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Post by tarkintino on Jul 16, 2019 14:36:00 GMT -5
So... um... I kinda like the Rob Liefeld Captain America.  |
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 16, 2019 15:26:30 GMT -5
I remember after Dave Gibbons had moved on there were some very poor Doctor Who comics in the British monthly. They usually had excellent writing and dialogue but there were a few amateur hour runs in there (Michael McMahon did a great Cybermen story around that time too however), so I keep those issues not for the art but for the writing and text features.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 15:35:37 GMT -5
In some Doctor Who strips I read (some of them), the characters were merely cyphers. The stories were dialogue-heavy and the dialogue often felt redundant ("I am about to zap you with my super-duper device.").
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Post by tarkintino on Jul 16, 2019 16:00:42 GMT -5
I remember after Dave Gibbons had moved on there were some very poor Doctor Who comics in the British monthly. They usually had excellent writing and dialogue but there were a few amateur hour runs in there (Michael McMahon did a great Cybermen story around that time too however), so I keep those issues not for the art but for the writing and text features. I have some issues of the old UK kids' magazine Look-in for their various adaptations of U.S. TV series (that American publishers passed on). One such adaptation covered the short-lived Logan's Run TV series; the stories were occasionally superior to the TV series, but Arthur Ranson--a solid artist on other projects--inexplicably provided plain, uninspired art, almost if he traced publicity stills and what he was not provided, he substituted with generic characters in a very loose panel layout. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 16:53:54 GMT -5
So... um... I kinda like the Rob Liefeld Captain America. some of the ideas were OK and I liked when he carried them over to his brief Fighting American series at Awesome |
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Post by berkley on Jul 16, 2019 17:17:27 GMT -5
Frank Robbins' style was 'noisy'... I like his old Johnny Hazard comics better than those Invaders and the one Daredevil I have he filled in on (though it suited the story well as Daredevil's senses were wonky). I really like the Johnny Hazard strip, which I've been reading off and on over the past couple years, and for that reason have become a little hesitant to criticise his superhero art as harshly as I used to do. From what I remember of his art on books like Daredevil, I still don't like what codystarbuck called his rubbery figure work, but think I can see some of the strengths he showed on Johnny Hazard come through n the backgrounds and other aspects. Again from memory, I think his work on Captain America might have looked better to me than his DD, but I'd have to read those comics again to say for sure.
Definitely like the Hazard stuff, though, however good or bad he might have been on the superhero books.
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Post by MWGallaher on Jul 16, 2019 17:48:23 GMT -5
I love these for primarily nostalgic reasons. First, Dracula (the superhero) by Tony Tallarico:  Aesthetically, I really kind of like the "pop art" look of this though. It's a page that has stuck in my memory since I first bought this comic in the early 70's. Next, a page from the first comic I remember having, at age 6, M.F. Enterprise's Captain Marvel:  There's nothing technically "good" about any of the art in this entire series, but I'm gosh darned fond of its simple and modest imagery. You can count me in the pro-Don Perlin group. Maybe it's just because I was so devoted to the Defenders, but in my later years, I've developed an appreciation also for his work on Werewolf by Night and Ghost Rider. Yeah, it's stiff, but still somehow appealing to me. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Jul 16, 2019 18:45:15 GMT -5
Bob Hall wasn't so bad. As one of the few graduates of John Buscema's short-lived comic art classes, he had a firm grasp of Marvel-style sequential storytelling. The problem with that Avengers run was attributable to his following Shooter's constipated layouts (much as Dave Wenzel was hamstrung by them for the conclusion of the Korvac storyline earlier). I quite liked his issues of Super-Villain Team-Up, especially because he is the only penciller to model his Dr. Doom after the Gene Colan version rather than Kirby's. Hall was certainly better than Don Perlin, whose stiff, ugly art drove first Werewolf By Night then The Defenders straight into their graves.Cei-U! The defense rests!
You may not be a Don Perlin fan, but Perlin driving WBN and the Defenders "straight into their graves" is questionable. I'll concede to indulging in a bit of hyperbole there, hondo, but I really find nothing to like about Perlin's art. Granted, he was a competent storyteller and there was never a question of what was going on in his panels but clarity doesn't make up for ugly, unimaginative, lifeless art. I stuck with Werewolf, Ghost Rider, and Defenders despite his presence but I resented the hell out of it, and I do absolutely believe that his continued presence on Werewolf led to diminished sales and ultimately cancellation (though you're also right that Defenders was doomed regardless of who was at the drawing board).
While I loved Frank Robbins' work on Batman and The Shadow at DC, I didn't care for most of his Marvel work. I can't help but think that if Invaders had had a Wally Wood or John Severin on the art, someone with a more classically illustrative style, it would've been a much bigger hit.
Cei-U! I summon the second thoughts!
