|
|
Post by profh0011 on Aug 23, 2019 21:07:46 GMT -5
all the indies that I was following had pretty much jumped the shark as well: Mage 1 had finished, Mage 2 hadn't started and I loathed Grendel; Nexus had massively jumped the shark with the interminable Next Nexus; Badger and American Flagg had gone off the boil; I'd lost interest in Concrete; Elementals had disappeared up its own butt How well I remember that period.
I thought the real problem with NEXUS was when both Steve Rude AND his regular fill-in guy Paul Smith jumped ship at the same time... and they spent at least a year with a different artist on every episode, finally settling on one of the least-talented as the "new regular" guy. And the story where Horatio quit and that other guy took his place went on WAYYYYY too long and became interminable.
It was miraculous they got the rights back when First went belly-up and Dark Horse picked them up. I recall they decided that from then on, ONLY Baron & Rude would ever again do any new NEXUS... and EVERY new story they did, was just INCREDIBLY good, totally blowing everything they'd ever done before out of the water. (But somehow... the sales kept going down. Apart from them not doing it monthly, I suppose one could blame "the economy". Even I haven't been able to keep up with them after Dark Horse dropped the series. Which really saddens me, as Rude remains my FAVORITE comics artist still working in the field.)
AMERICAN FLAGG got, if anything, even more pathetic than NEXUS for awhile... until they did the infamous "apology" issue. And then they started "Volume 2", where Chaykin oversaw a steady team he put together, "Japanese studio" style, where someone else did the pencils, inks, and writing... but it looked, felt and read as if Chaykin had done it himself. DAMN. And what a joke they had when, in issue 12, they announced the "mini-series" was ending at 12 issues, "as always intended", when they had NEVER told anyone this in the previous 12 months! Way to go out with a bang.
I've never really liked anything Chaykin has done since as much as AF. Except mabe his work on THE FLASH tv series in the 90s.  |
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Aug 23, 2019 23:57:24 GMT -5
I never warmed to American Flagg much. What happened in the apology issue?
|
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Aug 24, 2019 1:14:30 GMT -5
Ty Templeton seems to have always been an amazing artist/cartoonist. I think maybe he broke in through Captain Canuck? I remember a Mister Canoe-head one-shot as well (based on a Canadian tv comedy bit). I think I only ever saw Kelly Jones art on some Micronauts after Guice left it. I associate lots of cape with Todd McFarlane. Well, Berni Wrightson and Marshall Rogers were doing that even earlier. First noticed Ty, as a fill-in artist on Justice league, in the BWA-HA-HA years. He dd some great stuff with Elongated Man, as well. Love his site. I would say that Wrightson had already taken the Batman costume (not only the cape but also the ears, IIRC?) as far as it go without looking ridiculous, but Jones took Wrightson's Batman as a starting pint and then exaggerated even more on top of that.
Of course - as should go without saying - I recognise that this is all a matter of personal taste and that lots of people, in fact the majority of comics fans in the 90s, loved all this stuff.
|
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Aug 24, 2019 13:32:02 GMT -5
I never warmed to American Flagg much. What happened in the apology issue? I only read it once, but, if memory serves... they assembled an entire issue of flashbacks made up of the issues with the WORST art and writing, with editorial narration added, and at the end, admitted they'd SCREWED UP BIG-TIME, and promised they wouldn't do it again. This was followed by a much-better story by an entirely new creative team, which brought the current situation to a close, which then led into the 12 issues of "Volume 2", where Chaykin supervised a relatively new direction for the series, only admitting at the end of a year that it was (ALLEGEDLY!!) always meant to be a 12-part storyline. I'm still not sure if they were telling the truth or not.
First's biggest problem was, they wanted so badly to compete with "the big two" that they insisted that all their books be monthlies, whether the people doing them could manage that or not. With NEXUS, there was that period where they had 2 regular artists alternating-- with Rude doing 6 issues in a row and Smith doing 4, then repeat. I wish more series had come up with something that consistent. Most of their books... the team that created the book would leave, replaced by VASLY-inferior teams... who would eventually be replaced by EVEN MORE inferior teams.
GRIMJACK somehow managed to be-- generally-- very good no matter who they got to draw it. But for the longest time it just got more... DEPRESSING. Until they pulled that stunt where all of a sudden, they JUMPED about 200 years into the future, and picked up with a guy who turned out to be the reincarnation of John Gaunt, Jim Twilley. And with Flint Henry on art, the books got both more fun-- but also MORE SICK AND DEPRAVED, at the same time. I loved it... until Ostrander ramped up the bad kharma to such a degree that it looked like there was NO way out... and then, abruptly, KILLED off the book's hero!
He swore the next story would "fix" things...  but RIGHT then, First went bankrupt!!! It took years before I was able to "forgive" Ostrander for what he'd done. It was so nasty...
And then years later... he and Tim Truman reunited for a NEW John Gaunt story... so the Jim Twilley situation is STILL left hanging, decades later.
