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Post by badwolf on Apr 4, 2019 14:12:59 GMT -5
When and how did Gar go from being purple to green?
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Post by brutalis on Apr 4, 2019 14:14:46 GMT -5
Teen Titans #1 was sooo much of what I wanted to read in a comic book. Heroes you knew and liked with Robin, Wonder Girl and Kid Flash along with some curiosity over the newbies and Changeling becoming a real hero and not just a joke or silly punk along for the ride (as he seemed to be in DP) and playing the sarcastic/funny card so many of us utilized in coping with life as teens. In addition you now have aliens and science-fiction/fantasy aspects in the mix and Wolfman/Perez who were already established veterans at Marvel doing their best work (so it feels) while avoiding the trap of bringing the team straight into the DCU with confronting already established villain conflicts. It perfectly captures the mix of teen angst while also delivering Star Wars sized entertainment.
This was dive right in and join the party and come along for a fast and series. Marv and George kept the stories flowing smoothly while delivering characters you wanted to read and know more about.You had no real chance to catch your breath or think too much (was that really a star ship full of aliens they just had destroyed, did Raven use magic on Wally and Dick to "force" them into helping her) before being thrust into something new. I can forgive some of the slight missed steps out of the gate while rushing to create something new that they were hoping would catch on. And boy did Titans become a hot property almost instantly. I know that unless you had a pull box at the LCS's around town then you were out of luck and running all over town checking the Circle-K and 7-11 stores in searching out issues. Titans quickly was up on the LCS behind the counter wall bagged and over-priced!!! But the series was so good people were all willing to pay that inflated pricing to have it.
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Post by brutalis on Apr 4, 2019 14:17:39 GMT -5
When and how did Gar go from being purple to green? Gar Logan was never purple, he was always green. The "Purple" was a mask he wore when adventuring to "hide" his identity. How successful that is when various green animals are suddenly appearing all over the city and you are the only green person in town? 1+1 should still equal 2 right?!?
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 4, 2019 14:30:30 GMT -5
I could be mistaken, but I think that, within the comic, they only refer to themselves as "Titans" not "Teen Titans". So, maybe they should have called the book "The New Titans" or simply "The Titans" if Wolfman really didn't want to evoke the original Teen Titans. Of course, they would eventually get around to that... They do mention the "Teen Titans" and this being a "new Teen Titans" once in the story, but you're right that they generally just call themselves The Titans from this point forward. I guess DC was just looking to maintain the trademark on the outside of the book.
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Post by Chris on Apr 4, 2019 15:18:37 GMT -5
New Teen Titans #1 (November 1980) As a fan of the original Teen Titans, I would have liked a little more of an acknowledgement and loving nod to what went before, but apparently no one at DC was feeling any love for the original property at this point, so that's kind of forgivable. Of course, why call it "The New Teen Titans" then? Why not a new name entirely? That "Teen" bit was going to cause a lot of confusion and limitation for Wolfman and Perez in the years to come anyway. I could be mistaken, but I think that, within the comic, they only refer to themselves as "Titans" not "Teen Titans". So, maybe they should have called the book "The New Titans" or simply "The Titans" if Wolfman really didn't want to evoke the original Teen Titans. Of course, they would eventually get around to that... From an interview with Marv Wolfman in The Comics Journal #79 (interview conducted in Jan 1982, appeared in print cover dated Jan 1983), which can be read here - DWIGHT R. DECKER: Have you considered the fact that “teenagehood’-‘ doesn’t last very long? Marv WOLFMAN: Yeah. DECKER: There’s only about four years there and if you stretch it out in comic book time… WOLFMAN: It is a problem. I don’t know what will happen. I assume, since I’ve just given Cyborg a birthday in which he becomes 19, they are going to have to become 20 and 21. Maybe I don’t have to say it, they could just start acting differently. Nor really differently but progressing beyond the initial worries that a teenager may have. They don’t really change, they just focus differently. From peer pressure to business pressure. But that has to happen eventually, I just don’t know how to get around it. Fortunately we’re still young in the book’s history. DECKER: Well you’ll always have the title NEW Teen Titans… WOLFMAN: Well that’s because we had an old Teen Titans… DECKER: What I meant was that… WOLFMAN: I can’t take our Teen, for very totally different reasons. Neal Adams registered or trademarked something called The Titans for his portfolio and we could nor technically take out the word teen. So it will always be the Teen Titans, even if they are 80 years old. That same issue of the Journal had an interview with George Perez, but I don't see it on that site. They do have other interviews with Wolfman and Perez, though, found here and here.