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 16, 2019 18:46:02 GMT -5
I have a love for the Fighting Chance Captain America Storyline that ran from # 425-443, and I believe that the artist , Dave Hoover was a bit maligned. I personally, didn't think his artwork was bad, but others disagree.
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Post by Graphic Autist on Jul 16, 2019 20:23:03 GMT -5
Loved Frank Robbins art and felt it fitted the time period more than anyone else who worked on the series. It was at its best with Frank Springer inking, though. Robbins' stuff looked like the Golden Age, it felt like the 1940s. His rubbery figures and cartoony style made the action flow and added a visual excitement, in my opinion. I agree with you...as a kid, I bought a lot of Invader comics from a used bookstore for 20 cents each, and I thought the art was an attempt to mimic the old Marvel books from the 40s. I loved that series as a kid. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 16, 2019 21:09:02 GMT -5
I have a love for the Fighting Chance Captain America Storyline that ran from # 425-443, and I believe that the artist , Dave Hoover was a bit maligned. I personally, didn't think his artwork was bad, but others disagree. I was looking at The Invaders #1 from 1993 and thought it looked pretty good with Dave Hoover art. The only thing that made me think of artists I don't care for is the grimacing gritted and half open mouths on the cover (who did the corner box, they are straining at stool there, sheesh).. oh and Captain America's waist...  Yeah, that waist really does kind of ruin it for me, well drawn up to that point. r.i.p.  |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jul 16, 2019 21:58:43 GMT -5
So... um... I kinda like the Rob Liefeld Captain America. some of the ideas were OK and I liked when he carried them over to his brief Fighting American series at Awesome I didn't read that. Maybe I should? But the basic premise - Decomissioned, amnesiac super-solider living a normal life - was a lot stronger than the "frozen in a block of ice" thing that Lee 'n Kirby came up with. And, I mean, Leifeld's pretty bad at most aspects of his craft but I always get a sense that he's having fun drawing superheroes. I really like that sense of enthusiasm and enjoyment. |
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Post by hondobrode on Jul 17, 2019 0:34:44 GMT -5
You may not be a Don Perlin fan, but Perlin driving WBN and the Defenders "straight into their graves" is questionable. I'll concede to indulging in a bit of hyperbole there, hondo, but I really find nothing to like about Perlin's art. Granted, he was a competent storyteller and there was never a question of what was going on in his panels but clarity doesn't make up for ugly, unimaginative, lifeless art. I stuck with Werewolf, Ghost Rider, and Defenders despite his presence but I resented the hell out of it, and I do absolutely believe that his continued presence on Werewolf led to diminished sales and ultimately cancellation (though you're also right that Defenders was doomed regardless of who was at the drawing board).
While I loved Frank Robbins' work on Batman and The Shadow at DC, I didn't care for most of his Marvel work. I can't help but think that if Invaders had had a Wally Wood or John Severin on the art, someone with a more classically illustrative style, it would've been a much bigger hit.
Cei-U! I summon the second thoughts!
Perlin is not pretty, but kind of like M.W. Gallaher said, there's something about it that has grown on me over the years. I only had a couple issues of WBN, and they were ok, and I really liked both The Defenders and Ghost Rider.
His work kind of reminds me of Al Milgrom in a way : competent but sort of uneven or shaky, but in a way kind of a simpler retro appeal like Tom Scioli or Ed Piskor, both of whom I enjoy in a primitive throwback way.
Werewolf By Night was just played out by that time IMO. Defenders degenerated later, especially after 100 IMO, and I liked Ghost Rider, though not a huge fan, but something about that original Bronze Age run, with Perlin, as well as Bob Budiansky after him, really had a comfortable feel to them.
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Post by tarkintino on Jul 17, 2019 3:49:22 GMT -5
While I loved Frank Robbins' work on Batman and The Shadow at DC, I didn't care for most of his Marvel work. I can't help but think that if Invaders had had a Wally Wood or John Severin on the art, someone with a more classically illustrative style, it would've been a much bigger hit. I agree; Robbins' work was so harsh and erratic compared to the Marvel style which dominated their books of that period--a style you see on many of The Invaders' covers during the Robbins run. His work did not support the story, but served as a jarring distraction. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 17, 2019 6:04:10 GMT -5
I have a love for the Fighting Chance Captain America Storyline that ran from # 425-443, and I believe that the artist , Dave Hoover was a bit maligned. I personally, didn't think his artwork was bad, but others disagree. I was looking at The Invaders #1 from 1993 and thought it looked pretty good with Dave Hoover art. The only thing that made me think of artists I don't care for is the grimacing gritted and half open mouths on the cover (who did the corner box, they are straining at stool there, sheesh).. oh and Captain America's waist... Yeah, that waist really does kind of ruin it for me, well drawn up to that point. r.i.p. I'm not sure he if he was encouraged to draw like the Image 7. That certainly was the era. |
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