When they're first introduced, that's the most likely assumption. They're bad guys, Zahl and Rouge are bad guys, so they're allies, right? But the Brain makes it clear pretty quickly that they are working against Rouge and Zahl. This is one aspect of the story that I actually didn't feel was too messy/laborious to follow.

Good to know it wasn't just me!



I guess I'm in the minority on the Doom Patrol thing. I wonder if the difference comes down to whether or not you cared about the DP prior to reading this story. I certainly didn't, and Wolfman did little to change that for me until that final page of this issue.

Plasmus was one of Zahl's failed experiments. that much is made clear.

My copy of NTT #16 doesn't have the Captain Carrot insert inside. So either a previous owner removed it or my copy was somehow defective. I''m curious about what happened.



The biggest consecutive run of NTT I've read in order might be 5 issues. I put together my run out of order, and read them out of order. There are some issues (like #2 and at least one part of the Doom Patrol arc) that I'm pretty sure I've never read before this thread. But this story is definitely one I distinctly remember.




Koriand'r is taking a big risk smacking Robin like this. He's got no powers! Really shocking.




Yes, this is some welcome development. The aftermath of the Hyperion story for Donna wasn't resonating with me. Maybe that subplot could've been done well, but as is, it's probably good to move on rather than playing it out longer. It's cool to get a sense of Donna's interaction with her female teammates. Although most of their interactions are about a guy, a lot of this story is built around how Donna and Koriand'r relate to each other.


Definitely mom and dad of the group.



Even though this story is really well-executed, this issue is sort of what I was talking about when I suggested Wolfman's writing on NTT was simpler in some ways than Claremont on X-Men. This is a story that seems like it should play out over multiple issues. But Wolfman and Perez fit it into one issue with the help of flashbacks and exposition about past events. We'll see how this plays out, but I don't recall implications of this story playing out in later issues. So there's an emotional powerful issue, which should have big implications for a character, but it's seemingly handled in a one-and-done fashion. It is a really good story for Kory who is passionate yet naive of the ways of the world. Of course, at the same time, she's battle-hardened, but she was basically slotted into a certainly role without the normal life that comes from freedom.



That storytelling has it's pros and cons. I think it's nice to have some variety in storytelling techniques. Different structures keep things from getting stale. It builds curiosity about who this guy is. But of course, it also works in service of limiting this story to one issue rather than building the relationship as a subplot over multiple issue that would pay off here.


I did a double-take! Is that what Robin meant? It takes two to tango, so it's kind of annoying that Dick would scold Kory over a non-relationship relationship that he's participating in as being bad for the team.




Yeah, the A.I.M. comparison is how I think of H.I.V.E. In fact, I think a few years down the line, there's a storyline where they have a zillion robed members.



When I read it, I thought it was the real name of Kory's boyfriend. However, it makes a lot more sense that Dr. Darrow is the real identity of the H.I.V.E. member. He's a scientist (which seems to fit with being a H.I.V.E. leader, while Kory's boyfriend was probably just a con man who ran romance schemes.  The last panel seems superfluous. Will there be a payoff to this H.I.V.E. member's identity? Is it just to establish the background of typical H.I.V.E. members?



Seems like a stretch, but at least they're trying.



Definitely waffling. I think I noted upthread that I thought it was intended as a romance, but that someone got cold feet about an interracial romance.



My own theory is that Raven either doesn't want to or can't remove the jewel on her forehead. Therefore, the best way to blend in is actually to dress in a sari to give the impression that it's a bindi. I might be wrong, but I think this is the first time we've seen Raven wear civilian clothes on Earth. She's always in her costume even when the Titans are just on their downtime. So getting ready for school is a big step.

There is a seeming inconsistent in Raven's behavior. She talks about a commitment to pacifism, but she engages in mind control and manipulation. I guess we've all got good and bad in us, and this is sort of the passive-aggressive way to direct those negative impulses (or engage in combat) in an ostensibly pacifist framework.



