|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 11:12:29 GMT -5
The nWo felt funny at the time, and I'll still laugh at some clips (Hall was hilarious), but I can't watch whole shows now, because it just makes me feel bad for those low and mid-card guys who went out there and busted their butts just to see the main events deteriorate into nothing scums among a buncha clowns who managed to turn not taking the profession seriously into being the focus. Oh and here'a Sting standing around with a bat. Cruiserweights were the only really good thing that WCW had going for it in the long term. I'm more of an ECW guy, but they kind of went off the deep end after Barely Legal with trying to do WWF's Attitude Era one better by adding more extreme matches I've never watched an ECW match. Once Vince bought WCW I watched WWE for a bit but my interest pretty much died with Nitro. I did catch some ROH in a hotel a few years ago, and thought it was pretty solid (Young Bucks and those guys seemed like a well done nWo), and I've been intrigued by what little I've seen of NPJW, but until they get a Roku app I'll never follow them.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 11:54:52 GMT -5
If you ever wish to watch an ECW match, I’d recommend any Tazz/Bam Bam Bigelow bout!
|
|
|
Post by Batflunkie on Jul 11, 2020 16:21:48 GMT -5
I'd heartily recommend the Dog Collar match between the Pitbulls, Stevie Richards and The Blue Meanie of the BWO. Also Rey Mysterio Jr. Versus Psychosis
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jul 12, 2020 11:16:17 GMT -5
I agree it started out well enough, with Hall and Nash as a couple of goons just causing trouble. The Outsider's shtick felt intended as somewhat tongue-in-cheek, similar to DX. It seemed like Hogan thought it was more earnest though, and he always came off as a jackass. I've got nothing to support that, though, it's just my reading of it. Like I said, it worked for me at the time, but going back it got unbearable really quickly. The Foley title leak backfire is hilarious for what a complete loser play it was. It feels so paranoid and petty. Wasn't Nitro winning at that point? What did Bischoff hope to accomplish? One of the things Bischoff did, when the rating were contentious early on, before they started pulling ahead, was give away RAW's taped results, proving that Nitro was live, while RAW was taped. It gave Nitro an "anything can happen" feel, while RAW was the "same old thing." RAW was doing a mix of live and taped and were pre-empted for things, like the Westminster Dog Show. It dig big enough ratings that USA would move RAW to a later time. Bischoff thought that the situation still applied and he was disdainful of Foley. His arrogance missed the fact that Foley was massively over and everyone wanted to see him win the title (though must WCW fans wished he was doing it as Cactus Jack). Ratings had tightened up again and that was pretty much the turning point for the WWF. The NWO angle had grown stale and Vince now had the hot programs, with Austin, Rock and Foley, 2 out of 3 of which Bischoff had let go, because he didn't believe in them.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 11:34:59 GMT -5
I liked the nWo angle originally. I never saw Hogan’s heel turn coming (who did?). That would be like Santa Claus turning heel.
The trio of Hogan, Hall and Nash worked for me. Fake Sting worked for me. But a lot didn’t. The Giant joins, but there’s tension and he is kicked out. Fine. But then he joins again around 1998. I know wrestling involves suspension of disbelief, e.g. Earthquake can kill Jake Roberts’ snake, yet they were prepared to team at Survivor Series 1991 - and cut some promos together. I get that. But why would the Giant have rejoined?
And when 3,456 members joined, it diluted the whole thing.
I didn’t even mind nWo black and white versus nWo Wolfpac. I think a group splitting into two warring factions is a good idea - in theory. That could have had some mileage.
But by late 1998, it was getting depressing. No matter how many wins WCW got over the nWo, the nWo always bounced back. If they lost titles, they’d get them back. I was ecstatic when Luger won the WCW World Heavyweight Championship from Hogan on an episode of NITRO. But about a week later, at ROAD WILD ‘97, Hogan got it back. It felt akin to a long comic book arc where, no matter how well the good guys do, the bad guy just keeps winning - and bouncing back. And not only bouncing back, but kicking the good guys’ asses.