Truman has become the ONLY artist who does "grim and gritty" that I can tolerate... because he's SO MUCH better at it than anybody else.  |
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Aug 24, 2019 20:55:57 GMT -5
Chaykin had only plotted the first 13 issues, then had to start coming up with stuff. He never really expected it to go very long. he also was getting better offers from DC and left the series to other hands. This was the issue in question, with a narrator taking us through past storylines...     Chaykin returned to plot issues 47-50, which Mindy Newell scripted and Paul Smith (47-48) and Mike Vosburg (49-50) drew. Then the Volume 2, Howard Chaykin's American Flagg (as titled in the indicia and on covers) started with Chaykin plot's, Newell scripts and Vosburg art. John moore took over scripting with issue 2 and remained until the end, with issue #12. Vosburg did the art for the whole of HCAF. Personally, I liked the Nexus stuff, through the end. i preferred Rude on art; but, was fine with the others. It got a bit wonky there, for a bit; but, remained interesting. |
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Feb 18, 2020 7:19:37 GMT -5
I really like the 90's because the new and older comic companies were trying new things that involved the fan more. I'm currently reading The Breed from the Bravura line. Jim Starlin created it and the publisher created an incentive for the fan to buy all the books. It had stamps that you would place on a card provided by a comic shop, to send in to get special variants. Of course that was a way for them to get you to buy the entire line. Which I did.   |
|
|
|
Post by adamwarlock2099 on Feb 19, 2020 8:51:57 GMT -5
Well, Berni Wrightson and Marshall Rogers were doing that even earlier. First noticed Ty, as a fill-in artist on Justice league, in the BWA-HA-HA years. He dd some great stuff with Elongated Man, as well. Love his site. I would say that Wrightson had already taken the Batman costume (not only the cape but also the ears, IIRC?) as far as it go without looking ridiculous, but Jones took Wrightson's Batman as a starting pint and then exaggerated even more on top of that. Of course - as should go without saying - I recognise that this is all a matter of personal taste and that lots of people, in fact the majority of comics fans in the 90s, loved all this stuff.
The only thing I liked about McFarlane doing Batman covers (during Starlin's run) was his over exaggerated cape that made Batman look almost supernatural. Albeit he was basically just drawing Spawn, but still I liked it. But not Jones' Batman much. And I started reading Batman when he was doing the art. I do think his art fit the vampire Batman books though. And I like the equally less exaggerated very basic Batman of Matt Wagner. (Though none of covers of three issues he did really showcase it well.)  |
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Feb 19, 2020 9:00:43 GMT -5
Batman Legend of the Dark Knight was a good book. I enjoyed the rotating creative teams which featured top talent as opposed to inventory stories. I think from 1-75 was the highlight of the series. That's one of the Batman books that I really liked and the Gene Colan era was another.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 9:12:51 GMT -5
The Fantastic Four was really bad for the majority of the 90's (1991-1997).
|
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Feb 19, 2020 9:18:06 GMT -5
The Fantastic Four was really bad for the majority of the 90's (1991-1997). I must be one of the weird ones because I loved the run from when Lyja was discovered as the replacement for Alicia. Defalco and Ryan had me riveted through the death and resurrection of Reed Richards. |
|
Roquefort Raider
CCF Mod Squad
Modus omnibus in rebus
Posts: 17,440 
Member is Online
|
Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 19, 2020 9:40:10 GMT -5
The Fantastic Four was really bad for the majority of the 90's (1991-1997). I must be one of the weird ones because I loved the run from when Lyja was discovered as the replacement for Alicia. Defalco and Ryan had me riveted through the death and resurrection of Reed Richards. Not weird... exceptional!  It's great that many stories, even when they're not very popular, can still find their audience. I really disliked Defalco's FF (as well as his Thor, come to think of it), but I'm glad some people enjoyed them. |
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Feb 19, 2020 10:45:59 GMT -5
I read it maybe every few years.
|
|
|
|
Post by adamwarlock2099 on Feb 19, 2020 11:10:37 GMT -5
I remember liking the Claremont/Larrocaa FF that started in 1998, I think. Granted I don't think I've read it more than once but it seemed to hold my interest. Though I do like Larroca's art so that may have been what held my interest more than the writing. But as far as pre Heroes Reborn FF, I didn't buy FF for the any other time in the decade much so I really can't say.
|
|
|
|
Post by tartanphantom on Feb 19, 2020 11:52:42 GMT -5
Ostrander and Mandrake's Spectre.
James Robinson's Starman.
Matt Wagner's Sandman Mystery Theatre.
All birthed in the 90's, and all excellent thought-provoking series... And all overshadowed (along with many other 90's books) by the popularity of a certain Marvel/Image artist who could draw strapping muscle-bound characters wielding huge futuristic weapons, but couldn't draw feet on his characters to save his life. And I'm not referring to McFarlane either.
|
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Feb 19, 2020 13:59:58 GMT -5
Just read a stinker from 1997... one-shot Colossus #1 (co-starring Meggan). So many bad things in one package: Landing on a street in Paris 'for fun' narrowly missing pedestrians and cracking the pavement leaving behind footprints, yeah surrrre, and then they just walk off? Totally idiotic writing and visualization right off (not counting the pointless pin-up first page). Arcade with a robot of his female assistant he killed cracking wise the whole story while tormenting the characters. The often ridiculous muscles on Colossus plus the straining at stool grimace face, and bizarre positions for Meggan. Really bad, illogical, not funny but thinks it is, story with somewhat bad '90s excesses pencil art (both shall remain nameless), but quality inking by Paul Neary I guess, and the coloring and lettering seems free of major flubs. What a dog though... this marks the dividing line for me... buy no Marvel earlier than this Oct. 1997 cover date. Eecch! And they were plastering every comic with 'World's Greatest' on the covers at this time. In the next few months a lot of titles seemed to find their feet though, or start or end, leading to a mini-golden era in my opinion.
|
|
but RIGHT then, First went bankrupt!!! It took years before I was able to "forgive" Ostrander for what he'd done. It was so nasty...
