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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 14:12:12 GMT -5
All that WWE needs is the Roya1 (Winter PPV) Rumble, Wrestlemania (Spring PPV), Summerslam (Summer PPV), and War Games (Fall PPV) the Match Beyond. Or bring back In Your House so Americans can try and win a house.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2019 14:16:32 GMT -5
All that WWE needs is the Roya1 (Winter PPV) Rumble, Wrestlemania (Spring PPV), Summerslam (Summer PPV), and War Games (Fall PPV) the Match Beyond. Or bring back In Your House so Americans can try and win a house. Perfect!, In Your House for War Games! {House for a Lucky American that worth a }Million Bucks! Yahoo Baby!
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 20, 2019 23:23:41 GMT -5
Lawrence Taylor was in the main event because he was a bigger star than everyone in the WWF. He was a major NFL name, which means mainstream publicity, which they desperately needed. Nobody in the WWF was drawing and they needed something to pull in a house and LT did it. The NFL halftime shows drew bigger crowds than any Wrestlemania. That's why it was the main event. All things considered, Taylor was probably the best outsider to do a pro wrestling match, as his natural athleticism served him well, he took it seriously and trained to take rudimentary bumps and work a basic match and Bigelow was an agile big guy and a hell of a worker, when he wasn't broken down and messed up on drugs (same for Taylor, given his history).
Nobody was paying to see a Diesel match, Shawn michaels or no Shawn Michaels. Nash was horrible in the ring and no amount of bumping by Shawn was going to change that. Nash was the worst drawing champion in the WWF.
I get what you are saying about a sideshow match vs one with the regular performers; but, in 1995, the regular performers weren't drawing. The WWF was stale, their lockerroom was dysfunctional (and would get worse) and they had massive legal and political troubles. WCW was as bad, if not worse. Both did better on foreign tours, where they were a bigger novelty, which is why they both did a lot of overseas touring int he early-med 90s.
The only Wrestlemania that drew worse than this one was the Los Angeles one, with Slaughter vs Hogan. despite what Vince would have you believe, the change in venue was due to low ticket sales, rather than any potential terrorist attacks. Hogan was beyond played out, by that point and Slaughter as an Iraqi sympathizer fell harder than an iron turd.
If you look at the matches on the card, you can see why they needed Taylor.
Davye Boy & Lex Luger vs Ron & Don Harris (as the Blu Brothers, 'cause why use their real names, which they had been using in memphis and elsewhere). The Harris brothers were still pretty green and Davey and Luger did not make a great team. Luckily, they kept it under 10 minutes.
Razor Ramon vs Jeff Jarrett-Hall could work and Jarrett was a decent worker, at this point, and fairly natural at getting heat. However, they got 13 minutes and a DQ finish. A DQ, at Wrestlemania. Tell me thta didn't involve backstage politics.
Undertaker vs King Kong Bundy-6 minutes of the Undertaker having to work his butt off. Bundy was pretty well done and being jobbed out.
Owen Hart & Yokozuna vs the Smoking Guns- Owen had to work for everyone and Cornette was the one drawing heat. Owen didn't have bad matches; but, the Smoking Guns were not exactly the best tag-team out there. They were still pretty green, having arrived only the year before, from the IWF, in Florida.
Bret Hart vs Bob Backlund-Hart considered this hs worst PPV match. Backlund could work; but, the gimmick he was doing just didn't fit him. If he could have worked a scientific match with Bret, it could have been great; but, Backlund was a man out of his time.
Diesel defending the WWF title (which he should have never even touched, let alone have won and defended) against Shawn, where Shawn has to do all of the work with a guy who had six moves, including a hair flip. Michaels was popping pills and passing out, in this period. In a few months, he would get the s@#$ beat out of him by a US Marine, whose girlfriend he insulted, until Davey Boy got into things and saved his but from ending up hospitalized. No one had sympathy for Michaels and most felt like Davey should have let Michaels take his lumps. Despite Michaels claims, it was one Marine, not a crowd. The rest just watch their buddy destroy the big bad pro wrestler. If that had happened in the territorial days. Michaels would have been fired (more for losing the fight than starting it, in the first place). Michaels could work, if he was sober enough; but, he was becoming a major issue, backstage, at this point and it got worse over the next two years.
Taylor vs Bam-Bam-Bigelow worked his butt off, Taylor adapted well and pulled off his spots well. They kept it short enough not to get into trouble, yet not so short as to make it a mockery, for a main event.
Diesel and Shawn got the most time, which meant Michaels working for 20 minutes, while Nash tried not to tear a muscle entering the ring.
