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Post by chadwilliam on Apr 11, 2020 18:06:53 GMT -5
Having just skimmed through this 16 page thread I may have missed it, but has anyone added 'Astro City' to the list of great comics from the 90's? A thing of beauty from the covers, interiors, and especially Busiek's writing. And I'll also add The Tick. I actually find the various mini-series released during this decade to be even better than what Ben Edlund was doing with his creation in the 80's. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 18:21:54 GMT -5
It didnt help that comics were ever increasing in prices, and I dont just mean for the special covers, they went from a dollar in 1990 up to $2.50 (or sometimes more) by 1999, therefore pricing it out of the way out of casuals or kids. Somewhat ironically, those same issues would more often than not wind up in dollar bins or even quarter bins only a couple of years later. This is what happens when you take a product from the mass market and make it a niche hobby product. Prices for niche hobby products are always higher than similar products in the mass market because of economy of scale. The inflation index which people use to try to prove comics increased too much in relation to the market doesn't apply to hobby products, so it is irrelevant to the conversation. Comics went up in price because they became a niche market product, and when compared to other niche hobby products are relatively inexpensive by comparison. Plus the market showed it was willing and desirous of paying higher prices for the same product. When Marvel decided to produce a regular edition (on standard paper) and a deluxe edition (on better paper) of the same comics with the deluxe edition being priced $1 more than the standard edition for a year, sales on the deluxe edition were about 10 times higher than sales on the standard edition. Se essentially the comic book consumer base n the direct market told Marvel they wanted to pay more for the same product, and Marvel listened. And as Dan Didio pointed out in a recent interview, sales numbers over the course of his tenure at DC showed the market is price resistant, i.e. price increases did not appreciably impact sales over the long haul and that the core customer was going to buy the stuff they want no matter what it is priced. As much as the anecdotal evidence from individual consumers saying they quit because price went up, sales and revenue essentially remained unchanged for the core products despite price changes over the decade plus he was in charge. There was attrition/decline. but that level of attrition did not increase when there were price increases, it remained at a pretty constant rate throughout. So there is no evidence of a causal relationship between increased prices and lost customers. -M |
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 11, 2020 18:37:55 GMT -5
And I'll also add The Tick. I actually find the various mini-series released during this decade to be even better than what Ben Edlund was doing with his creation in the 80's. I only have Tick's Back #0 and Tick: Big Romantic Adventure, but I liked what I read. What's funny is that both of them are penciled by entirely different artists, but they both look about the same visually, which is nice. I don't like to think of NEC having a house style, but it's refreshing to see the artwork being consistent for The Tick
How many of you have read Bongo Comics' Radioactive Man? I think that might have been, along with 1963, one of the better titles to come out of the decade
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 11, 2020 19:06:53 GMT -5
