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Post by chadwilliam on Jan 11, 2020 2:03:19 GMT -5
I don't think a lot of the characters within their respective companies should even be sharing a universe. Jonah Hex and Ambush Bug? The Punisher and Trull the Inhuman? Pa Kent and Lobo?
I suppose Marvel works better as a shared universe than DC because of the efforts of Stan Lee to have everybody intermingle so early on (yes, The Human Torch and Sub-Mariner were fighting with each other almost from the start, but Lee saw to it that you couldn't forget that Spider-Man and The Hulk and The FF, etc shared a home), but I kind of like those early Batman tales where Dick Grayson could get an autograph from "Superman's creator Jerry Siegel" or Superman could marvel at Mr. Mxyztplk's ability to fly and remark "I thought I was the only man who could fly" and leave it at that without having to add "...aside from Green Lantern, Hawkman, The Spectre, Dr. Fate...".
In my mind, DC is a shared universe only in such titles as All-Star Comics, Justice League, Brave and the Bold, DC Comics Presents, but (for the most part) a universe of one in, say, Superman or Batman.
Still, I do respect the fact that when DC threw The Flash away with Crisis, Marvel picked him up, brushed him off, and rechristened him as Buried Alien as a tribute.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2020 8:10:31 GMT -5
I don't think a lot of the characters within their respective companies should even be sharing a universe. Jonah Hex and Ambush Bug? The Punisher and Trull the Inhuman? Pa Kent and Lobo? I suppose Marvel works better as a shared universe than DC because of the efforts of Stan Lee to have everybody intermingle so early on (yes, The Human Torch and Sub-Mariner were fighting with each other almost from the start, but Lee saw to it that you couldn't forget that Spider-Man and The Hulk and The FF, etc shared a home), but I kind of like those early Batman tales where Dick Grayson could get an autograph from "Superman's creator Jerry Siegel" or Superman could marvel at Mr. Mxyztplk's ability to fly and remark "I thought I was the only man who could fly" and leave it at that without having to add "...aside from Green Lantern, Hawkman, The Spectre, Dr. Fate...". In my mind, DC is a shared universe only in such titles as All-Star Comics, Justice League, Brave and the Bold, DC Comics Presents, but (for the most part) a universe of one in, say, Superman or Batman.
Still, I do respect the fact that when DC threw The Flash away with Crisis, Marvel picked him up, brushed him off, and rechristened him as Buried Alien as a tribute. That reminds me. I love Superman and Spider-Man, but one flaw in that story - the only flaw for me - is the awe in which civilians seem to have for Supes' flying ability. New Yorkers should see flying heroes as ordinary, what with Vision, Thor, Human Torch, Iron Man, etc. A flying hero should be routine to their eyes.
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Post by Farrar on Jan 11, 2020 11:29:35 GMT -5
...Further to the left with the Legion of Substitute heroes are Batman, Squiggy (from Laverne and Shirley) and a couple of other folks I don't recognize. The tall blond in the back is supposed to be Squiggy's partner in crime Lenny, and the guy wearing the turban is Kid Psycho, a Legion Reservist.
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Post by berkley on Jan 11, 2020 23:00:55 GMT -5
I don't think a lot of the characters within their respective companies should even be sharing a universe. Jonah Hex and Ambush Bug? The Punisher and Trull the Inhuman? Pa Kent and Lobo? I suppose Marvel works better as a shared universe than DC because of the efforts of Stan Lee to have everybody intermingle so early on (yes, The Human Torch and Sub-Mariner were fighting with each other almost from the start, but Lee saw to it that you couldn't forget that Spider-Man and The Hulk and The FF, etc shared a home), but I kind of like those early Batman tales where Dick Grayson could get an autograph from "Superman's creator Jerry Siegel" or Superman could marvel at Mr. Mxyztplk's ability to fly and remark "I thought I was the only man who could fly" and leave it at that without having to add "...aside from Green Lantern, Hawkman, The Spectre, Dr. Fate...". In my mind, DC is a shared universe only in such titles as All-Star Comics, Justice League, Brave and the Bold, DC Comics Presents, but (for the most part) a universe of one in, say, Superman or Batman.
Still, I do respect the fact that when DC threw The Flash away with Crisis, Marvel picked him up, brushed him off, and rechristened him as Buried Alien as a tribute.
Yeah, I feel that way in a lot of cases too: I think MoKF worked all the better as a series for being kept for the most part separate from the wider superhero world of the MU, same with Tomb of Dracula, and even Doctor Strange. Not to mention things like The Eternals, that I think were never meant to be part of the MU.
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Post by earl on Jan 12, 2020 7:08:13 GMT -5
"There are other worlds..." as a concept has really spread across different scifi/comic series. I'd say outside of comics, the big early one was Elric and Moorcock's Eternal Champion series. Stephen King through The Dark Tower has used it to tie most of his series/books together. This is not to mention scifi writers like Philip K Dick who used visions of 'other worlds' as pretty big story points in quite a few novels including "Man in the High Castle" and "Flow My Tears, the Policeman Said".
As for it's use in comics, if it is done well, I got no problem. The usual issue is more bloat and/or callous disregard that makes bad comics with this story line. There are modern comics that do it well and old comics that did it poor. It goes both ways.
