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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 5:12:44 GMT -5
Having grown up in the 80s, I read a lot of Batman comics, so am going to be clouded a little by nostalgia. That said, my favourite era of Batman is actually the 1970s. In the late 80s, UK licensees reprinted a lot of 70s Batman stuff, so I'm actually more nostalgic for an era from before I was born. Plus, I think most UK Batman annuals of the 80s reprinted 1970s stuff.
While one can never achieve 100% objectivity, I do have fond memories of 80s Batman. And I do think he had a renaissance of sorts, with lots of new characters created, lots of interesting paths, etc. I'm all for editors using fan favourites such as Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Catwoman, etc. But there's no harm in creating new characters, although redundancy should be avoided (it'd be silly, for instance, for the Spidey comics to introduce an electricity-themed villain).
For starters, we got some great storylines such as "A Death in the Family" and "Batman: Year One". These are classics, in my view. Also, as much as I love classic creative teams such as Denny O'Neil and Len Wein, not to mention those from the 30s/40s, I love the work done by the likes of Jim Aparo and Mike DeCarlo. And then there's Alan Grant/Norm Breyfogle. Oh, and who doesn't love "The Untold Legend of the Batman"? I am almost certain, subjective though everything is, that top Bat-issues and Bat-one shots from the 80s would make any number of Top Ten lists, including "Batman: The Cult".
I like that some of my favourite Bat-villains were introduced in that era, such as Ratcatcher, Ventriloquist, Killer Croc, etc. Bats has a great rogues gallery, but equally impressive is that decades after all the greats were created, the Bat-Office did it again by creating all these new villains. And then there's Anarky!
We got a new solo Bat-book in Legends of the Dark Knight. I know I've complained about multiple books at times, but back during more innocent times, it was great to get a third Bat-book, especially as it featured tales from different eras - and some of them may have been apocryphal (do I have that right, that some may be non-canon?). I think LOTDK is a great name for a title, too.
I've excluded a lot I could say. There were so many great arcs, stories, new villains, etc. I stand by the fact that nostalgia can cloud things a little, but objectively speaking, and I have revisited some, the stories do stand up. And while the likes of Ratcatcher and others may not have soared as high as Joker and Riddler, they have carved out their own niche.
Any 80s Bat-memories? Share them here!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 2, 2019 5:38:10 GMT -5
I enjoyed the Moench, Newton & Alcala era. It’s probably my favourite take on the character.
(I was floored by Batman Year One, though. The Mazzuchelli art was amazing and the pacing was great for an origin story).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 6:19:08 GMT -5
For me alone is the Moench and "Batman Year One" and "The Untold Legend of the Batman" ... I read these a thousand times and I really enjoy it immensely.
In the 80's ... Ventriloquist and Killer Croc were my two most favorite villians.
Anarky ... for my own understanding ... never, ever appealed to me. Sorry.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 2, 2019 6:25:31 GMT -5
Dude, After the Keaton movie, you couldn't walk the streets without seeing a Batman tee shirt with the shield in front.
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 2, 2019 7:28:53 GMT -5
My feelings about '80s Batman are apparently out of step with most of you. For me, the '80s meant the death of "my" Batman.While I enjoyed Mazzuchelli's art, I thoroughly hated what Miller did to the character and his world in Year One. I prefer a Batman who is motivated by his parents' death to use his skills and intellect to prevent the violent deaths of other innocents, not one so scarred by those murders that he must obssessively exorcise those demons by waging total war on criminals 23/7. The detective, not the psychotic. The shift in tone and outlook was especially hard to take because the work of Wein, Wolfman, Conway, and Moench had been so good, especially compared to the long fallow period that came after the O'Neil/Adams revamp (the Goodwin and Englehart runs being the exception). The post-Crisis Batman totally turned me off and contributed significantly (along with the resurrection of Jean Grey) to my decision to walk away from comics completely in late '86. There's a reason my Batman collection ends at Batman #400/Detective #566, and why I turned to the animated titles for my Batman fix when I got back into comics eight years later.
Cei-U!
I summon the disillusion!
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Post by EdoBosnar on Nov 2, 2019 8:29:29 GMT -5
I would add, as a sort of footnote to Cei-U!'s observations above, that I'm always mystified as to why Year One is often ranked highly as one of the best Batman stories ever, when Batman is almost like a supporting character in it. Most of the story (and character development) seems to revolve around Jim Gordon rather than Bruce/Batman.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 9:04:51 GMT -5
Regarding "The Untold Legend of the Batman", it was revealed that Thomas Wayne was the first Batman. Did that retcon survive post-Crisis?
