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Post by hondobrode on Apr 15, 2019 23:03:24 GMT -5
and here's another perfect example of solid second stringer whose work I really enjoy  Lee Weeks |
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Post by MDG on Apr 16, 2019 9:00:22 GMT -5
Here are some A-list artists who are neither EC veterans or superhero artists IMO : Charles Biro Box Brown Charles Burns Dan Clowes Guido Crepax Robert Crumb Kim Deitch Mary Fleener Frank Frazetta Drew Friedman Jack Jackson Denis Kitchen Stan Sakai Richard Sala Gilbert Shelton Jim Woodring Carl Barks Los Bros Hernandez Bill Williams Owen Fitzgerald ...
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Post by hondobrode on Apr 16, 2019 9:16:18 GMT -5
I've never heard of the last two. Looking now
Agreed
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 16, 2019 16:50:34 GMT -5
Here are some A-list artists who are neither EC veterans or superhero artists IMO : Charles Biro Box Brown Charles Burns Dan Clowes Guido Crepax Robert Crumb Kim Deitch Mary Fleener Frank Frazetta Drew Friedman Jack Jackson Denis Kitchen Stan Sakai Richard Sala Gilbert Shelton Jim Woodring Which is why I said "mainstream", yes.  Frazetta's an interesting one because he's not best known as a comic artist. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 17, 2019 6:27:17 GMT -5
It's funny but I would place an artist like Sakai an Erik Larsen in a separate category. They carry their books primarily by themselves and there are no replacements.
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Post by kirby101 on Apr 17, 2019 8:45:27 GMT -5
Here are some A-list artists who are neither EC veterans or superhero artists IMO : Charles Biro Box Brown Charles Burns Dan Clowes Guido Crepax Robert Crumb Kim Deitch Mary Fleener Frank Frazetta Drew Friedman Jack Jackson Denis Kitchen Stan Sakai Richard Sala Gilbert Shelton Jim Woodring Frank Frazetta was an EC veteran.
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Post by MDG on Apr 17, 2019 9:55:39 GMT -5
It's funny but I would place an artist like Sakai an Erik Larsen in a separate category. They carry their books primarily by themselves and there are no replacements. That's one of the problems with trying to compare/rank people primarily working as independent creators and "work for hire". Frank Frazetta was an EC veteran. Just barely: one story, one cover (originally done for another publisher), and a few collaborations with Williamson. I don't think of him as an EC artist any more than some of the others who only did a one or two things for them (Toth, Kubert...) |
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Post by chadwilliam on Apr 17, 2019 10:07:43 GMT -5
In my mind, Jim Aparo is to Batman what Curt Swan is to Superman which leaves me wondering whether Swan would be regarded as a top tier artist. I think "superstar" here is being defined as able to increase sales or at least draw a lot of publicity to a title by virtue of your presence - ie. Neal Adams/Carmine Infantino/Jack Kirby/Todd McFarlane. Batman sales are down? Send in Infantino. X-Men isn't doing well? Let Adams see what he can do. I don't think Swan was DC's Go to Guy - even when Superman's head was being redrawn in other books for being "off-model" it was often Wayne Boring, Al Plastino, etc that DC had do the reworking and yet, Swan might very well be the definitive artist for the biggest character comics had.
As for Norm Breyfogle...
Breyfogle left the Batman titles to work on Prime in the early 90's. He chose an odd time to do so as he departed Batman as it approached its 500th issue which would have garnered quite a bit of royalties. He also might not have responded as excitedly to being given the title "Batman: Shadow of the Bat" as DC thought he should have been since it seems as if the title were created specifically for him. He did speak out about certain injustices as he perceived them in the comics field which resulted in a phone call from Mike Carlin which skipped the usual "Hello" and opened with "Are you a team player?" He told me this story in person several years ago at a comic con and was taken aback that he was thought of as a rabble-rouser. Sadly, I think doing the right thing might have hurt him as he did have trouble getting work from DC in later years despite submitting quite a few ideas.
