|
|
Post by mikelmidnight on Jun 5, 2019 12:09:42 GMT -5
I've read a LOT of things about the 1978 SUPERMAN movie. It all just reinforced the feeling I had sitting in the theatre on opening day. I've NEVER really liked that movie. Now that's an unpopular view! And ... one I happen to share. I saw the film when it came out and while I do acknowledge that Reeve did a great job of making Superman and Clark Kent seem like different people, I didn't feel like it was the Clark I grew up with and he didn't convince me as Superman at all. While there are problems with L&C, I also immediately cottoned to Dean Cain in the role. I see him as much more Superman than I ever saw Reeve. |
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Jun 5, 2019 17:54:00 GMT -5
Now that's an unpopular view! And ... one I happen to share. I saw the film when it came out and while I do acknowledge that Reeve did a great job of making Superman and Clark Kent seem like different people, I didn't feel like it was the Clark I grew up with and he didn't convince me as Superman at all. While there are problems with L&C, I also immediately cottoned to Dean Cain in the role. I see him as much more Superman than I ever saw Reeve. The film's tone was schizophrenic. "Krypton" was too alien and serious. "Smallville" seemed too pastoral & "Ray Bradbury" (heh). And "Metropolis" suddenly dumps you into Adam West's "BATMAN". (The latter was a problem with FAR too many revivals of classic characters in the late 70s.)
Of all the actors in the film, I think Christopher Reeve probably did the best job. Looking back, though, what he really captured was the 1938 Clark Kent. And, Clark did NOT stay that way forever.
I have only ever yet seen the L&C pilot, but my best friend has often told me how the show's quality evolved and changed (not for the better). But something that came as a nice surprise was how, in that first story, the relationship between Lois & Clark evolved as much as it did over possibly the first 5 YEARS of the comic. Lois was a B**** when she started... then she realized Clark was on her side.
I sometimes like to think that the Lois we got in the 1950s George Reeves TV series (which I grew up on reruns of) was how Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster might have had her, if they both hadn't been FIRED by DC's management in the late 40s. Lois on TV was certainly more sensible (and nicer) than the 1950s version whose sole focus in life seemed to be to REVEAL Superman's secret identity to the world (never mind that it would make it near-impossible for him to continue fighting crime).
I'm not sure who I might have cast as Perry White, but I'll probably always think of John Hamilton. Jimmy wasn't bad, but they never gave him anything to do in those movies. As for Lois... it's strange, I like Margot Kidder... but her Lois just does NOTHING for me, annoys me, and doesn't seem quite "right" for the character. (Then again, in the context of the 1978 film, she probably comes across as one of the least of the film's problems.)
Something that caught me by surprise, watching reruns, was the McCLOUD episode, "Butch Cassidy Rides Again". Among the guest cast was Stephanie Powers (THE GIRL FROM UNCLE), as a highly-strung, aggressive reporter. As I watched this again not long ago, it hit me-- "It's LOIS LANE!" I thought she would have been much better in the part than Margot Kidder. (Here she is, seconds before getting into a violent cat-fight with Linda Evans.)
|
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Jun 6, 2019 6:03:01 GMT -5
The Forever People #7 “I’ll Find You in Yesterday!!” (February 1972) The Story: On New Genesis, young Izek pleads with Highfather Izaya to help the Forever People. The Forever People find themselves not destroyed by Darkseid’s Omega Effect, but scattered across time. Mark Moonrider and Beautiful Dreamer are in Ford’s Theater, witnesses to the assassination of Abraham Lincoln.  Vykin the Black helps Ponce de Leon search for the fountain of youth in colonial Florida.  Big Bear drops in on the Celtic side of an attack on Roman forces manning Hadrian’s Wall, including this terrific splash page:  Back in present day, Serifan and the Super-Cycle respond with surprisingly explicit lethal force against attacking Justifiers.  Highfather Izaya uses “Alpha Bullets” to recall the Forever People from their various time-frames.  But what about Sonny Sumo? At a monastery in Honshu, Serifan learns that Sonny never did escape the past; he lived out his days there, helping people and becoming a legend. The monks have preserved the Mother Box, which they return to Serifan.  Backup Feature: Lonar of New Genesis encounters Orion, who spooks Lonar’s horse, Thunderer, a reincarnated Asgardian. Is it Thor in disguise? Or just an Asgardian horse?  Lettercol: Mike Royer's inks get more praise. One reader requests that Beautiful Dreamer wear hot pants; Bridwell makes no promises. My Two Cents: Splitting up the team is always a good way to tell a few brief vignettes rather than either coming up with a long, complicated single story or else spreading out a short story with big splash pages. Darkseid’s Omega Effect really isn’t that much use if Highfather Izaya can reverse it without even taking much trouble to locate the time-lost people. Why doesn’t Darkseid use a more definitive weapon on his enemies? Izaya refers to the Forever People as a “family unit,” though all the members appear to be the same age. We haven’t seen any romantic behavior among them, but apparently they were joyriding on earth without permission, the whippersnappers! 
|
|
|
|
Post by MWGallaher on Jun 6, 2019 8:26:48 GMT -5
I've often wondered if these issues meant that Kirby was thinking of turning this into a time travel book. He certainly seems to have a less established direction for this title than for his other 4th World work, and "Forever People" is a good name for a group of time travelers.