And even though I am a Hogan fan, it felt very selfish when he turned face in 1999. With no build-up. I always envisioned we’d get a Road To Hulkamania redemption arc/angle taking place over many weeks. Instead, the red and yellow was back - and Hogan was thinking only of himself, I’m sure.
1999 was a boring year for WCW. So was 2000. So was 2001. There were very few stand-out moments. We had Russo’s incongruous crap, the arrogance of big stars like Hogan and Sting not even touring the UK, stupid storylines, that BASH AT THE BEACH 2000 fiasco, illogical booking, etc. Horrible, truly horrible. One long car crash. I stuck with it - loyalty, eh? - but it was abominable. From Arquette winning the world title in a tag team match to a pointless Hogan/Billy Kidman ‘feud’, what a pile of crap.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jul 12, 2020 11:42:39 GMT -5
ECW was a strange animal. It started out as yet another Northeastern independent, with rookies and castoff WWF guys, as Eastern Championship Wrestling. It also had a somewhat violent past under its original name, Trui-State Wrestling, promoted by Joel Goodheart. They had some violent matches, but also helped introduce some young guys, including the masked Blackhearts team, 1/2 of which was Vampire Warrior/Gangrel Dave Heath. Goodheart sold out to his money mark, Todd Gordon, who renamed it Eastern Championship wrestling. It was much like other indies of the region, until Eddie Gilbert was hired as booker. He basically wanted to turn it into Memphis, with touches of Puerto Rico and that's what he did and how Paul Hetman got brought in there (they had worked together in WCW and, recently, in Continental). Gilbert upped the gimmick stuff and the rawer edge, then buggered off in search of a better paycheck, leaving Heyman to run with it.
They switched the name to the edgier Extreme Championship Wrestling, in 1994, when they doublecrossed Dennis Coralluzzo and the NWA, at the end of the title tournament to crown the new NWA World champion. Corralluzzo's promotion ran much of the same area as ECW and there had been bad blood; but, they had a truce. ECW had better tv and wwas showing the tournament matches, which is why Shane Douglas was booked to win. When he cut the promo, he announced the name change.
Heyman continued to book more violent matches, focusing on the personalities of his wrestlers, pushing it to a young male audience that listened to grunge and alternative music, adding a lot of T&A, wild matches, and profane promos. However, he also added a lot of talented workers and in betweeb bloodbaths, they had some innovative technical matches. The Eliminators, Perry Saturn and John Kronus, were innovating tag-team spots not seen since the Midnight Express. Then, Heyman started importing guys from Mexico and Japan, bringing Psicosis, Rey Mysterio Jr and Juventud Guerrera up from Tijuana, and Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Chris Jericho and Chris Benoit from Japan. That is part of why WCW started to emphasize the cuiserweights, because of the matches the 4 were having and the luchadors were imported in big numbers based on Rey vs Psicosis, as well as the success of AAA in the US and the When Worlds Collide PPV co-promotion (plus Konan's connections).
For a while, ECW was the place to see cutting edge promos, wild, violent gimmick matches, and some of the best technical matches outside Japan. Heyman understood his audience. he was also good at repackaging wrestlers under gimmicks that better fit their personalities, hiding their weaknesses and emphasizing their strengths. Rob Van Dam, as Robbie V, had been a jobber on WCW tv; but became their innovative flyer/wrecking machine. The Tazmaniac, a dumb savage gimmick, turned into Taz, the Human Suplex machine and pseudo-MMA fighter. Scotty the Body/Scotty Anthony/Scotty Flamingo/Johnny Polo became Raven, who was the misunderstood moody adolescent come back for his revenge on the jocks and opopular kids, which fit the ECW audience to a T. Tommy Dreamer, a pudgy indie guy who was just happy to wrestle became Tommy Dreamer, Hardcore Legend. Surf bumb the Sandman became beer-swilling, cigarette smoking, violent Sandman, entering to Metallica (for about 20 minutes).
Guys like Austin, Pillman and Foley got a chance to show what they could do and say, without inept WCW management. Austin & Pillman had been breaking out as the Hollywood Blonds, when they were split up and Pillman had changed everything with his worked/shoot angle, with Kevin Sullivan. He perfected the Loose Cannon in WCW, which got him into the WWF, when he previously had been seen as too small. Austin got to cut unrestricted promos and let his caustic sense of humor come out, laying the foundation for Stone Cold.