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Post by Prince Hal on Apr 17, 2019 10:09:02 GMT -5
Did I miss Walt Kelly's name amongst the true greats?
He belongs on the A+ list.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2019 10:46:52 GMT -5
Sheldon Moldoff Batman Only  I would put him in top tier (barely) and I wouldn't put him in the 2nd Tier Class and I'm a bit in an quandary of where I put him ... what you guys think of his art in Batman alone ... Sadly, this art is the only one that I know that Sheldon did. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Apr 17, 2019 10:58:25 GMT -5
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Post by chadwilliam on Apr 17, 2019 11:13:44 GMT -5
Sheldon Moldoff Batman Only I would put him in top tier (barely) and I wouldn't put him in the 2nd Tier Class and I'm a bit in an quandary of where I put him ... what you guys think of his art in Batman alone ... Sadly, this art is the only one that I know that Sheldon did. Within Batman's history alone, I'd definitely rank him as A level in both terms of significance and quality of his work. He's one of, if not the, most prolific artists Batman ever had and I believe his involvement with the character goes as far back as 1939. He helped create Bat-Mite, Bat-Woman, Bat-Girl (Betty Kane), Bathound, Poison Ivy, Clayface II, and Mr. Freeze (Mr. Zero), pencilled some of the best Batman stories out there, and while I'm not crazy about his 'New Look' work on Batman (that period from 1964-67) his stuff prior to that is gorgeous. Beyond Batman, he's probably the definitive Golden Age Hawkman artist and created Hawkgirl, drew the first covers featuring The Flash and Green Lantern, co-created Kid Eternity, and it was Moldoff who apparently gave William Gaines the idea to start a line of horror comics. According to Moldoff, he offered to tell Gaines what the next big trend would be in comics if Gaines would give him a percentage of the profits. Gaines agreed, Moldoff told him to get into horror and while Gaines offered to put him on a title as an artist, he reneged on paying him a percentage of EC's profits. If true, we wouldn't have Tales from the Crypt, Haunt of Fear, etc without Moldoff. twomorrows.com/alterego/articles/04moldoff.html |
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Post by MDG on Apr 17, 2019 11:38:58 GMT -5
Sheldon Moldoff Batman Only Beyond Batman, he's probably the definitive Golden Age Hawkman artist and created Hawkgirl, drew the first covers featuring The Flash and Green Lantern, co-created Kid Eternity, and it was Moldoff who apparently gave William Gaines the idea to start a line of horror comics. According to Moldoff, he offered to tell Gaines what the next big trend would be in comics if Gaines would give him a percentage of the profits. Gaines agreed, Moldoff told him to get into horror and while Gaines offered to put him on a title as an artist, he reneged on paying him a percentage of EC's profits. If true (emphasis added), we wouldn't have Tales from the Crypt, Haunt of Fear, etc without Moldoff. I'd never heard this story until after Gaines, Feldstein, and Craig passed away, and it never seemed legit to me, even though the book Foul Play had some artifacts from Moldoff. Also, his Hawkman strips are notorious for being filled with Alex Raymond swipes. I'm not totally ragging on the guy, though--next too Sprang, probably the best Bat-artist between the GA and New Look. He did a lot of Batman commissions and drawings for the collector's market in the early 90s. Here's one I picked up:  |
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Post by hondobrode on Apr 17, 2019 12:29:41 GMT -5
Here are some A-list artists who are neither EC veterans or superhero artists IMO : Charles Biro Box Brown Charles Burns Dan Clowes Guido Crepax Robert Crumb Kim Deitch Mary Fleener Frank Frazetta Drew Friedman Jack Jackson Denis Kitchen Stan Sakai Richard Sala Gilbert Shelton Jim Woodring Frank Frazetta was an EC veteran.
Of course he was an EC artist.
I'll amend my list.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2019 13:02:21 GMT -5
Prince Hal ... chadwilliam ... MDG --- Thanks for great helping of information on Moldoff that you all gave me. He is a A Lister Supreme.
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