And by the way, rberman, why do you keep calling him "Serafina"? It's "Serifan".
|
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Jun 6, 2019 8:32:53 GMT -5
And by the way, rberman, why do you keep calling him "Serafina"? It's " Serifan". Because no one corrected my error. Noted and fixed! Thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Jun 6, 2019 10:12:39 GMT -5
This story grabbed me mostly because it reminded me of a variation on a "LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES" story, "The Rogue Legionaire" (Shooter, Swan & Klein), except in that case the characters each deliberately go back in time to different periods searching for the villain.
I've sometimes wondered what Kirby might have done with the "LEGION" series. Futuristic science-fiction & super-heroes, just up his alley!
|
|
|
|
Post by mikelmidnight on Jun 6, 2019 11:38:02 GMT -5
Of all the actors in the film, I think Christopher Reeve probably did the best job. Looking back, though, what he really captured was the 1938 Clark Kent. And, Clark did NOT stay that way forever. Really? I don't see that at all. I think the 30's Clark was very 'city' ... polite and sophisticated, but not physically aggressive. The mopey, countrified Clark was very different from what I was used to. I'm not saying it was an objectively bad choice, simply that I couldn't connect with it personally. I'm not even sure why I was dissatisfied with his Superman, but for some reason he never convinced me, even though the very different George Reeves and Dean Cain did. It's not that linear. I'd say the early episodes are very accurate adaptations of the 50's Lois: a shrew who needed to be humiliated every episode. But then, as soon as she discovered his identity, the series completely changed for the better, and she became a true partner to Clark/Superman. That lasted for a while until the Kryptonian invasion, which amped up the 'comic booky' elements of the series which the romance-oriented television writers didn't understand how to do, and it descended into total idiocy. |
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Jun 6, 2019 21:26:25 GMT -5
I'm only going by the pilot. I haven't seen anything since.
But I did read enough of the Golden Age Archive books to see that Siegel & Shuster were slowly developing the characters & their relationship, and Lois was begining to drop her hateful shrew attitude just about where I stopped reading. It struck me that the 50s TV show was a more sensible continuation of the early-40s comics than the 50s comics were.
There was a massive editorial upheaval at National around the end of WW2, and it genuinely seems to me that the quality of the writing of most of their books took a gigantic nosedive... from which it took a long, long, slow, painful amount of time to recover. I'm talking 20 or more YEARS. I've long enjoyed early-40s DCs more than anything after that until the late 60s.
|
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Jun 7, 2019 8:32:53 GMT -5
Lois Lane #119 “The Outsiders!” (February 1972) Creative Team: Kanigher, Roth, Coletta. Together for the last time. The Story: Superman saves Lucy Lane from dying in a daredevil skydiving stunt. Lucy takes it in stride, but the near-tragedy rattles Lois severely.  The real Morgan Edge clambers out of a river after escaping the psychiatric ambulance that was going to lock him away. He’s taken in by the Outsiders, the roughneck bikers who hadn’t been seen since Kirby’s first days on Jimmy Olsen over a year before.  Edge’s clone shows amazing intuition, thinking that Real-Edge must be hiding among a community of outsiders, maybe even the community that literally calls themselves “Outsiders.” What a smart guy! Has he read Kanigher’s script?  When Edge says he's going to the Evil Factory, I guess he's planning on flying to Scotland to shrink down and crawl under a rock near Loch Trevor. It seems more likely he would just use his video-phone to chat with Mokkari and Simyan. Edge tries to get Iron Mask and Vudu to use force and reclaim their position as Outsider leaders. But they are defeated by the egalitarian, peacenik solidarity of the Outsider commune.  Next, Clone-Edge gets unused clones from the Evil Factory, buries them on the Outsider farm, and tries to frame them as mass-murderers. Superman shows the cops that it’s not so. Curses, foiled again! I’ll get you next month, you lousy Outsiders!  My Two Cents: The Outsiders are way more peaceful here than they were in Jimmy Olsen, in which they shot Superman twice with a Kryptonite gun when he tried to follow them. They have church services and quote the Bible. Is this a group that ever would have accepted Iron Mask and Vudu as their leaders in the first place?   Kanigher appears to be shifting gears into a more serialized, less stand-alone story form. The tale of Lucy Lane’s daring feats is just beginning, while the story of real-Edge gets another installment. Lois got pretty well sidelined in this issue of her own book, a measure of how eager Kanigher is to be on the Kirby train. I wonder whether sales were falling, since this would be Kanigher’s last issue. Subsequent issues dropped the Morgan Edge story in particular and the Fourth World in general. #120 revealed that Lucy was a spy for the 100 gang who fell in love with her target, a scientist working on a doomsday “Omega Bomb.” Lucy’s employers killed her, and almost killed Lois when she traveled to South America to investigate. The story ends with Lois declaring she’s going to make some big changes in her life. Being tied spread-eagle to a wheel and used for target practice can do that to a person. So can Cary Bates taking over as writer from Robert Kanigher. He had Lois quit the Daily Planet, modernize her clothes and hair (again), and become a freelance writer and social justice crusader, living in a flat with three other girls from all walks of life. Kirby story elements disappeared in the process.  
