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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 14, 2019 20:43:49 GMT -5
I definitely consider myself a fan, but there are plenty of things I haven't liked... The Last Jedi leads the list. While I didn't love the Prequels, they're not terrible, and lot of the stuff that got expended on through other media is really good.
I'll definitely keep checking out the new stuff.. some of it (like Claudia Gray's books, the beginning of the Doctor Aphra comic, Poe's comic) is pretty good. I'm quite happen to have my own canon that includes mostly the AU stuff and mainly ignores the current cast until they show me they're got something better than the Solo Twins, Talon Karrde, Mara Jade, etc.
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Post by String on Apr 16, 2019 17:45:31 GMT -5
I have a copy of TFA on blu-ray, still have yet to watch it.
I can't bring myself to buy a copy of TLJ.
This trailer does little to raise my desire to watch a third film.
I dunno, if I do see this film, it may just be out of rote since it's Star Wars. Somehow that feels wrong though. After watching a SW film, I should feel inspired and excited. None of these sequels so far have yet to do that.
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Post by Duragizer on Apr 16, 2019 18:01:17 GMT -5
3) The prequels were widely criticized when they came out. But time has only helped to improve their reputation. Apparently, the kids who grew up on those films and loved Jar Jar Binks are now adults and have a lot of fond memories of those films. Kids who unironically enjoyed schlock because they lacked good taste who grew up into adults who still unironically enjoyed schlock because they still lacked good taste and had to embrace pretentious "ring theories" to justify their continued unironic enjoyment of said schlock and lack of good taste. But maybe that's just my cynicism showing. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 16, 2019 18:17:01 GMT -5
3) The prequels were widely criticized when they came out. But time has only helped to improve their reputation. Apparently, the kids who grew up on those films and loved Jar Jar Binks are now adults and have a lot of fond memories of those films. Kids who unironically enjoyed schlock because they lacked good taste who grew up into adults who still unironically enjoyed schlock because they still lacked good taste and had to embrace pretentious "ring theories" to justify their continued unironic enjoyment of said schlock and lack of good taste. But maybe that's just my cynicism showing. It's fine to like schlock. I like a lot of schlock. It's when you are incapable of recognizing it's schlock that it becomes a problem. |
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Post by Duragizer on Apr 16, 2019 19:57:11 GMT -5
Kids who unironically enjoyed schlock because they lacked good taste who grew up into adults who still unironically enjoyed schlock because they still lacked good taste and had to embrace pretentious "ring theories" to justify their continued unironic enjoyment of said schlock and lack of good taste. But maybe that's just my cynicism showing. It's fine to like schlock. I like a lot of schlock. It's when you are incapable of recognizing it's schlock that it becomes a problem. Oh, undoubtedly. I like The Room; I love Troll 2; I even managed to glean some enjoyment from Freddy Got Fingered. But damned if I'll ever say a one of them's a secretly great film that the unwashed masses were too stupid to appreciate. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 16, 2019 22:57:23 GMT -5
3) The prequels were widely criticized when they came out. But time has only helped to improve their reputation. Apparently, the kids who grew up on those films and loved Jar Jar Binks are now adults and have a lot of fond memories of those films. Kids who unironically enjoyed schlock because they lacked good taste who grew up into adults who still unironically enjoyed schlock because they still lacked good taste and had to embrace pretentious "ring theories" to justify their continued unironic enjoyment of said schlock and lack of good taste. But maybe that's just my cynicism showing. And a couple decades later they made three prequels! |
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Post by Duragizer on Apr 16, 2019 23:29:11 GMT -5
Kids who unironically enjoyed schlock because they lacked good taste who grew up into adults who still unironically enjoyed schlock because they still lacked good taste and had to embrace pretentious "ring theories" to justify their continued unironic enjoyment of said schlock and lack of good taste. But maybe that's just my cynicism showing. And a couple decades later they made three prequels! A few years ago I would've say "Them's fightin' woids!" These days, though.... |
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Post by The Captain on Apr 17, 2019 9:19:29 GMT -5