I'd say one of the better somewhat modern comics to explore this kind of stuff was Warren Ellis and John Cassaday's Planetary series. The Batman/Planetary issue where the different versions of Batman converge on Crime Alley is one to look up.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 7:37:57 GMT -5
Despite my preference for shared Earth - and why I feel DC and Marvel should - I accept it's an impossibility in some cases. When Batman meets Judge Dredd, it has to be inter-dimensional because the Dredd history of the United States is different from the DC history. It wouldn't work, a unique set of circumstances led us to Dredd's world of law and order. So with something like that, I get it.
Not sure why the Ghostbusters and TMNT need to be in separate dimensions, though. They both encounter strange beings, why can't they live in the same New York?
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Post by MDG on Jan 12, 2020 10:41:19 GMT -5
Clark Kent and Lois Lane make semi-regular appearances in crowds of people in the MU, too. I took those as the non-hero-related Clark and Lois that live in the Marvel Universe.
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Post by chadwilliam on Jan 12, 2020 13:53:33 GMT -5
Clark Kent and Lois Lane make semi-regular appearances in crowds of people in the MU, too. I took those as the non-hero-related Clark and Lois that live in the Marvel Universe. This is something I would have liked to have seen in the crossovers - just as the two universes presumably share a lot of the same people (ie. both had a Lincoln, an Elvis, a Caesar, etc) wouldn't the Marvel Universe also have, say, a Bruce Wayne, Barry Allen, Ma and Pa Kent, and so forth? Of course, with no Batman or Flash showing up at Avengers meetings, one might presume that the lives of those characters followed a different trajectory from that in the DC Universe. It might have been interesting to see Bruce Wayne, for instance, as a genuine shiftless playboy calling in Iron Man's help to help get back his mother's jewels or something which he recklessly gambled away or whatever. Not an act - that's just how he is in this world where his parents didn't die. Also; the idea that the two universes are actually shared, but we've just never been made privy to all those Wonder Woman/Captain America or Superman/Sub-Mariner team-ups, reminds me of a Mr. Show (I think it was Mr. Show) sketch where a newscaster reports on the death of the fifth member of The Beatles Bob Lemmington (or something) who appeared everywhere the group went but was always just out of camera range when the group's photo was taken and just out of audio range when their music was recorded. But he was just as important as the others.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2020 13:57:35 GMT -5
I can get behind that scenario, Chad.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Jan 13, 2020 13:34:23 GMT -5
Clark Kent and Lois Lane make semi-regular appearances in crowds of people in the MU, too. I took those as the non-hero-related Clark and Lois that live in the Marvel Universe.
www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/kentclrk.htm
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 14:20:52 GMT -5
That proves my theory. Screw separate universes, they do share the same Earth.
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Post by MDG on Jan 13, 2020 14:42:39 GMT -5
That proves my theory. Screw separate universes, they do share the same Earth. Or that there are people with too much time on their hands
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Post by rberman on Jan 16, 2020 9:05:32 GMT -5
If we wanted to be consistent about a company's heroes all inhabiting the same universe, it's easy to find times that the JLA might have wanted to act, but didn't. But we shouldn't want to be consistent in that way, because "and then Superman saved us" is a bad story.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2020 9:37:18 GMT -5
I've had this debate over time.
I know, in theory, the likes of Superman, Flash and Green Lantern could have helped Batman any number of times when Gotham City was descending into chaos. But if they were helping him every issue, then Bats would be made redundant.
Same with Marvel. Yes, when Green Goblin has left New York in flames, and Spidey is at his worst, one might wonder just where the hell the Avengers are. But in a Spidey comic, we want to see Spidey overcome the odds. If Iron Man or Thor popped by every time Goblin was on the rampage, Spider-Man may as well not have his own book, eh?
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Post by nerdygirl905 on Jan 19, 2020 7:15:20 GMT -5
I took those as the non-hero-related Clark and Lois that live in the Marvel Universe. This is something I would have liked to have seen in the crossovers - just as the two universes presumably share a lot of the same people (ie. both had a Lincoln, an Elvis, a Caesar, etc) wouldn't the Marvel Universe also have, say, a Bruce Wayne, Barry Allen, Ma and Pa Kent, and so forth? Of course, with no Batman or Flash showing up at Avengers meetings, one might presume that the lives of those characters followed a different trajectory from that in the DC Universe. It might have been interesting to see Bruce Wayne, for instance, as a genuine shiftless playboy calling in Iron Man's help to help get back his mother's jewels or something which he recklessly gambled away or whatever. Not an act - that's just how he is in this world where his parents didn't die. Also; the idea that the two universes are actually shared, but we've just never been made privy to all those Wonder Woman/Captain America or Superman/Sub-Mariner team-ups, reminds me of a Mr. Show (I think it was Mr. Show) sketch where a newscaster reports on the death of the fifth member of The Beatles Bob Lemmington (or something) who appeared everywhere the group went but was always just out of camera range when the group's photo was taken and just out of audio range when their music was recorded. But he was just as important as the others. That kinda reminds me that there is a Anthony Stark in an old Super Friends comic. A reader pointed it out in a letter asking if he would be appearing more but the writers said if they did that Marvel would probably sue them.
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