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Post by chadwilliam on Nov 2, 2019 11:03:27 GMT -5
Regarding "The Untold Legend of the Batman", it was revealed that Thomas Wayne was the first Batman. Did that retcon survive post-Crisis? Thomas Wayne's outfit did show up in the Bat-Cave occasionally but I don't recall it being referenced beyond that with two exceptions (both of which transpired after I stopped reading any of the titles so there might be others). Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight 132-136 " Siege" had a flashback with Thomas Wayne wearing the outfit, stopping some criminals, but no mention of Lew Moxon is made and young Bruce Wayne wasn't around to witness the event. Batman: Face the Face by James Robinson had Batman "seeing" his father in his Bat-Man costume as part of a hallucination. It's a brief scene from what I recall but it does seem to confirm that at some point, Thomas Wayne wore that outfit. I also remember hearing that Lew Moxon had been "updated" maybe 15-20 years back but I don't know the details there. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 11:26:04 GMT -5
Thanks for that.
A few years ago, on social media, there was some bickering about the canonical status of "The Untold Legend of the Batman" (prior to Crisis). Some were saying that the story was never meant to be canonical, others claimed that it was. One person stated that nowhere was it ever reported as being anything other than canon. (I know Crisis would have made the debate academic, but Toxic Social Media can never resist an argument).
I first read the tale in the late 80s in a UK reprint title, 2-3 years after Crisis on Infinite Earths, so it wasn't really on my radar as a debate.
From what I have read, I've seen nothing that stated or implied it was meant to be an apocryphal tale. I guess the term back then was "imaginary story", but I don't see anything that states it was an "imaginary story".
I did enjoy reading the tale, particularly the finale. Also liked the relationship Bats had with that mechanic (whose name escapes me for a moment) that was forever fixing up the Batmobile.
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Post by zaku on Nov 2, 2019 11:56:24 GMT -5
Thanks for that. A few years ago, on social media, there was some bickering about the canonical status of "The Untold Legend of the Batman" (prior to Crisis). Some were saying that the story was never meant to be canonical, others claimed that it was. One person stated that nowhere was it ever reported as being anything other than canon. (I know Crisis would have made the debate academic, but Toxic Social Media can never resist an argument). Uh, Why? It wasn't just a big recap of the Earth-1' Batman history? |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 2, 2019 12:09:59 GMT -5
For me alone is the Moench and "Batman Year One" and "The Untold Legend of the Batman" ... I read these a thousand times and I really enjoy it immensely. That one skipped my mind... Good call! It was one of my favourite Batman stories, not so much because of the plot itself but in the way it presented a unified and coherent overview of the Bat-universe. It made me want to read more Batman stories. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 2, 2019 12:13:35 GMT -5
I did like the Don Newton drawn stories by Doug Moench (and liked Moench's Aztec Ace a lot a little later), and 'Untold Legend Of' mini-series was also good at the time, but I would probably think of O'Neil/Adams/Giordano and then Englehart/Rogers before that as second or third golden ages, or perhaps more accurately, golden afternoons. Only set at night... well there goes that analogy. I did try the Jim Aparo drawn Outsiders but didn't stick with it past the first few. A very mixed bag of characters.
As we are in 'there is no canon' times now I just sidestep what a group of people in a New York office with long-distance phone bills to other people spread around North America were really planning before that. As long as we can keep Ace The Bat-hound I'm good (he's good at undermining the whole Dark Knight exaggeration too without major damage like Bat Mite would cause). Arf!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 12:17:25 GMT -5
For me alone is the Moench and "Batman Year One" and "The Untold Legend of the Batman" ... I read these a thousand times and I really enjoy it immensely. That one skipped my mind... Good call! It was one of my favourite Batman stories, not so much because of the plot itself but in the way it presented a unified and coherent overview of the Bat-universe. It made me want to read more Batman stories. When I do travel ... by air both BYO and TULOTB ... books travels with me on my carry on all the time! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 12:24:01 GMT -5
Thanks for that. A few years ago, on social media, there was some bickering about the canonical status of "The Untold Legend of the Batman" (prior to Crisis). Some were saying that the story was never meant to be canonical, others claimed that it was. One person stated that nowhere was it ever reported as being anything other than canon. (I know Crisis would have made the debate academic, but Toxic Social Media can never resist an argument). Uh, Why? It wasn't just a big recap of the Earth-1' Batman history? The answer to that is simple: social media is filled with trolls and troublemakers. They are akin to the cab passengers who just want to pick a fight or vomit everywhere for the sake of it. As Alfred once said, "Some men just want to watch the world burn..." |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 12:40:46 GMT -5
It certainly felt like a "new" wave of Bat Mania started in the 80s. I remember the Bat Mania in the 60s. The difference this time it was sustained for a longer period of time. It lead to Batman overtaking Superman as the #1 hero at DC. And staying there since that time. As with any decade there were some really good stories and some duds. Another difference from the 60s was the comics got mainstream attention with Miller's take on Batman. And the movies and animated series kept Batman in the mainstream well into the 90s.
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