You know, I'm much more excited about the Game of Thrones final season than I am anything to do with Star Wars. That's a really terrible state of affairs, considering what a nutzoid SW obsessive I've been since the tender age of 5. The fact that I simply don't care anymore about SW is, for me, a damning indictment on the makers of the sequel trilogy. As flawed as they were, even the prequels never made me stop caring about SW. It's because you grew up, as did I. I had EVERY SW figure up until the last couple of releases during ROTJ and a ton of the vehicles, and I saw the original three movies more times than I can count. Had most of the original comic books as well. Then along came The X-Files and Buffy and Angel and Firefly and Supernatural and, eventually, Game of Thrones. Shows that had richly-drawn and complex characters in stories that weren't as simple as white hats versus black hats, and SW seemed like nothing more than a quaint throwback to a simpler time of storytelling. Combine that with the dreck of the prequels and the new trilogy that had no spark of creativity and were clearly designed to capitalize on the SW name and do nothing more than make money, and is it any wonder that the five-year old from 1978 who ate up SW like it was the greatest thing ever couldn't stand the sour taste of crass commercialism and stale ideas as an adult? |
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Post by rberman on Apr 17, 2019 9:31:59 GMT -5
You know, I'm much more excited about the Game of Thrones final season than I am anything to do with Star Wars. That's a really terrible state of affairs, considering what a nutzoid SW obsessive I've been since the tender age of 5. The fact that I simply don't care anymore about SW is, for me, a damning indictment on the makers of the sequel trilogy. As flawed as they were, even the prequels never made me stop caring about SW. It's because you grew up, as did I. I had EVERY SW figure up until the last couple of releases during ROTJ and a ton of the vehicles, and I saw the original three movies more times than I can count. Had most of the original comic books as well. Then along came The X-Files and Buffy and Angel and Firefly and Supernatural and, eventually, Game of Thrones. Shows that had richly-drawn and complex characters in stories that weren't as simple as white hats versus black hats, and SW seemed like nothing more than a quaint throwback to a simpler time of storytelling. Combine that with the dreck of the prequels and the new trilogy that had no spark of creativity and were clearly designed to capitalize on the SW name and do nothing more than make money, and is it any wonder that the five-year old from 1978 who ate up SW like it was the greatest thing ever couldn't stand the sour taste of crass commercialism and stale ideas as an adult? Television does give a lot more opportunity for character development, it's true. Yet popcorn movies like the MCU with clear good/evil lines still manage to entertain modern audiences by doing it well. The problem with the recent SW movies isn't that they had a simple moral outlook. It's that their stories, characters, and casting are not interesting. Anyone who's read the "Heir to the Empire" trilogy by Zahn knows that a major storytelling opportunity was missed in Episodes 7-9, even sticking to conventional white and black hats. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Apr 17, 2019 13:52:19 GMT -5
Lots of grown ups thought Star Wars was derivative garbage. Some of it is just not for our demographic. Of the new movies, The Last Jedi is the only one I actively dislike. (And the prequels.) Clone Wars developed into quite a good show. Although I don't care for either of the new sequels I liked the Last Jedi a lot better than the Force Awakens. Both films suffer from poorly developed/forgettable characters and lame plots but I felt TLJ at least had the emotional core of a Star Wars film that made me love the world to begin with. Still, both films are definitely bottom of the bucket for me and this trailer( Billy Dee as Lando aside) does nothing to make me feel the third will be different. This sums up my feelings fairly well. I'm sure I'l go see it, because it's Star Wars, but my expectations are not high. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Apr 17, 2019 13:56:17 GMT -5
You know, I'm much more excited about the Game of Thrones final season than I am anything to do with Star Wars. That's a really terrible state of affairs, considering what a nutzoid SW obsessive I've been since the tender age of 5. The fact that I simply don't care anymore about SW is, for me, a damning indictment on the makers of the sequel trilogy. As flawed as they were, even the prequels never made me stop caring about SW. I know what you mean. I've been a Star Wars nutsoid since the age of 8. The Last Jedi had been out for about a year before I finally saw it on Netflix, which tells you how badly I wanted to see it after that garbagefest known as The Last Jedi. Also yeah, the prequels were flawed, but I didn't feel the apathy for them that I have for the sequels. At least I still have my Blu-ray DVD's of the original trilogy, plus the VHS tapes with the versions before Lucas started screwing with them, plus my original, vintage action figures and Topps trading cards, so I can use all those things to keep me warm on those cold nights. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 17, 2019 14:45:08 GMT -5