Meanwhile, WCW had done Uncensored, a couple of weeks before, headlined by Hogan vs Vader, in a strap match, with a pretty poor undercard and not a great main event, as Hogan never really put Vader over (he had beaten Vader, by DQ, the previous month, at Superbrawl). Meanwhile, Flair wrestled Antonio Inoki, in North Korea, in front of 160, 000 people (it was a government sanctioned propaganda event). Hogan didn't lose a single PPV match that year and didn't partake in at least 3 events, including Starrcade, WCW's biggest annual event.
If you wanted good wrestling, in 1995, you needed to watch Smokey Mountain, ECW, New Japan, All-Japan or AAA. You weren't going to get it from the WWF or WCW.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2019 4:11:47 GMT -5
There were very few good US matches in 1995. The ones I did enjoy featured Shawn Michaels: his SummerSlam 95 Ladder Match with Razor Ramon, the In Your House 2 IC Title match against Jeff Jarrett; and his bout with Kama at King of the Ring (although Shawn not advancing really irked me at the time). I also liked Bret VS Davey at In Your House V.
WCW? Not much, I'm afraid. Hogan pulling Ric Flair around the ring with a strap to win a strap match against Vader is the worst booking decision ever (maybe).
And what was the point of Diesel and Shawn Michaels winning the tag team belts at In Your House 3 only to be stripped of them almost immediately? So that makes two tag championships that Diesel/Shawn lost without being beaten in the ring.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2019 7:43:01 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 10:26:23 GMT -5
If CM Punk Returns To Pro Wrestling, “It Will Be In WWE”Personally, I'd rather remember CM Punk as he was. His talent was exceptional. He marched to the beat of his own drum - or tried to at times. There's no sign of WWE becoming any less corporate or controlling of its talents. I have no insight into CM Punk's mindset, but he did seem done with wrestling. I know that no-one seems to retire from wrestling, but what would he or WWE gain by a return?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 10:54:40 GMT -5
If CM Punk Returns To Pro Wrestling, “It Will Be In WWE”Personally, I'd rather remember CM Punk as he was. His talent was exceptional. He marched to the beat of his own drum - or tried to at times. There's no sign of WWE becoming any less corporate or controlling of its talents. I have no insight into CM Punk's mindset, but he did seem done with wrestling. I know that no-one seems to retire from wrestling, but what would he or WWE gain by a return? I think he would go to AEW and forget WWE altogether and avoid Vince and Company. AEW would be a better fit for him.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 12:52:33 GMT -5
I watched Mid-Atlantic Championship Wrestling last night (September 12th, 1981). I love the WWE Network! Spoilers ahead!
Bob Caudle and David Crockett, like so many old-school personalities, gave it all a sports-like credibility. Some of the magic has been lost in recent decades, especially since the likes of WWE became so open about it not being a real sport. We always knew, deep down, that wrestling was scripted, but it could be presented as real, just like Westerns are (not a perfect comparison, I know). Caudle and Crockett, clad in smart suits, gave it a legitimacy that allowed you to suspend disbelief - and think of it as a real sport for the 43 minutes running time.
Jake Roberts & Ricky Steamboat took on Mike Miller and Jim Nelson. Displaying some rather heelish tendencies at times, this was a great match. Great tag team psychology. I say that because there were regular tags (both teams), plus both teams did their best to keep their opponents in their corner. Tag team psychology did become semi-extinct over time, a match like this reminds me of how different tag team wrestling is from singles matches. It was also quite a novelty seeing a snake-less Jake Roberts.
I saw something I'd never seen before in the second match, Ivan Koloff VS Terry Lathan: a knee to the back of the head finishing move (from the top rope). Koloff dominated here. And because of the credibility of the whole presentation, I am reminded, although it was before my time, of why some heels had fans try and hurt them. The emotion was very raw.
The Super Destroyer & The Grappler v. Don Kernodle & Scotty McGhee was another good tag bout with proper tag team psychology. Very fast-paced and very brutal, this is why we used to easily suspend disbelief for wrestling.
Sgt. Slaughter practically squashed Mike Davis, forcing him to submit to the Cobra Clutch. A nice solid bout, but very short.
Abdullah the Butcher was very credible - as a heel who just didn't care how much punishment he inflicted - against Ron Ritchie. Abdullah came across as pure, unadulterated evil, backed up the devilish Roddy Piper in his corner.
The episode ended with Ron Bass & Jay Youngblood VS Ricky Harris & Ali Bey. The third tag bout on the card, this was yet another good example of tag team psychology. Cutting your opponent off/keeping him in your corner, and doing regular tags, makes sense from a logical perspective. If I was a wrestler, and wanted to present a product as being real, I would engage in regular tags.
There were some promos during the episode. Nothing long and scripted, just brief and to the point, including the narcissistic Austin Idol.