Once WCW and the WWF started stealing their wrestlers and their angles, it started unravelling. Also, Heyman was spending too much to try to expand, without money coming in. PPV money took a couple of months to come in and they were on syndicated tv. TNN seeemd like an answer to their prayers, until they ran into problems over content, which they openly mocked. ironically, that is what pushed TNN to morph into Spike.
Personally, I hate garbage matches and think blood has no place in wrestling. I enjoyed the technical stuff from ECW and some of the personalities; but, I didn't want a stateside FMW. They were more balanced than FMW; but, the end result was much the same, as crowds became numbed to the violence and blood and they had to keep pushing the boundary. Thankfully, they burnt out before they could get as pathetic as CZW and IWA-Mid-South or Jersey Pro.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 11:59:01 GMT -5
My critique is with the benefit of hindsight. It was appointment TV at the time. Knowing how it all ends makes it nearly impossible to enjoy any of it. And I imagine without the nWo the WCW may have faced a similar fate earlier, but at least it would've done so with a little dignity. Like no matter how well it did at the time, when I look back now it feels so mean-spirited and ugly.
DX did a similar thing, and it feels so much more good-natured and accepting the industry. The nWo feels like strip-mining of a promotion. Whether that was intentional or due entirely to bad (but good intentioned) decisions is irrelevant to me.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 14:17:04 GMT -5
I did enjoy ECW - but only in small doses.
It’s shocking to think of the sheer amount of wrestling hours in the 90s, of which I was a hardcore addict. By the late 90s, we had RAW, SMACKDOWN, NITRO, and THUNDER. And that’s before we think about the minor shows. I know some, such as WCW WORLDWIDE, were clip shows towards the end, but the likes of WCW SATURDAY NIGHT did still put on original matches. Less was never more in the wrestling world. And 3 hours of NITRO was too much. 3 hours of RAW is too much. Even the most hardcore wrestling fan doesn’t want to devote their life to wrestling.
If you let it, you’d get burnt out. I check out a highlights show on Channel 5 for RAW and SMACKDOWN. 3 hours of RAW is too much, doubly so given it’s a weekly show. Jeez, I like shows such as THE FLASH and THE WALKING DEAD, but if they became weekly 3-hour shows, no way!
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jul 12, 2020 16:29:19 GMT -5
I liked Geuerrero vs Malenko and benoit vs Sabu stuff, Rey & Psicosis, Too Cold scorpio, Foley doing the anti-Hardcore gimmick, Van Damme vs Jerry Lynn (though there is little psychology in those matches), Taz vs Sabu and Taz vs Van Damme, Raven on the mic, Putbulls vs Eliminators, Raven messing with Dreamer (but not the matches), Lance Storm and Little Guido.
I could do without any Sandman match, New Jack, Axel and/or Ian Rotten, Balls Mahoney (especially how messed up his schtick made him, in the end), Tommy Dreamer in ring, any of the stupid catfight/T&A stuff, Amish Roadkill, a good portion of the Dudleys (they learned to work in the WWF, rather than cut promos and abuse bodies, as in ECW), and watch Terry Funk try to cripple himself, because he wouldn't retire.
I think ECW turned an already damaged Tammy Sytch into a complete trainwreck and the lockeroom is a litany of early deaths due to what went on in ring and in the locker room and elsewhere.
It was a blinding flash of light and a memory.
I'd agree on small doses.
For that time period, I would much rather see Japanese wrestling (especially New Japan and Michinoku Pro, though All Japan was having legendary matches, as well) and AAA. WCW and WWF went through rough periods and I said my piece about ECW. Smokey Mountain was a fun, last gasp at a traditional territory. Global was interesting at the start, but fizzled quickly. Memphis was on auto-pilot, with brief flashes, as it crept towards oblivion.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 5:32:47 GMT -5
I definitely wish I’d seen more USWA, very few tapes were released here.
We did get random wrestling shows here on ITV (Channel 3 to some). But it was pot luck. The WWF had a contract with Sky, so we were never gonna see them on terrestrial TV. But all sorts of other promotions showed up in the early 90s.
