and Michelinie. Good riddance, Jim. I just turned 40 last month, so we'll see how I feel towards Shooter's departure now  |
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Post by hondobrode on Mar 6, 2019 22:46:27 GMT -5
I'm behind on current Valiant, but honestly, it's the best version yet. Loved the original, the second was a mixed bag (highlights being Solar, Shadowman, Troublemakers as good as New Mutants any day, and I really liked the 12 issue Dr Tomorrow) and crushed that current Valiant is < 1 % of the market. I'm thinking of catching up on the back issues and staying current. Thinking about this recently, I think part of why they're not more popular is a lack of well defined villains. Characters are great but part of what truly makes them great is great villain counterparts. I've pretty much not read 99 % of Marvel from the last 20 years and I'm slipping more from DC under Didio and Lee. Reading 2 limited series now and 3 regulars, the least I think I've ever read. Valiant is still evolving and pretty fresh. They're not creatively hitting the wall like I feel the other two have after decades and decades and wildly contradictory characterization and continuity. Rai, Imperium and Timewalker are some of the best comics I've ever read. I sometimes couldn't stop reading the issues. When was the last time you felt that way about a series ?
Update : As a matter of fact I went through my Valiants and found my collected Bloodshot Reborn volumes. I remember them being so good. Re-reading volume 1 now.
Incredible
Really eager to see the upcoming movie.
If it's half as good as the comic it's going to be great.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Mar 7, 2019 8:56:25 GMT -5
I'm behind on current Valiant, but honestly, it's the best version yet. Loved the original, the second was a mixed bag (highlights being Solar, Shadowman, Troublemakers as good as New Mutants any day, and I really liked the 12 issue Dr Tomorrow) and crushed that current Valiant is < 1 % of the market. I'm thinking of catching up on the back issues and staying current. Thinking about this recently, I think part of why they're not more popular is a lack of well defined villains. Characters are great but part of what truly makes them great is great villain counterparts. I've pretty much not read 99 % of Marvel from the last 20 years and I'm slipping more from DC under Didio and Lee. Reading 2 limited series now and 3 regulars, the least I think I've ever read. Valiant is still evolving and pretty fresh. They're not creatively hitting the wall like I feel the other two have after decades and decades and wildly contradictory characterization and continuity. I used to think that what I wanted most from a comic book company was a willingness to let characters evolve and for the parameters of a franchise to evolve in response, but I've since come to believe Valiant does this too much. They don't shake up the status quo -- there is no status quo. Everything changes all the time to the point that it's almost numbing. Publishing wise, this means books go into hiatus as characters disappear for long periods of time, and then the books come back with new titles and numbering when they are on to a new character arc. So both creatively and in terms of publishing, it's really really confusing to keep up with, and there is no sense of stability -- no central characters you can count upon seeing month, after month, and in a familiar context. I think that hurts Valiant badly. It may score well with their die-hard base, but it makes the franchises pretty hard to latch on to. SOME change is good; change as a constant is bewildering. |
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