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 4, 2019 15:44:15 GMT -5
Nice review, shaxper. These are my thoughts - 1. Apparently Raven has assembled these particular characters because she knows that they are all feeling disenfranchised and thus would be easy to manipulate. Robin is having issues with Batman, Cyborg is angry at the world, Changeling has no purpose as a rich kid and Starfire would be grateful for being rescued from human trafficking. 2. There's no doubt in my mind that Kflash is being entranced, he looks like he's going through the Vulcan Ponfar in this panel. 3. Yeah, It seemed harsh wiring the Giodanians ship to explode but they were using lethal force and just maybe Raven " influenced " that action. 4. Changeling was my favorite character ( along KFlash) of the series. He just cracked me up. 5. - The New Teen Titans form for the first time, even though this is their second appearance. Wrap your head around that one.I am willing to go out on a limb and say that the preview never actually happened. It was a recurring fictional dream planted in Robins head because he was the key piece in the Team. 6. - Partial origin of Starfire / Koriand'r (yes, Wolfman concedes he stole the name from his spice rack). She's an alien princess who has escaped alien slavers who place a high monetary value on her. I love her best in this first appearance: fierce, determined, and driven. I feel like she loses much of this once she becomes a Titan:
I disagree. I think she is vicious and fierce throughout the series and never loses that quality, but tempers it to fit in with her new " family ". 7. Unlike some of the posters here, I was never a fan of the original series and was glad for the slight reboots of the characters. I consider the story an 'A" and enjoy the planting of subplots and the general Mystery surrounding Raven.
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 4, 2019 15:46:31 GMT -5
One more thing. I remember reading the they were not allowed to use the title 'TITANS" at the time , because it was copywrited by Neal Adams. Wolfman did a nice job of writing them as young adults regardless.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 4, 2019 15:53:45 GMT -5
Awesome find, Chris. Thanks! WOLFMAN: I can’t take our Teen, for very totally different reasons. Neal Adams registered or trademarked something called The Titans for his portfolio and we could nor technically take out the word teen. So it will always be the Teen Titans, even if they are 80 years old. And yet, there eventually was a "The Titans" book somehow. And "Team Titans" totally worked for me too. Or, ya know, "The Protectors," or some other non-Titans name.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Apr 4, 2019 15:56:32 GMT -5
Nice review, shaxper. These are my thoughts - 1. Apparently Raven has assembled these particular characters because she knows that they are all feeling disenfranchised and thus would be easy to manipulate. Robin is having issues with Batman, Cyborg is angry at the world, Changeling has no purpose as a rich kid and Starfire would be grateful for being rescued from human trafficking. Wow. That really works. Disturbingly well. Oh, that's definitely the case. Thus it's the second appearance of the team in a comic book, but the first time they are meeting.
