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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 10:49:06 GMT -5
Sam Hamm, screenwriter for Tim Burton's Batman, was interviewed by Michael Kronenberg for Back Issue #113. He was asked about the Nolan films. I thought it'd be interesting to share what he thought about The Dark Knight:
I think he may have a point! I read about the George W. Bush comparisons when the film came out.
I can enjoy the Nolan films. But there is a double-edged sword at play when it comes to being a fan: you rewatch movies, you notice things you hadn't, you spot things you feel should have been done better (which feels presumptuous and arrogant). For instance, I'd have liked more Gordon/Wayne scenes in the films. Many more. But I realise they can only fit so much in.
A friend of mine claims that if you took Batman out of The Dark Knight, it would be pretty much the same film. He also told me that he considers Nolan's trilogy good - but feels they are not good Batman films, only good films.
Any views on Hamm's quote?
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,867
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Post by shaxper on Jul 31, 2019 16:28:58 GMT -5
Holy wow is it cool to hear from Sam Hamm again!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 1, 2019 6:01:11 GMT -5
Sam Hamm, screenwriter for Tim Burton's Batman, was interviewed by Michael Kronenberg for Back Issue #113. He was asked about the Nolan films. I thought it'd be interesting to share what he thought about The Dark Knight: I think he may have a point! I read about the George W. Bush comparisons when the film came out. I can enjoy the Nolan films. But there is a double-edged sword at play when it comes to being a fan: you rewatch movies, you notice things you hadn't, you spot things you feel should have been done better (which feels presumptuous and arrogant). For instance, I'd have liked more Gordon/Wayne scenes in the films. Many more. But I realise they can only fit so much in. A friend of mine claims that if you took Batman out of The Dark Knight, it would be pretty much the same film. He also told me that he considers Nolan's trilogy good - but feels they are not good Batman films, only good films. Any views on Hamm's quote? It’s good for people to reflect on some matters, but I have two objections to what appears to be too severe a judgement... The first is that the whole concept of Batman-type superheroes since the mid 80s has been inherently fascist; due process and presumption of innocence are simply ignored, undue force is used to apprehend suspects, bodily harm is unlawfully inflicted by self-appointed keepers of what’s right and good, and no “hero” has to answer for their actions. We readers accept it not out of naiveté (or a lack or moral compass!) but because we cut creators some slack in their modern retelling of what are often Wild West stories, in which a lone vigilante has to take the law into their own hands because no one else is available to enforce it. Also, the movie made it clear that global surveillance was an evil great enough for Julius Fox to threaten to quit over it, and Bruce relented.
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Post by Cei-U! on Aug 1, 2019 10:22:52 GMT -5
I don't care much for Nolan's Batman trilogy, partly for the reasons Hamm suggests, but mostly because its Batman operates without any apparent regard for the lives and property of the innocent. I prefer a more conscientious (sp?) Dark Knight.
Cei-U! I summon the dubious role model!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 1, 2019 12:01:45 GMT -5
The Nolan Bat-flicks are barely competent action movies. As Batman movies they are a bust. The fact that they are increasingly bad with each new installment is sad.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2019 12:57:54 GMT -5
The Nolan Bat-flicks are barely competent action movies. As Batman movies they are a bust. The fact that they are increasingly bad with each new installment is sad. As I have a love-hate relationship with aspects of the movies, I'd welcome any further comments you may wish to share.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,867
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Post by shaxper on Aug 1, 2019 14:50:03 GMT -5
I don't care much for Nolan's Batman trilogy, partly for the reasons Hamm suggests, but mostly because its Batman operates without any apparent regard for the lives and property of the innocent. I prefer a more conscientious (sp?) Dark Knight. Cei-U! I summon the dubious role model! They're lacking as Batman films. However, I consider Dark Knight one of the greatest crime films of all time, almost on par with The Godfather. Dislike the Batman, but love the film. As for Dark Knight Rises, I adored it when I saw it in theaters and am afraid to go back and watch it again for fear that it will actually suck terribly in hindsight.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2019 15:17:09 GMT -5
I have bad feelings about Christopher Bale Batman Movies because I just had a hard time enjoying Anne Hathaway's appearance of Catwoman, Bale was too bizarre looking, and Heath Ledger's Joker was too insane and the makeup was done horribly in my opinion. I felt that Bale's opening movie one with Liam Neeson as Ducard, Cillian Murphy as Dr. Jonathan Crane / The Scarecrow, and Ken Watanabe as Ra's Al Ghul was too much for me to bear and keep track of. That's why I did not enjoy that film at all and I tend to agree Slam_Bradley & Cei-U! arguments about Nolan's films. I had a hard time enjoying Maggie Gyllenhaal as Rachel Dawes and I wished Katie Holmes was available in all three Nolan's films. Because of that; I watched all three films at the theaters and never, ever bother seeing it again ... that's why I did not like all three films and they got more and more progressively worse each time they are shown.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 1, 2019 15:57:30 GMT -5
I don't care much for Nolan's Batman trilogy, partly for the reasons Hamm suggests, but mostly because its Batman operates without any apparent regard for the lives and property of the innocent. I prefer a more conscientious (sp?) Dark Knight. Cei-U! I summon the dubious role model! They're lacking as Batman films. However, I consider Dark Knight one of the greatest crime films of all time, almost on par with The Godfather. Dislike the Batman, but love the film. As for Dark Knight Rises, I adored it when I saw it in theaters and am afraid to go back and watch it again for fear that it will actually suck terribly in hindsight. I'm...I'm speechless. I mean good for you. But...wow!