The Jaspers! 

There's something endearing about Raven's struggles. She's oftentimes a mysterious mastermind when she's with the Titans. She plans and strategizes and move the chess pieces. But here she's out of her element and at loss. She's asked a simply question, but then goes into a long detailed answer. She realizes she's confusing or losing her audience. And it seems like it's a problem she anticipated in and stumbled into anyway. Totally relatable social awkwardness for me.

Frances Kane loomed bigger in my mind than her actually significance, because I remember being struck by the art and her costume as Magenta in Who's Who entry. I think she might have Wally's girlfriend at the beginning of the post-Crisis Flash series for like the first issue. It really annoys me that her name was spelled as Francis in this first appearance.


It could've just be a one-and-down with an open-ended possibility to use her. It seems like a variant on the the individual character focus of Starfire's story the previous issue. By giving Frances powers, Marv and George can focus the threat and the personal interest/supporting character in the same person.


I think it works okay. It gives an excuse for the malevolent actions in how Frances's powers manifested. I think the ending just establishes that Doctor Polaris was behind it, that he didn't "win" over the Titans by getting back, and that he's still available to use. Also, I see that Marv Wolfman wrote that Green Lantern story, so he may have wanted to continue some of his work or just been the writer who knew what was up with Doctor Polaris.



It's maybe a little heavy-handed, but losing her husband and son is at least plausible to result in some blame, especially with Frances driving. Plus, add in some religious extremism.



Huge coincidence, but that's about 50% of super-hero comics.


It wasn't clear to me either, but I didn't get that he caused the accident. I guess opening the guardrail would suggest his involvement. I thought he just detected her power, and the latest outburst were his involvement. Or maybe driving Frances to emotional extremes was part of harnessing her power.



It seems like they want to tell one story straight through with no interruptions by subplots. But I feel like there's not enough story to fill out this page count. It really drags, and would be better served if there was an interlude or two. 

There NTT stories are average like 25 pages maybe. That's really long for a supposedly normal length super-hero comic. This is something that would fit better as a 17-pager.





I love how Raven's costume flows with the gust of air. Her costume is really versatile, like it's two different looks. Usually, it's a cloak that obscures her identity and gives an air of mystery. But it's also got the high-slit skirt that's more vampy.



Once again, the nitpicky part of my brain was bothered by the inside of Titans Tower being a mess but the outside being undamaged. I guess that means the debris inside was just stuff that was already inside the building being thrown around.



It was not as good as the last few issues that preceded it in my opinion.

That certainly explains it. Disappointing, but not really surprising, as he just did the exact same thing with the Starfire (Leonid Kovar) in NTT #18.

"Carter Hall, archeologist" fits well with the mythological foes which the Titans face. I'd guess the Hindu foes came first (a kid could learn quite a few things about Hindu characters from Robin's voiceover in this issue), and Hawkman made a logical guest star in view of that. Even though like Robin he's utterly useless against monsters so tough they can shrug off Starfire's full-strength blasts, ignore Wonder Girl's strongest punches (than can fell a Greek god, let's not forget), and throw an axe as fast as Kid Flash can run, which is "2,000 miles in less than 3 seconds" according to his entry panel in this issue. Hey Robin, go sit on the head of this godlike being!



There's a hilarious panel in which the fish-monster is attacking Hawkman with a wave, or something. Though the fish can also fly.


This was my favorite part of the issue. The whole notion of a hard-luck villain is a nice change from DC's usual mustache twirlers. This version of Dr. Light is petty and cowardly and has total lack of forethought. He says the statues are worth 25 million dollars. How should he transport them? Throw them all into a huge sack, of course! I'm sure they won't chip. Does he have super-strength? It would have been nice if Dr. Light were drawn as scrawny rather than muscular, to complete the image.