Anyone who's read the "Heir to the Empire" trilogy by Zahn knows that a major storytelling opportunity was missed in Episodes 7-9, even sticking to conventional white and black hats. I'm in the minority concerning that one, but I found Heir to the Empire (which I read when it came out) rather predictable. Apart from the character of Thrawn, who was interesting because he refused to be a clichéd moustache-twirling martinet, the trilogy read like a «done by numbers» Star Wars story, the kind that a committee of fans might have come up with. By that I mean that all our old favourites were there, each doing what we know them for: Luke is separated from his friends and faces a Force-related threat; Han does some smuggling and fancy flying; Lando strikes some deals; Threepio proves useful as a translator; Wedge remains a dogfight virtuoso... even Mara Jade was exactly the kind of cookie-cutter love interest required for Luke (a role Shira Brie had played better, IMO). What Heir to the Empire and The Force Awakens both got right, as far as sequels go and as far as I am concerned, is to acknowledge that the imperial machinery would not simply collapse after the death of the empire. Where The Last Jedi erred on that score is to treat the First Order simply as the empire reborn, ignoring the fact it had ever been gone. It would have been interesting to have a galaxy where the rules of the game were new, instead of going back to the status quo ante. (For all its supposed willingness to do things differently, TLJ sure did a lot of getting us back to square one: the empire is back, the rebellious good guys are on the run, the Jedi are all but gone, a Sith rules the galaxy, and there is a clear line between who's good and who's not. For a second there I thought it *might* try something new with Ben Solo going his own way instead of waling in Vader's steps, but no... that lasted all of three seconds.) I wonder if there was a real story idea behind The Rise of Skywalker, or if it was a case of "we need a Star Wars movie for December 2019, someone get someone to write some kind of plot". I hope there was, but right now I'd rather watch the next season of Black Mirror. |
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Post by Duragizer on Apr 17, 2019 14:47:55 GMT -5
Anyone who's read the "Heir to the Empire" trilogy by Zahn knows that a major storytelling opportunity was missed in Episodes 7-9, even sticking to conventional white and black hats. I wouldn't say the Thrawn Trilogy sticks to conventional white & black hats. I don't recall if Thrawn and Pallaeon were portrayed as the antiheroes they definitely were in later stories, but Mara Jade's definitely a gray character. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Apr 17, 2019 16:52:39 GMT -5
You know, I'm much more excited about the Game of Thrones final season than I am anything to do with Star Wars. That's a really terrible state of affairs, considering what a nutzoid SW obsessive I've been since the tender age of 5. The fact that I simply don't care anymore about SW is, for me, a damning indictment on the makers of the sequel trilogy. As flawed as they were, even the prequels never made me stop caring about SW. It's because you grew up, as did I. I had EVERY SW figure up until the last couple of releases during ROTJ and a ton of the vehicles, and I saw the original three movies more times than I can count. Had most of the original comic books as well. Then along came The X-Files and Buffy and Angel and Firefly and Supernatural and, eventually, Game of Thrones. Shows that had richly-drawn and complex characters in stories that weren't as simple as white hats versus black hats, and SW seemed like nothing more than a quaint throwback to a simpler time of storytelling. Combine that with the dreck of the prequels and the new trilogy that had no spark of creativity and were clearly designed to capitalize on the SW name and do nothing more than make money, and is it any wonder that the five-year old from 1978 who ate up SW like it was the greatest thing ever couldn't stand the sour taste of crass commercialism and stale ideas as an adult? I appreciate what you're saying, but I'm not entirely sure this is the case for me. I mean, yeah, I grew up and I do demand much more complex fiction from film and TV than I used to. But I still love Star Wars as a franchise and as a fictional setting. I was in my 40s before this new sequel trilogy came out, and it was as a direct result of those films that my interest first began to wane. So, I've been a grown up for a good 20 odd years (at least!) and I was still a fan of Star Wars for most of that time. Also, I loved Rogue One -- that was Star Wars done right, as far as I'm concerned. I was 40+ when that came out, and I sat with a grin of absolute joy on my face like a kid all the way through it. So, SW can still enchant and entertain me, but it has to have great characters, with interesting story arcs, and an emotional payoff. GoT has all that...and so does Rogue One. But for me, the sequel trilogy doesn't and that's why I'm not very interested in it. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 17, 2019 21:45:06 GMT -5
Anyone who's read the "Heir to the Empire" trilogy by Zahn knows that a major storytelling opportunity was missed in Episodes 7-9, even sticking to conventional white and black hats. I wouldn't say the Thrawn Trilogy sticks to conventional white & black hats. I don't recall if Thrawn and Pallaeon were portrayed as the antiheroes they definitely were in later stories, but Mara Jade's definitely a gray character. I don't think Thrawn and Pallaeon were either heroes or villains.. they were simply military men doing what they thought was best for the men, which is why it worked. While I greatly enjoyed Rebels, my main problem with the later issues is they made Thrawn too evil. |
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