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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 17, 2019 6:09:32 GMT -5
Bob Hall wasn't so bad. As one of the few graduates of John Buscema's short-lived comic art classes, he had a firm grasp of Marvel-style sequential storytelling. The problem with that Avengers run was attributable to his following Shooter's constipated layouts (much as Dave Wenzel was hamstrung by them for the conclusion of the Korvac storyline earlier). I quite liked his issues of Super-Villain Team-Up, especially because he is the only penciller to model his Dr. Doom after the Gene Colan version rather than Kirby's. Hall was certainly better than Don Perlin, whose stiff, ugly art drove first Werewolf By Night then The Defenders straight into their graves. Cei-U! The defense rests! This is a page from Avengers # 213 , where Hank is courtmartialed. It's better than I remember it, but still not great. Again, He becomes much better when the 90's arrive.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 6:27:44 GMT -5
I have a love for the Fighting Chance Captain America Storyline that ran from # 425-443, and I believe that the artist , Dave Hoover was a bit maligned. I personally, didn't think his artwork was bad, but others disagree. Same here. I didn't think his art was that bad. Just another artist probably told to mimic the Image style at that time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 6:28:54 GMT -5
Loved Frank Robbins art and felt it fitted the time period more than anyone else who worked on the series. It was at its best with Frank Springer inking, though. Robbins' stuff looked like the Golden Age, it felt like the 1940s. His rubbery figures and cartoony style made the action flow and added a visual excitement, in my opinion. I agree with you...as a kid, I bought a lot of Invader comics from a used bookstore for 20 cents each, and I thought the art was an attempt to mimic the old Marvel books from the 40s. I loved that series as a kid. I felt the same way. Robbins' art captured the golden age look the series needed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 6:34:27 GMT -5
some of the ideas were OK and I liked when he carried them over to his brief Fighting American series at Awesome I didn't read that. Maybe I should? But the basic premise - Decomissioned, amnesiac super-solider living a normal life - was a lot stronger than the "frozen in a block of ice" thing that Lee 'n Kirby came up with. And, I mean, Leifeld's pretty bad at most aspects of his craft but I always get a sense that he's having fun drawing superheroes. I really like that sense of enthusiasm and enjoyment. Not a lot to buy. 2 issues where Rob uses his Capt America ideas with his art framing touched up Stephen Platt art from what would have been the next arc on Cap written by Loeb. Then 3 issues of Jeph Loeb/Ed McGuiness which was more like the 50's version of FA. And then 3 issues of Jim Starlin/Stephen Platt which was violent and Image like.
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 17, 2019 8:56:02 GMT -5
Frank Robbins was just as much of an inducement for buying the Invaders as seeing the Golden Age characters in Roy Thomas stories was. That his style was jarring compared to Marvel's house style was the point. He was perfect for the look and spirit of the title. And absolutely, Springer's inks were much better on Robbins' pencils than Colletta's were, but even asa colletta-disser, I never thought Vinnie's inks took very much away from the headlong old-fashioned style of Robbins' artwork. Perhaps the Sickles/ Caniff heavy blacks took some getting-used-to, and I'll admit, gave Robbins' art a "smudgy" look at times, I still much preferred it to the blandness of the Sal Buscema look of most Marvel comics. Robbins' art always reminded me of the work of Frank Borth, just darker in presentation.
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Post by brutalis on Jul 17, 2019 9:22:01 GMT -5
I say stop the nay saying on Robbins and Perlin!!! Disliking an artist is purely a personal choice and I prefer to find things to like about ANY artist than to simply stating they are "bad" artists.
I adored the uniquely and daringly different art style of Robbins on Invaders. As others have stated, it was MEANT to showing us a different time and to reflect the Marvel Golden age art style. Robbins gave us a gravitas and depth to this comic spotlighting WWII that many appreciated and admire.
Perlin was an artist that was reliable and whose more simple art style might be overshadowed by all the flashier and fanciful artists, but during his time at Marvel I enjoyed seeing his work whenever it appeared on the racks. And while he might not be a fan favorite and get the big platitudes, there is a substantial group of folks who recognize that he has produced more work and enjoyable comic books than many a "fan favorite" has ever done. Pick up the Essential Ghost Rider and Defenders for seeing his work in pure black and white and you may find yourself liking it more than you might believe!
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 17, 2019 9:43:02 GMT -5
It is a good pairing to have an earlier style or older artist on a comic set in the past. There was a '70s Fred Kida Captain America I remember liking a lot though not set in the past. I love the Mike Parobeck Justice Society comics as much for the classic art style as the story.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 17, 2019 9:57:44 GMT -5
Bob Hall wasn't so bad. As one of the few graduates of John Buscema's short-lived comic art classes, he had a firm grasp of Marvel-style sequential storytelling. The problem with that Avengers run was attributable to his following Shooter's constipated layouts (much as Dave Wenzel was hamstrung by them for the conclusion of the Korvac storyline earlier). I quite liked his issues of Super-Villain Team-Up, especially because he is the only penciller to model his Dr. Doom after the Gene Colan version rather than Kirby's. Hall was certainly better than Don Perlin, whose stiff, ugly art drove first Werewolf By Night then The Defenders straight into their graves. Cei-U! The defense rests! This is a page from Avengers # 213 , where Hank is courtmartialed. It's better than I remember it, but still not great. Again, He becomes much better when the 90's arrive. I would describe that as decidedly pedestrian. I do feel like it was better in the original printing on newsprint with non-computer coloring.