It didnt help that comics were ever increasing in prices, and I dont just mean for the special covers, they went from a dollar in 1990 up to $2.50 (or sometimes more) by 1999, therefore pricing it out of the way out of casuals or kids. Somewhat ironically, those same issues would more often than not wind up in dollar bins or even quarter bins only a couple of years later. That, to me, is the fundamental problem of the American superhero comic-book. It was created as a cheap and disposable product, and remained so for most of its existence. The continental european market, by comparison, sold comics as proper books; more expensive, but not as disposable. When economic realities drove prices up, everyone suffered... but a hardcover is kind of like a car; prices may go up, but they still seem to be justified. Floppies, meanwhile, had to suffer price increases that may have been partly justified by the increase in production values (better printing better colour, often better art) but were still asked for items that look like disposable material. I know that today, as a professional with a steady income, I have no problem paying dozens of dollars for certain hardcovers (European or American) but couldn’t justify paying five bucks for twenty pages of Captain America punching the Red Skull (again). |
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Post by electricmastro on Apr 11, 2020 20:11:05 GMT -5
Any general thoughts on DC’s longer-running titles from the late 80s and 90s?:
Hellblazer (1988-2013)
Looney Tunes (1994-Present)
Flash (1987-2006)
Superman (1987-2006)
Wonder Woman (1987-2006)
Green Lantern (1990-2004)
Robin (1993-2009)
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (1992-2007)
Scooby-Doo (1997-2010)
Nightwing (1996-2009)
Green Arrow (1988-1998)
Legion of Super-Heroes (1989-2000)
Superboy (1994-2002)
Catwoman (1993-2001)
Impulse (1995-2002)
Animal Man (1988-1995)
Justice League America (1989-1996)
Doom Patrol (1987-1995)
Legionnaires (1993-2000)
Starman (1994-2010)
The New Titans (1988-1996)
Supergirl (1996-2003)
Star Trek (1989-1996)
Aquaman (1994-2001)
The Books of Magic (1994-2000)
Sandman (1989-1996)
Shade, the Changing Man (1990-1996)
Suicide Squad (1987-2010)
Lobo (1993-1999)
Preacher (1995-2000)
The Spectre (1992-1998)
Hitman (1996-2001)
The Dreaming (1996-2001)
Transmetropolitan (1997-2002)
Animaniacs (1995-2000)
The Demon (1990-1995)
Steel (1994-1998)
Hardware (1993-1997)
Justice League Europe (1989-1993)
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 11, 2020 20:20:49 GMT -5
-Loved Hardware (sucker for Iron Man knock-offs like X-O), Preacher, and Transmetropolitan
-Liked what I've read so far of Flash, Animal Man, Doom Patrol, Catwoman, and Green Arrow, which wasn't much unfortunately
-90's Green Lantern is just a cosmic stew of highs and lows. Started out really, really solid, then Hal turned into Paralax. I wanted to like Kyle's run, but it took so damn long for the book to garner it's own sense of identity after Hal went bad that IDK. I think there's a reason why DC is stopping production of reprints for Kyle's run
-Shade The Changing Man was just so weird that I'm honestly not sure if I either love it or hate it
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 20:24:12 GMT -5
I picked up a nice run of Preacher from #1 up just before the prices soared. I was a big fan of Punisher (Ennis/Dillon) so I didn't regret it.
Most of the other books in that list didn't do much for me and I tend to maybe thumb through some of them, but by and large ignore them.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 11, 2020 21:42:57 GMT -5
Any general thoughts on DC’s longer-running titles from the late 80s and 90s?: Hellblazer (1988-2013) Looney Tunes (1994-Present) Flash (1987-2006) Superman (1987-2006) Wonder Woman (1987-2006) Green Lantern (1990-2004) Robin (1993-2009) Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (1992-2007) Scooby-Doo (1997-2010) Nightwing (1996-2009) Green Arrow (1988-1998) Legion of Super-Heroes (1989-2000) Superboy (1994-2002) Catwoman (1993-2001) Impulse (1995-2002) Animal Man (1988-1995) Justice League America (1989-1996) Doom Patrol (1987-1995) Legionnaires (1993-2000) Starman (1994-2010) The New Titans (1988-1996) Supergirl (1996-2003) Star Trek (1989-1996) Aquaman (1994-2001) The Books of Magic (1994-2000) Sandman (1989-1996) Shade, the Changing Man (1990-1996) Suicide Squad (1987-2010) Lobo (1993-1999) Preacher (1995-2000) The Spectre (1992-1998) Hitman (1996-2001) The Dreaming (1996-2001) Transmetropolitan (1997-2002) Animaniacs (1995-2000) The Demon (1990-1995) Steel (1994-1998) Hardware (1993-1997) Justice League Europe (1989-1993) Transmetropolitian is Ellis' best work, and it incredibly relevant still today.. fantastic series. What the kids call the 'Gaiman-verse' today (Books of Magic, Sandman, and it's spin offs) are all excellent as well.. you left off Lucifer (my favorite). I've never got into Hellblazer, but lots of other people will tell you great things about it. I enjoyed the 2nd generation of DC... Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern, Wally West as Flash, and Connor Hawke as Green Arrow. This was the time I was most into the main DCU (from a bit before Zero Hour to, oh, maybe 1998 or so)... I LOVED Peter David's Aquaman, and Priest's Steel. Nightwing was hit of miss. Superman I read some during the triangle era, but I was almost more interested in the minor characters. New Titans is terrible.. once Titans hunt happened the magic was gone, no matter how many times they've tried to recapture it. Starman is very much it's own thing, and is great, especially if you're into the history of the DCU Spectre I've only read some of, and only recently, but what I read was excellent, and I'd read more if they'd put the darn trades out. This period was definitely MY Legion, but it's far less popular than the earlier ones... It was bright and optomistic without being hokey, IMO. Justice League Europe is easy to skip, unless you're a big fan of the characters. HItman was great fun... not as big a fan of Preacher.. it started out decent, but was too over the top for me as it continued.. been meaning to re-read it though to see if it's aged well. Most of the other stuff I haven't read much or any of. |
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 11, 2020 21:45:19 GMT -5
not as big a fan of Preacher.. it started out decent, but was too over the top for me as it continued.. been meaning to re-read it though to see if it's aged well. But the fact that it was so over the top was what made it so fun to read, at least for me. That's kind of why I like Ennis' first run of Punisher so much |
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Post by hondobrode on Apr 11, 2020 21:52:31 GMT -5
Any general thoughts on DC’s longer-running titles from the late 80s and 90s?: Hellblazer (1988-2013) Looney Tunes (1994-Present) Flash (1987-2006) Superman (1987-2006) Wonder Woman (1987-2006) Green Lantern (1990-2004) Robin (1993-2009) Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (1992-2007) Scooby-Doo (1997-2010) Nightwing (1996-2009) Green Arrow (1988-1998) Legion of Super-Heroes (1989-2000) Superboy (1994-2002) Catwoman (1993-2001) Impulse (1995-2002) Animal Man (1988-1995) Justice League America (1989-1996) Doom Patrol (1987-1995) Legionnaires (1993-2000) Starman (1994-2010) The New Titans (1988-1996) Supergirl (1996-2003) Star Trek (1989-1996) Aquaman (1994-2001) The Books of Magic (1994-2000) Sandman (1989-1996) Shade, the Changing Man (1990-1996) Suicide Squad (1987-2010) Lobo (1993-1999) Preacher (1995-2000) The Spectre (1992-1998) Hitman (1996-2001) The Dreaming (1996-2001) Transmetropolitan (1997-2002) Animaniacs (1995-2000) The Demon (1990-1995) Steel (1994-1998) Hardware (1993-1997) Justice League Europe (1989-1993)
Hellblazer (1988-2013) always solid and entertaining
Looney Tunes (1994-Present)
Flash (1987-2006) huge span here but overall very good. Started off strongly with Mike Baron and Butch Guice, Mark Waid had a very long enjoyable run, Grant Morrison and Mark Millar were in there for a short run, and Geoff Johns made a name for himself with this title
Superman (1987-2006) some of my favorite comics in here with work by John Byrne, Roger Stern, Jerry Ordway, Dan Jurgens, and Jeph Loeb (his best work IMO). For the most part, DC has had really good creative teams on this title.