The Mexican and Japanese wrestling I saw (90s) was mainly based on tape traders. Some Japanese wrestling on satellite TV. I think UWFI might have aired here, too.
WCW wasn’t always on the air here. At one point, the WCW PPVs aired here - in German and, obviously, on a German station called DSF. As WCW wasn’t always airing here, and videotapes were few and far between, I did watch some PPVs in German!
The pre-internet world, eh?
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jul 13, 2020 22:49:55 GMT -5
USWA was a pale shadow of old Memphis. Prior to that name, they were calling it the CWA, Championship Wrestling Association, a variation on the fictional Continental Wrestling Association that governed the CWA World title and tag-titles, created to give Lawler a world belt. They ultimately unified all of the Memphis belts as the CWA World title (Southern, International and Mid-America titles). This period saw the likes of Scott Steiner, a young Jeff Jarrett, Maxx Payne (aka Man Mountain Rock, in the WWF), and Lawler and some of the old guys, plus Downtown Bruno as the heel manager (aka Harvey Whippleman). They were still affiliated with the AWA and this is when Lawler beat Curt Hennig to win the AWA title and teamed with World Class to unite their two titles at AWA SuperClash III. That fell apart when Lawler didn't get paid and took his new Unified World title back home, but defended it in Cintinental (Alabama) and World Class. That would set up the merger with the Von Erichs and the USWA. They had some young talent, like Master of Pain/Punisher Dice Morgan, aka Mark Calloway, the future Undertaker, Cactus Jack manson, aka Cctus Jack, aka Cactus Jack Foley, aka Mick Foley, Steve Austin, Brian Lee, Brian Christopher (Lawler) and more. The Dallas end was doing poorly and Jarret eventually shut it down. There was some good stuff in there; but, early-mid 80s Memphis stuff is fantastic, with The Fabulous Ones, the birth of the Rock N Roll Express, Jimmty Hart's First Family, young Jim Cornette, Dutch Mantell, Austin Idol, Andy Kauffman, Superstar Bill Dundee, Terry Funk, the empty arena match, the Tupelo Concession Stand Brawl, Koko B Ware and Bobby Eaton as a tag-team, Ricky & Robert Gibson as a tag-team, Randy Savage invading memphis tv, Lawler vs Idol, Lawler vs Savage, Savage vs Idol, Savage & Leaping Lanny vs Rock N Roll Express, etc, etc..
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jul 15, 2020 18:38:03 GMT -5
Dave Lagana has resigned as NWA Vice President, in the wake of allegations made by Liz Savage, a wrestler who lived with Lagana in LA, in 2010. She claims she woke to find him touching her and himself, then rolled over to make it stop. She was then asked to move out of the house. Lagana has denied the accusations, which can be read here.The NWA put out a press release and their website says they have temporarily ceased production of new content, while they re-arrange roles. This is not good for them, as Lagana was putting together much of the video content that was keeping the NWA name alive during the pandemic. However, he has a history of questionable behavior, including feeding inside information to websites while working in the WWE, after being warned about it. he was busted when spy software on a company laptop proved he was passing info along, in violation with his employment terms. Cornette cited him as the main issue in his break with the NWA, over his joke, perceived by some as racist. Lagan was responsible for editing the show and let it go out with the joke, which suggest he didn't have issues with it, until criticism came on Twitter, from an anti-Cornette audience. Lagana took no responibility for the joke airing and Cornette decided to walk away from the NWA. There are also reports that NWA talent have been given a temporary release from their contracts to seek bookings and the NWA isn't planning on returning to live/tape events before January. Right now, Devon Nicholson, aka Hannibal, has an interview (if you call his monotone questioning an interview) with Raven about Corgan and Raven's response is he believes (and he is not what I would call a credible source) Coragn is shutting it down permanently. First, I don't think Raven is in any position to know the first thing about the inner workings of the NWA, as he has had no involvement and sounds more like the wrestling rumor mill, which is notoriously FOS. The pandemic has killed their momentum and I don't see wrestling podcasts on Youtube as being able to save them until they can run again, which even they see isn't going to happen this year. The WWE has had several test positive, including Rusev, and there are