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Post by beccabear67 on Jul 17, 2019 10:10:59 GMT -5
I think there have been Supergirl comics with art I didn't like that I bought or kept just because they were Supergirl and I didn't want to break a run of issues... although I think it may've been a lot more about try-out costumes for the issue more than the artwork I didn't like. I do remember Tales Of Suspense #49 having rather poor art with a Ditko/Reinman combination, but it was early, an X-Men crossover, and I figured it was probably a real rush job. Looking at it now online it doesn't look bad at all, especially from the original art pages! I thought the Don Heck Iron Man and Ant-Man/Giant Man comics I had were all great so a bit of a drop from those anyway. Perlin and Springer were also very good as inkers I always found.
I love the way Tigra is glaring in that Avengers page. I would say the inking and coloring let's the pencils down.
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Post by tarkintino on Jul 17, 2019 11:26:39 GMT -5
I adored the uniquely and daringly different art style of Robbins on Invaders. As others have stated, it was MEANT to showing us a different time and to reflect the Marvel Golden age art style. Was that ever confirmed about his Invaders work? Its not as though he had a different style before getting on that title, then changed it to fit some suggested plan to make his work appear like that from the Golden Age. That was Robbins' style long before he was assigned to the title. Speaking of Golden Age artists, those who worked for Timely and/or Atlas (just to name a few) such as Vince Alascia, Syd Shores, Bill Everett, Russ Heath and John Romita produced some very tight, sometimes striking work that pointed a clear direction toward what was to come in the Silver Age...and it bore no resemblance to Robbins' work. Early Everett could be what one might call "simplistic", but he certainly matured as an artist (thinking of his work on the G.A. Marvel Tales, for one), and like the others, had a coherent, appealing style that advanced the story without fighting against it as a distraction.
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Post by chadwilliam on Jul 17, 2019 11:33:28 GMT -5
There was a time when Bob Kane really was, if not the primary artist, then the guy who did most of artwork on Batman. I'm not saying the period lasted very long (say, from 1939 until about 1942) but his last couple of years on the character were absolutely horrid. Batman looked like he was about three feet tall and made up of round, globular muscles to the point where he looked as if someone had to bend his joints into those awkward 90 degree angles for him between panels because there was no way this guy was moving of his own accord. Cross-eyed criminals who got hit would be depicted with their tongue hanging out of their mouths sometimes with little birdies tweeting around their skulls, and everything looked so stiff - even corpses looked exaggeratedly lifeless!
The thing is, I think his 1939/early 1940 stuff is great and I suppose the change came when the Batman title came around with its extra four stories an issue compared with the single stories he was previously doing for Detective, but man, how I would have loved to seen the first appearance of The Penguin, Two-Face, and the Scarecrow drawn by anybody else. It's like listening to The Beatles catalogue sung by Gilbert Gottfried.
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Post by tarkintino on Jul 17, 2019 12:14:49 GMT -5
There was a time when Bob Kane really was, if not the primary artist, then the guy who did most of artwork on Batman. I'm not saying the period lasted very long (say, from 1939 until about 1942) but his last couple of years on the character were absolutely horrid. Batman looked like he was about three feet tall and made up of round, globular muscles to the point where he looked as if someone had to bend his joints into those awkward 90 degree angles for him between panels because there was no way this guy was moving of his own accord. Cross-eyed criminals who got hit would be depicted with their tongue hanging out of their mouths sometimes with little birdies tweeting around their skulls, and everything looked so stiff - even corpses looked exaggeratedly lifeless! A case where the creation did more for the "talent" than the other way around, for all of the mileage Kane got from all things Batman. Wow! Yeah, Kane's "skills" went south quickly, but you have an interesting way of pointing out how far his work sank!
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Post by brutalis on Jul 17, 2019 13:20:19 GMT -5
I adored the uniquely and daringly different art style of Robbins on Invaders. As others have stated, it was MEANT to showing us a different time and to reflect the Marvel Golden age art style. Was that ever confirmed about his Invaders work? Its not as though he had a different style before getting on that title, then changed it to fit some suggested plan to make his work appear like that from the Golden Age. That was Robbins' style long before he was assigned to the title. Speaking of Golden Age artists, those who worked for Timely and/or Atlas (just to name a few) such as Vince Alascia, Syd Shores, Bill Everett, Russ Heath and John Romita produced some very tight, sometimes striking work that pointed a clear direction toward what was to come in the Silver Age...and it bore no resemblance to Robbins' work. Early Everett could be what one might call "simplistic", but he certainly matured as an artist (thinking of his work on the G.A. Marvel Tales, for one), and like the others, had a coherent, appealing style that advanced the story without fighting against it as a distraction. I think so. I remember reading somewhere that Marvel had told Robbins to "amp" up or emphasize the hero/action to being more exaggerated/Marvel like than his usual style. Don't remember the specifics or the actual article or magazine though. I could be mis-remembering but I think in the article, Robbins himself said that he had a difficult time adjusting to the exaggerated super heroics poses.
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Post by MDG on Jul 22, 2019 11:36:45 GMT -5
Robbins' art always reminded me of the work of Frank Borth, just darker in presentation. This Borth reminds me of Severin/Elder. I tend to like artists who don't try to be too "slick": Robbins, Spiegle, Sparling, Springer--Win Mortimer did some Legion stories where it looks like he was just "drawing," not trying to do "company comics." These people should always ink themselves. I never knew what the hell was going on with Tallarico, though he seemed to get work. And sometimes he could turn out interesting stuff:
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