|
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Jun 7, 2019 18:28:45 GMT -5
I managed to get this one when I picked up most of the Fourth World books, thanks to a checklist in one of the fan magazines.
The shot of Supes & the sheriff looking at the body that never lived reminds me of "INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS", which I just re-watched a couple months ago.
Looks like Yango "found God". Or something.
I'm reminded-- just a tiny bit-- of one of my favorite "USA Up All Night" comedy films... "EASY WHEELS", where the heroes are a fun-loving (though inept) biker gang.
|
|
|
|
Post by MWGallaher on Jun 8, 2019 7:01:39 GMT -5
I was always a bit surprised that the title "New Gods" didn't cause DC any concerns about causing offense among the conservatively religious. Seeing Robert Kanigher's quoting Proverbs and showing the Outsiders praying together makes me wonder whether he was making his own statement of objection to Kirby's audacious proposal of "new gods". Kanigher was known to, erm, "make statements" about other comics creators and their work through his own scripts, and Mark Evanier describes Kanigher as "a writer who had expressed enormous contempt for Kirby, his work and darn near everything ever published by Marvel." I don't know how religious Kanigher was personally (though he definitely worked a few explicitly religious stories into his Sgt. Rock stories, and had the Flash praying out loud on the cover of Flash #198), but I could imagine having to incorporate ideas from Kirby, who he apparently didn't like, especially if he found the very premise offensive to his own sensibilities, might have led to him trying to revise--or undermine--some of the Fourth World stuff, especially stuff like the Outsiders, which Kirby had already moved past.
|
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Jun 8, 2019 10:20:02 GMT -5
I was always a bit surprised that the title "New Gods" didn't cause DC any concerns about causing offense among the conservatively religious. Seeing Robert Kanigher's quoting Proverbs and showing the Outsiders praying together makes me wonder whether he was making his own statement of objection to Kirby's audacious proposal of "new gods". Kanigher was known to, erm, "make statements" about other comics creators and their work through his own scripts, and Mark Evanier describes Kanigher as "a writer who had expressed enormous contempt for Kirby, his work and darn near everything ever published by Marvel." I don't know how religious Kanigher was personally (though he definitely worked a few explicitly religious stories into his Sgt. Rock stories, and had the Flash praying out loud on the cover of Flash #198), but I could imagine having to incorporate ideas from Kirby, who he apparently didn't like, especially if he found the very premise offensive to his own sensibilities, might have led to him trying to revise--or undermine--some of the Fourth World stuff, especially stuff like the Outsiders, which Kirby had already moved past. Interesting. So all this Fourth World material in Lois Lane... was Kanigher instructed to tie his material into Kirby's, and he used the situation to subvert Kirby? Or was the use of Kirby's material all Kanigher's idea in the first place? |
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Jun 8, 2019 10:29:17 GMT -5
Jimmy Olsen #146 “Homo Disastrous” (February 1972) The Story: Simyan and Mokkari transform Jimmy into a brutish bruiser, then sedate him when he starts tearing up their lab.  Then Simyan and Mokkari discover the Whiz Wagon careening through their facility, so they spin it around until its occupants pass out. The Newsboys awaken just in time to save the Wagon from falling into an incinerator.  Neanderthal Jimmy has meanwhile regained consciousness. He stalks the halls and frees a bunch of imprisoned animals which he rides; Scrapper and the Scrapper Trooper join in too. What fun! Jimmy breaks more machines until the Evil Factory explodes. Thankfully he and the Whiz Wagon containing his friends are somehow thrown clear and returned to normal size. The fate of Mokkari and Simyan is unknown.  The Superman B-plot advances slightly. He watches Dubbilex use his powers of “E.P.S.” (Extra-Physical Status, i.e. telekinesis) to flirt with Terry Dean. Guardian has explored the tunnel under the casino; he reports once again that it extends all the way to the D.N.A. Project. We already knew that, but thanks anyway! This must be part of Darkseid's worldwide subterranean tunnel network that we heard about long ago. Then a Boom Tube appears, and Superman decides to enter it.  Tales of the DNA Project: Time for another new character, Arin the Armored Man! He’s a metal humanoid, not a robot, raised in The Project by Dr Carl Packard, a scientist who feels like his father. Then he’s shot in a rocket into deep space, carrying a copy of Superman’s genetic samples. What a terrible job, flying through space alone forever just to guard this backpack full of body tissue! But he seems to relish it as an honor. Dr Packard has appeared several times since. Shockingly, Arin has not.  Lettercol: Oliver Auger is perturbed by all the ways that Count Dragorin did not follow stereotypical vampire lore, e.g. appearing in daylight. He suggests that Dragorin only appears to be a vampire. Duh, ya think? Did the homing beams shooting out of his eyes give it away? Frequent letter writer Gerard Triano loved the Transilvane Planet story. My Two Cents: An action-packed end for the Evil Factory. What sort of environmental abatement will the explodion of the tiny Factory under a rock in Scotland require? This is of course the second time that Simyan and Mokkari have turned created a Jimmy-Monster, and the second time said monster has torn up their lab. I guess they learned their lesson this time. For the third issue, the Superman plot is just a placeholder to say that he was in this issue. As such, the cover depicting him defending the Newsboys from “Homo Disastrous Jimmy” is not remotely accurate.