I really enjoyed this solid, gritty and very credible episode, a throwback to perhaps a more convincing age. Wrestling has lost its magic in recent decades, perhaps inevitably. However, it's great to "hop in a time machine" and see a product from a more simpler time.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 27, 2019 13:00:22 GMT -5
At one time, before George Scott started changing it, Mid-Atlantic was known as a tag-team territory. Flair's early days were in a team with Rip Hawk, plus, you had the Andersons. South started a long program to re-educate fans into cheering for singles matches, with Flair emerging as the star.
Jim Nelson would later wrestle in the AWA and WWF as Boris Zukov.
Ivan used a knee drop as a finisher, going back to when he beat Bruno, for the WWWF title.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 13:04:27 GMT -5
Thank you, I did not make that link between Jim Nelson and Boris Zhukov. Not even for a second.
If I mention any other Mid-Atlantic episodes, and you think I may have not made a link, please tell me. I can see it now after Googling "Jim Nelson wrestler", but just didn't see it during the match.
I vary what I watch on the WWE Network so won't be binge-watching Mid-Atlantic Wrestling (that would get boring with any show).
It was interesting seeing Ron Bass as a face. All I saw of him was his late 80s run as Outlaw Ron Bass in the WWF.
That kneedrop finisher was interesting. As was Jake Roberts using the kneelift as a finisher. Do you know when the DDT became his finishing move?
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 27, 2019 13:06:54 GMT -5
One, the WWE would be more money, for a shorter deal, plus merchandise. He could also command a lighter schedule, like Lesnar. AEW isn't a touring company, yet, and I would suspect he recognizes that they have a long hill to climb. WWE would be a safer bet. Also, he is healed up and too many AEW guys aren't safe workers; so, he would be right to be leery of them. He worked with some of them, in the indies. AEW would probably like to get him for the star power; but, I don't know that they have anything to really offer, at this point.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 27, 2019 13:16:24 GMT -5
Thank you, I did not make that link between Jim Nelson and Boris Zhukov. Not even for a second. If I mention any other Mid-Atlantic episodes, and you think I may have not made a link, please tell me. I can see it now after Googling "Jim Nelson wrestler", but just didn't see it during the match. I vary what I watch on the WWE Network so won't be binge-watching Mid-Atlantic Wrestling (that would get boring with any show). It was interesting seeing Ron Bass as a face. All I saw of him was his late 80s run as Outlaw Ron Bass in the WWF. That kneedrop finisher was interesting. As was Jake Roberts using the kneelift as a finisher. Do you know when the DDT became his finishing move? Not sure if he started it there; but, he used it when he came to Georgia and that is where it got attention in the magazines and everyone started copying it. If memory serves, he came into georgia from Florida, where he had been part of Kevin Sullivan's group. He still used the knee lift; but, the DDT became te finish and the Saturday World Championhip Wrestling show was where it was shown nationally. That would be around 1982-83 (I think it was 83, for the DDT being in use). His knee lift was emulating Mr Wrestling II, who used it as a finisher. If you want some variety, check out the Mid-South shows on the network. Watts always had a sports-based presentation, Jim Ross is a young announcer/interviewer and you see guys like Hacksaw Duggan, presented as a legit badass, plus Ted DiBiase heeling, the Rat Pack (Duggan, DiBiase and Matt Borne), JYD when he was the top draw, and the early days of the Midnight Express vs the Rock N Roll Express. of course, depending on what shows they have up on the network. RNR & Midnight was 84 (I believe) while the Rat Pack was 83ish. Also great to see is Mr Wrestling II turn heel on Magnum TA, as Terry Allen got his first real main event push (he had held a singles title, in Florida, bat had been in tags).
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 27, 2019 13:21:59 GMT -5
ps In Georgia, Jake was part of Paul Ellering's Legion of Doom stable, which included Roberts, King Kong Bundy and the Road Warriors. Eventually, Ellering was just with the Road Warriors and the name became synonymous with them.
Jake feuded with Ronnie Garvin, for the tv title, as well as Brett Wayne, for the National title. It was a match between Jake and Wayne that led to Buzz Sawyer turning face, as it became know that Brett was (legit) Buzz's younger brother. Then, Buzz and Brett teamed up against the Road Warriors.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 27, 2019 13:24:11 GMT -5
Jake vs Ronnie....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2019 14:05:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the info as ever. I shall certainly check out some Mid-South.
Years ago, outside WWF and JCP/WCW, seeing other shows here in the UK was hard. Some USWA tapes were released. There was the "Lord of the Rings" tape hosted by Bill Apter. And there were several releases featuring stuff outside the Big Two. But it was not regular, not as regular as WWF and JCP/WCW.
Some promotions were shown on TV. Japanese wrestling was shown on Eurosport (cable). It was often pot luck. For a while, WCW was not available in the UK unless you watched it on German channel DSF, complete, of course, with German commentary.
We're so lucky now.
I would like to watch some NJPW one day as I believe there is a DVD licensee in the UK. Not sure where to start, though.
I think I'd love to watch some EMLL/CMLL, too.
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