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Post by Duragizer on Aug 1, 2019 16:22:20 GMT -5
I liked Batman Begins & The Dark Knight well enough at the time, but subsequent viewings of each film have reduced my opinion of them considerably. I don't like "realism" in superhero movies, and I don't like Nolan's pretentious, convoluted storytelling in general. For those reasons, I never bothered to see The Dark Knight Rises.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 1, 2019 17:07:25 GMT -5
I don't care much for Nolan's Batman trilogy, partly for the reasons Hamm suggests, but mostly because its Batman operates without any apparent regard for the lives and property of the innocent. I prefer a more conscientious (sp?) Dark Knight. Cei-U! I summon the dubious role model! They're lacking as Batman films. However, I consider Dark Knight one of the greatest crime films of all time, almost on par with The Godfather. Dislike the Batman, but love the film. As for Dark Knight Rises, I adored it when I saw it in theaters and am afraid to go back and watch it again for fear that it will actually suck terribly in hindsight. I quite liked The Dark Knight Rises!I’m not a Batman fan, so I don’t mind if the Nolan character is not true to the spirit of the old comic-book; but simply considered as the concluding part of the Nolan trilogy, it works really well. The Dark Knight Rises is not just another adventure of Batman, it is the end of the journey begun in the first film. Bruce Wayne is now barely holding in one piece with duct tape and stubbornness due to his dangerous career choices, and in agreement with any proper hero’s journey he must now go through a terrible gauntlet, know defeat, and come back from the pits of despair. After this instalment, any fourth Nolan Batman movie would have been as superfluous and odd as a fifth opera in Wagner’s tetralogy. When the story’s done, it’s done! Plus, Bane is hilarious. What a great comic-book movie villain. His fake debonair attitude, his funky voice, his weird political agenda (what is it, a Robespierre-Nietzsche-Marx salad?) and his matter-of-fact brutality all contribute to make him more interesting (if less visually striking) than the Joker. Yeah, the plot about an island cut off from the mainland for a year is hard to swallow. But so is the plot of most super-hero films, and this one does not colour outside the accepted lines. I would watch it again with confidence, shaxper!
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Post by tarkintino on Aug 3, 2019 19:32:51 GMT -5
Hamm wrote a terrible "Batman" film, so the fact he says anything negative about one of the best of all superhero films (which still stands out in a sea of cartoony junk past and present, otherwise known as the Burton/Schumacher Bat-films, and most of the MCU) makes him seem bitter because he knows the general view from superhero fans and regular film goers alike is that TDK was/is a great film, a great Batman film (that finally delivered Batman the right way), and not Burton's wrongheaded freakshow.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 11:56:58 GMT -5
It was a very interesting interview with Hamm (loved the whole issue).
I'd love to see them do a book about the making of the movie, but a really in depth one, on par with the JW Rintzler Making of Star Wars books. Something where they compare all the different drafts of the film.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 13:22:16 GMT -5
It was a very interesting interview with Hamm (loved the whole issue). I'd love to see them do a book about the making of the movie, but a really in depth one, on par with the JW Rintzler Making of Star Wars books. Something where they compare all the different drafts of the film. I'm still working my way through the issue. I love how wordy BI is. Next up, the article on the Batman newspaper strips!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Aug 5, 2019 8:30:59 GMT -5
I really like the Dark Knight.
It's an extremely dense movie, thematically, so it seems a little absurd to boil the whole movie down to one simple allegory so you can get huffy about it.
RR did a good job showing why the "war on terror" take is a lot more nuanced than Hamm is giving credit for, but even if his point wasn't iffy I see it as more'n a little intellectually lazy to boil the Dark Knight down to being about just one thing.
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