rumors of some in AEW. I have no idea. Dave Marquez has been the other major component of the Billy Corgan NWA. he is the Championship Wrestling from Hollywood promoter and one of the key links to the NWA past. He also provided the tv connection for the earliest efforts at rebuilding the brand, as seen in the Ten Pounds of Gold series. He co-promoted the NWA title match in China, with Nick Aldis defending against Colt Cabana. Jocephus and Crimson are producer of NWA Power. What happens from here, though, remains to be seen. Corgan still has a career of his own to manage. I can't see total shutdown; but, I can see it being more like the Ten Pounds of Gold days, where he owns the titles and books the champion for dates with other promoters, assuming anyone has shows down the road, when things stabilize and are safe.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 12:09:55 GMT -5
BASH AT THE BEACH 1995 aired 25 years ago today: I did like the atmosphere of this PPV - and the beach setting was unique. Randy Savage and Ric Flair also had a spirited match. And then there was the main event featuring Hulk Hogan defending the WCW World Heavyweight Championship against Big Van Vader (this was Vader’s final WCW PPV). You know I’m a Hogan fan, but I can be objective. Hogan should have lost to Vader at least once via pinfall during their feud, with Hogan getting the win in their final match. Good must always prevail over evil, of course. Their SUPERBRAWL V match ended inconclusively. And I really was not pleased about Hogan beating Vader in a strap match at UNCENSORED ‘95 by dragging Ric Flair from turnbuckle to turnbuckle. And he beat Vader by climbing outside of a cage (I never liked the idea of a cage match where the winner is the guy who escapes, isn’t that cowardice?). What a feud! No pinfalls in any of their matches. Had I booked it (I know it’s easy to be an armchair general), I’d have had Vader beat Hogan for the belt at SUPERBRAWL V via pinfall, nefarious means or not. At that point, Hogan would have had a seven-month run. I’d have had them battle in an inconclusive match at UNCENSORED ‘95. And then Hogan would have pinned Vader at BATB ‘95 to end the feud. That would have meant two pins apiece - and a five-month world title reign for Vader. Really, what did we fans gain from.a feud where no-one got pinned? What did we gain from an UNCENSORED bout where someone who wasn’t even in the match took the ‘loss’? I know Hogan’s WWF tenure had been a monster-slaying one. But in the era of monthly PPVs, and given how WCW was, a few more pinfall losses would not have gone amiss for the Hulkster.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 19, 2020 7:46:37 GMT -5
There is definitely something going on COVID-wise in AEW, but its not clear what. They delayed the Moxley-Cage Title match a couple weeks.. the rumors were that Moxley had COVID... then they said on air it was his wife, and that they were just waiting for 2 clear tests.. who knows how much of that is true.
I don't read the 'dirt sheets' much anymore, but most of the other absences (like Pac and the Lucha Bros, who are now back) seem to have stemmed more from travel restricts than anything else.
It's hard to say though, Best Friends were conspiciously absent this week (even with the big Orange Cassidy-Jericho angle still in play), and Darby Allin, who was red hot, just can back from an 'injury'... I can't imagine it was worked, because it was a terrible time to take him off TV.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 8:36:06 GMT -5
I don’t read newsletters now, either. I cancelled the WRESTLING OBSERVER subscription recently. And tried PRO WRESTLING TORCH.
I think I need to get back to enjoying (or not enjoying) wrestling on its own terms. Yes, part of the decision was financial as I am thinking about luxuries to cancel during this global health emergency.
But do I really need to listen to the opinions of newsletter writers? Plus, there seems to be a negative spin of about 95% on everything. There’s nothing wrong with calling out events or matches you think are bad, but the constant negativity is depressing.
That doesn’t mean I’ve put on rose-tinted glasses. But there can be good things to find. I don’t think honesty is bad - we can all agree some PPVs are bad - but I wish the newsletter writers could try and be more supportive/positive while not necessarily fawning over everything.
There has to be a balance. I’m not asking for a newsletter writer to claim every match/PPV is astounding, but I don’t want one who picks apart everything, including things that have not yet taken place. A bit of positivity wouldn’t go amiss.
|
|