Just what powers does he have? He says his innate power is solar energy generation. Plus apparently he can use a lightbulb to change himself into pure light. He says he can't fly (in physical form) without borrowing Gizmo's rocket packs, which seem to have been stolen from Wonder Man. At least when he's wearing his super suit, he can make a shield out of light to block Hawkman's mace attack. Plus I guess also telekinesis? Maybe that's a hard light tractor beam.




Oh, you know, these ancient artifacts always have secret powers. It's expected. They did at least set that up by having the Marcus Brody-type guy get shocked when he touched one of the statues early on.


I thought it was funny that Dr. Light said he had "no reason" to get out of prison as a general rule. Because prison is fun! Especially a prison containing the roughest, toughest crooks in New York City. Still, "competing with his villain peers" makes a good villain motivation. Better than "Destroy the universe, just because" anyway. And I liked it that he was specifically trying to avoid superhero contact but felt forced to seek help.


We are to understand that this lair is still used by the Fearsome Five; Gizmo was mentioned by name. So he probably left the newspaper. Or maybe they have a subscription?


The women totally flunk the Bechdel test, too. All Donna and Kory talk is Kory's dead boyfriend. Raven talks (to herself) about not having a boyfriend.

Vic makes fun of Robin for never sending one of the stronger members on recon. I like that. Gar's characterization consists in name-dropping other teams in rapid-fire succession. First he mentions a team with a "goofy fourteen year old" scout, which I take (here I go again!) as a reference to Kitty Pryde of the X-Men.




Then he mentions the Legion of Super-Heroes, which must be another fourth wall-breaking aside, since I can't think how he'd know they exist.



And finally he mentions Captain Carrot and His Amazing Zoo Crew.



Gar did in fact guest star in the final issue of Captain Carrot (#20) in 1983, so if you really want to try to shoehorn his joke into continuity, it might work.

I'm embarrassed to admit I hadn't even considered this!




I don't know anything about Dr. Light beyond his Titans appearances and what Brad Meltzer did with him far later down the road (Grrrrr), so I truly don't know if we're supposed to have a grasp on what his powers are and how they work. If his powers and tech-based and built into his suit, he's basically a slight variation on Crazy Quilt (which is what I'd always assumed), but the prison escape threw me.




SUCH a lazy script. They could have at least spent three panels showing him using his innate light powers to stave off bullies and wallowing in his own misery after his last defeat, seeing no point in escaping and trying again.




Yes, and the fact that the peer he is measuring himself against is the Riddler just adds to the endearing pathetic nature of his situation. While some have gone on to reshape The Riddler into a legitimate and impressive villain, I don't think anyone had yet done that by 1982; certainly not the most recent Batman writers at the time (Conway, Wein, and Reed).



He credited Gizmo with giving him the rocket contraption. That doesn't necessarily imply the Fearsome Five are still around. Why would they wait for/prepare for Dr. Light? They stopped respecting him in their very first appearance.




That's a really good point. I think Raven's dilemma is more generally about opening up to anyone, but Donna is trying to help Kory not be defined by a man. Along these lines, I really respect that Wolfman doesn't have her bring up Hypereon and what he did to her. It would seem like the easiest way for the two to commiserate, but Donna does not go there, instead coaxing Kory to move on.

But (and I said this in my very first reviews in this thread) Kory's personality is utterly lacking by this point. Who is she other than a love-sick slice of cheesecake that sleeps in the nude and loses her temper easily? I think they've done such an effective job sexualizing her that they've lost any sense of who she is beyond that.



I couldn't decide if that comment was about Kitty Pryde or about Gar being sent out because he is the youngest member of the group at age 15 (according to a Wolfman interview) and so having a 14 year old on the team would take the burden off of his back.


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Really good catches all around, of course the names of both groups are changed just enough that they can be dismissed as fantasies of Gar's mind. Though it would be interesting to have Gar be a character who repeatedly breaks the fourth wall in this title. Oh, it's completely overdone in the age of Deadpool, but it would have been amusing in 1982.