|
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Jun 8, 2019 11:19:32 GMT -5
So I'm guessing Kanigher was the one behind trying to con readers into believing that Morgan Edge WASN'T really an evil corporate SCUMBAG... only his clone was.
I've read a LOT of really awful stories about Kanigher over the years, and how badly he treated so many free-lancers. Maybe he "related" to Edge too much, and decided to pull a white-wash.
I sometimes think that if Joe Simon hadn't foolishly struck a deal with Al Harvey right after WW2, that Simon & Kirby might have been RUNNING DC by the early 60s, and hate-filled characters like Kanigher, Schiff & Weisinger might have been brought to heel, or sent packing.
|
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Jun 9, 2019 8:23:25 GMT -5
The New Gods #7 “The Pact!” (February 1972) The Story: It's a flashback issue that doesn't continue the Kalibak story started at the end of the previous issue. Once upon a time on New Genesis, a young man named Izaya and his wife Avia were minding their own business on a picnic, when they were foully attacked by bad guys led by Steppenwolf, brother of the queen of Apokolips. Avia was killed, and the evil prince Darkseid thought he had killed Izaya too. "Adventures of Darkseid when he was a boy!" I guess everybody comes from somewhere, but the thought of teen Darkseid is somewhat chilling.  But no, Izaya survived! This led to a massive war between New Genesis and Apokolips, with collateral damage so great that the universe itself seems threatened. Darkseid makes a deal with Metron, a New Genesis scientist, providing him with the X-Element fuel for his Mobius chair, in exchange for proto-Boom Tube teleportation technology which gives Apokolips an edge in the war.  Izaya kills Steppenwolf in battle, then renounces the warrior life. He wanders into the desert and discovers the Source Wall, with God’s finger writing upon it. He returns to society as a religious figure.   Izaya arranges an armistice with Darkseid. As part of the titular Pact, Darkseid will foster Izaya’s infant son (later named Scott Free), while Izaya will raise Darkseid’s teen hellion Orion. Thus was the story set in motion.  Backup story “Vykin the Black”: Vykin ventures into the tunnels beneath New Genesis and scares off a monster, keeping the surface safe for white children to run and play. (I mention race because “Vykin the Black” is the only person of color on New Genesis, it seems.)  My Two Cents: When people talk about how great the Fourth World is, this is the issue they are talking about. Since it’s a summary of a long war, summarizing it is difficult. Kirby delivers impressive battle scenes throughout. Kirby lays out the Asgardian origin of the Fourth World explicitly. The planet of New Genesis was somehow birthed from “Balduur” (Baldur) while Apokolips came from his opponent “a sorceress.” (Amora or Karnilla?)  “The Pact” draws upon the fostering tradition found in many cultures around the world. Kirby himself included a similar scene in Journey into Mystery #112, in which Odin unilaterally decides to raise Loki, the infant son of his defeated foe Laufey. Perhaps this was taken from Norse mythology; I wouldn’t know. At any rate, Kirby is building on it here in the Fourth World.  The fostering is not really symmetrical since Orion has already grown into a young man, or at least a vicious tween, on Apokolips before coming to New Genesis. That kind of fostering is always going to be more difficult.  Izaya's story (killing a man, a long desert sojourn, encountering God, returning home many years later with a message and a staff) is a retelling of Moses' story in the book of Exodus. The idea of the finger of God writing upon the Source Wall comes from the Book of Daniel.
|
|