Wonder Woman (1987-2006) starts off with George Perez putting his stamp on, and setting the mold of the character, for the new post-COIE DC, and some ok stuff including a run by John Byrne, but really shines when Greg Rucka comes aboard
Green Lantern (1990-2004) the best was Ron Marz run
Robin (1993-2009)
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (1992-2007) all over the board from weak with nice art to exceptional
Scooby-Doo (1997-2010)
Nightwing (1996-2009)
Green Arrow (1988-1998)
Legion of Super-Heroes (1989-2000) the infamous 5YL storyline, which I loved, followed later by the Archie Legion, which I also loved
Superboy (1994-2002) highlight was Karl Kessel and Tom Grummett's second run starting with # 50
Catwoman (1993-2001)
Impulse (1995-2002)
Animal Man (1988-1995) one of the most overlooked run's of DC / Vertigo - young Grant Morrison doing incredible stuff here
Justice League America (1989-1996) Keith Giffen, Marc DeMatteis, Kevin Maguire, Ty Templeton very entertaining
Doom Patrol (1987-1995) not overlooked and really cemented Grant Morrison's reputation; weird but highly entertaining and the DP were never the same again
Legionnaires (1993-2000) see Legion of Super-Heroes
Starman (1994-2010)
The New Titans (1988-1996)
Supergirl (1996-2003) Peter David and Gary Frank very good
Star Trek (1989-1996)
Aquaman (1994-2001)
The Books of Magic (1994-2000) not a big Harry Potter fan but really, really like this series. Surprisingly good
Sandman (1989-1996) are you kidding ? some of the best comics ever made
Shade, the Changing Man (1990-1996)
Suicide Squad (1987-2010)
Lobo (1993-1999) a one-trick pony played for over-the-top laffs again and again and again, but fun in small doses
Preacher (1995-2000) loved it
The Spectre (1992-1998)
Hitman (1996-2001)
The Dreaming (1996-2001)
Transmetropolitan (1997-2002) must read
Animaniacs (1995-2000)
The Demon (1990-1995)
Steel (1994-1998) Christopher Priest good stuff
Hardware (1993-1997) like most Milestone Media, surprisingly good. Picked up my first issues in a bargain bin thinking they were just going to be a cheap Iron Man knock off, which to a lesser degree they were, obviously, but what they did with the character was really good
Justice League Europe (1989-1993) not as good as Justice League International
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 12, 2020 7:48:23 GMT -5
Having just skimmed through this 16 page thread I may have missed it, but has anyone added 'Astro City' to the list of great comics from the 90's? A thing of beauty from the covers, interiors, and especially Busiek's writing. And I'll also add The Tick. I actually find the various mini-series released during this decade to be even better than what Ben Edlund was doing with his creation in the 80's. Oh, yes Astro City was a thing of beauty. One of the few true landmarks of that decade. |
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 12, 2020 8:06:30 GMT -5
Any general thoughts on DC’s longer-running titles from the late 80s and 90s?: I was not a fan of this entry in the GL "franchise". Similar case--the first DC series (1984-88) landed right in the middle of the strongest period for the ST movie franchise (1984's Star Trek III - The Search for Spock) and captured so much what was great about the movie characters and environment at that time. It was the best ST comic published up to that date. The '89-'96 series not so much. Ostrander had a firm grip on how to use the character, and its ending was not only bold (meaning to end a series when its time to do so), but heartfelt. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Apr 12, 2020 14:18:18 GMT -5
Any general thoughts on DC’s longer-running titles from the late 80s and 90s?: Flash (1987-2006) Superman (1987-2006) Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight (1992-2007) Starman (1994-2010) The Spectre (1992-1998) The Flash - only part of the series I read or remember reading was Mark Waid's " The Return of Barry Allen" from issues 73-79 of that title. I read it at the time and loved it and re-read it recently and it holds up just as well. Actually, in the 'Moments Which Ring True' thread elsewhere on these forums, Wally West asking for free medical insurance in return for getting a donated heart to its recipient piqued my interest enough to read that first issue which I also enjoyed. Don't know if its indicative of the rest of that early run, but I thought it was an interesting take. Superman - I'm not a fan of the Post-Crisis Superman and find Byrne's artwork from his run to be excellent and his writing to be atrocious to the point of being offensive. However, there is a period following Byrne's departure in 1988 up until about 1991/92 which contains some great stuff. "Krisis of the Krimson Kryptonite", "Time After Time", the death of Luthor, Lois Lane learning Superman's identity, etc. included amongst that. I strongly recommend you check out Shaxper's excellent review thread of this period which starts with Byrne's Man of Steel and covers pretty much everything up to about 1991 so far ("so far" because it's an ongoing thread). I would, however, strongly suggest you to avoid anything from the Mullet era. Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight - actually a nice sampler of what Denny O Neil, Grant Morrison, Matt Wagner, James Robinson, etc were up to in the early 90's so long as you're OK with it all being Batman stories. I think the series was consistently good from issue one up until about issue 23. After that, highlights (IMO) would include " Faces" by Matt Wagner, " Blades" by James Robinson, " Sanctum" by Mike Mignola, " Criminals" by Steven Grant and Mike Zeck, " The Sleeping" by Scott Hampton, and " Stories" by Michael Gilbert. Starman - a great series. James Robinson's Jack Knight Starman didn't seem like a take I'd be interested in based on my superficial first glance, but I discovered I was gloriously wrong when I actually read a few tpbs. Been a while since I've read it, but I remember it having rich characterizations and compelling plot lines. The Spectre - Really strong series which used The Spectre to answer some very thought provoking questions. The series ended at the creators' behest and the fact that DC allowed this helps show the respect they had for the work they did. It offered an interesting take on The Spectre whose acceptance that his mission on Earth to rid the world of crime was an impossible and therefore never ending task led to some interesting and dark tales. At one point, for instance, he enters a prison and kills every person on death row except one. When asked why he left that guy alone, he responds "because he's innocent". Asked if this means he intends to interfere with his scheduled execution, The Spectre explains that that's not his mission, but points out that should the man be executed after being informed that he's not guilty of the crime he was sentenced to death for, The Spectre will turn his attention towards every person who had a hand in that execution. So quite a bit of how do ordinary people trying to uphold the legal system cope and respond to God's agent of vengeance walking amongst them. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2020 1:16:06 GMT -5
One series I did really enjoy from the late 1990s...Battle Chasers, albeit the serious time lag between certain issues made it it lag for several years.
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Post by badwolf on Apr 13, 2020 12:23:34 GMT -5
Any general thoughts on DC’s longer-running titles from the late 80s and 90s?: Hellblazer (1988-2013) Flash (1987-2006) Wonder Woman (1987-2006) Legion of Super-Heroes (1989-2000) Animal Man (1988-1995) Doom Patrol (1987-1995) Starman (1994-2010) The Books of Magic (1994-2000) Sandman (1989-1996) Shade, the Changing Man (1990-1996) Suicide Squad (1987-2010) Preacher (1995-2000) The Dreaming (1996-2001) Hellblazer is one of the best and most consistent series I've ever read. I collected over 200 issues (one of my longboxes is all Hellblazer) and while I certainly have favorite stories, it was never not good.
Flash - I really liked Geoff Johns' run.
Wonder Woman - Perez is okay, and I enjoyed what I've read of Byrne and Phil Jimenez.
Legion - I only got into them after this period, when Abnett, Lanning and (mostly) Coipel were on it.
Animal Man and Doom Patrol are two of my all-time favorite series. Grant Morrison at his best. After Morrison on Animal Man there is a handful of issues by Pete Milligan that are also great. I collected it for a long while after but didn't really feel into it any more, but it probably suffers from comparison to the mind-bending stuff Morrison did. Don't bother with Rachel Pollack's Doom Patrol, it's awful.
Starman is great. I only read it recently in the collected editions. It's an ongoing series that actually functions as a "graphic novel" in that it has a distinct long-form story and closure at the end.
The Books of Magic... I really liked it for a while but at some point I lost interest. Maybe it just ran on too long, or my tastes were changing. Sometimes I think about getting the collected editions and rereading it.
Sandman... if you have to ask... 
Shade, the Changing Man - I don't remember much about this one but I do remember really liking it. I'd love to see an omnibus.
Suicide Squad was good. I think I dropped it after 30-40 issues but only because I was moving away from superhero comics.
Preacher - I liked it at first but it eventually got too extreme and gross for me.
The Dreaming - Good until Caitlin Kiernan takes over and it becomes Matthew & Corinthian Team-Up.
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