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 4, 2019 18:49:09 GMT -5
More from Perez--this time, about Robin, from The Titans Companion: GP: "Robin of course [had an] iconic costume. There was no changing him, especially since at the time, he was still tied to the Batman series, so there was no change that could be done with him. I did use Burt Ward's interpretation of Robin as my touchstone there, as did the comics, since he had long since gone away from the sweptback hair with the two curls." "His hair swept from the side, [and] I kept that in there. The only thing I would eventually do on the Robin costume--upon request, actually, from the other artists who were drawing it [in] the other books--is simplify the lacing, where I had a lot of laces on his tunic, and then eventually get down to just three or four in order to have a more streamlined look to the character so he wouldn't look quite as busy in the cheat area."The important takeaway here is that Perez (and Wolfman, obviously) did not base Robin/Grayson's personality on Burt Ward's interpretation; this was an early visual choice, but right out of the gates, I noticed that the NTT/Perez Robin's look matured beyond the mid-60s Ward (and Infantino) look, as seen in this progression of images: LEFT: Burt Ward in costume, from a late 1965 publicity photo in advance of the January, 1966 premiere of the Batman TV series. MIDDLE: One of Ward's mid-1970s photos mass produced for his personal appearances. Note he styled his hair to be generally contemporary to the era, instead of trying to wear a decade-old hairstyle. RIGHT: Perez's new Robin, from the cover of The New Teen Titans #5 (March, 1981). Perez states there was "no changing him," which I understood as meaning the traditional/Ward-influenced look, however, in addition to the reduction in tunic laces, the cape's collar was enlarged (even more than changes made by Novick, Adams, et al.), the costume was made to be the most form-fitting it had ever been up to that point, and certainly made Robin an undeniably muscular character, as opposed to the decidedly lean look of the character for more than 15 years at that point. Looking at the Perez Robin, no one would ever slip up and call him "Boy Wonder" ever again. In fact, if there was any remaining similarity between the Perez and Ward Robin, its the character sporting thicker hair, but that's purely coincidental, Perez would make the character's overall appearance as contemporary as possible. The changes went hand-in-hand with the serious leader Wolfman created, and that was one of this title's great additions: a Robin who behaved like a real, tough leader, as much as Superman or Batman in the JLA or Captain America in the Avengers. Despite maturing Robin in the late 60s/early 70s pages of Batman and Detective Comics, his handling in the original Teen Tians comic was not nearly as consistent (with what maturity brings as a leader personality) as it should have been. It interesting that as early as the changes occurred, other artists requested he modify Robin's costume; its as if he was seen as the default "master" of the character's "true" appearance which everyone else had to follow, when anyone else illustrating Robin (at the time) should have been granted as much freedom to explore those options.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 4, 2019 19:44:54 GMT -5
Awesome find, Chris. Thanks! WOLFMAN: I can’t take our Teen, for very totally different reasons. Neal Adams registered or trademarked something called The Titans for his portfolio and we could nor technically take out the word teen. So it will always be the Teen Titans, even if they are 80 years old. And yet, there eventually was a "The Titans" book somehow. And "Team Titans" totally worked for me too. Or, ya know, "The Protectors," or some other non-Titans name. Trademarks expire if they aren’t used.
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Post by rberman on Apr 4, 2019 21:44:57 GMT -5
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 4, 2019 22:03:27 GMT -5
Just a few comments -
I never really thought about the whole 'blowing up the aliens' thing before.. I wonder if that's because when I first read this it was 1994 or so and it wasn't a big deal?
I read this before the old Teen Titans, so I never made the Lilith conection.. the first time I'd heard of her is when she was mentioned in the letter cols.
Age wise, I always felt like Dick, Wally and Donna were 20-21 at this point.. but of course comics (especially Manga) have a long history of characters acting like and looking like adults but telling us they are teenagers because Marketing. I personally always referred to them as the Titans, and the sidekick version of the sixties the 'Teen Titans' in my head. Other than that first panel with Raven, I don't think they call themselves 'Teen' Titans again, if they do it's few and far between. I pictured Gar to be 2-3 years younger, but it occurs to me that a shape shift can look whatever age he wants, so perhaps he IS the same age, and just immature?
While the 'innocent alien' version of Starfire popularized on the cartoons then pulled into the DCU is fun, I agree her original persona is very more interesting and enjoyable to read. her and Nightwing will always be my favorite comic book couple.
It's amazing how much of the first few years of stories were started in the very first issue!
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Post by zaku on Apr 5, 2019 0:51:16 GMT -5
I just want to add that official 1982 DC art guide had Robin's vest with 4 laces
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Post by zaku on Apr 5, 2019 1:31:28 GMT -5
Err, by the way, where the heck does Robin keep his gadgets, considering that he hasn't an utility belt..?
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