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Post by DE Sinclair on Dec 28, 2015 11:52:48 GMT -5
Curious about the thunderbolts. Any runs or singles involving them that are worth the read? I've seen some of the early 90s covers and it all looks like muscle mass and poorly drawn crap. The Thunderbolts is pretty much all good from my perspective, up until the format change in #76. From the initial twist to the ongoing story of villains trying to go straight, it was all pretty well done. Last year I filled in the gaps (excepting the "fight club" issues that started with 76) from #0 to around #135 and plan to read the whole series through when I get the chance. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 29, 2015 11:35:33 GMT -5
Curious about the thunderbolts. Any runs or singles involving them that are worth the read? I've seen some of the early 90s covers and it all looks like muscle mass and poorly drawn crap. The Thunderbolts is pretty much all good from my perspective, up until the format change in #76. From the initial twist to the ongoing story of villains trying to go straight, it was all pretty well done. Last year I filled in the gaps (excepting the "fight club" issues that started with 76) from #0 to around #135 and plan to read the whole series through when I get the chance. The "fightclub" issues are awesome, the most interesting run on the title in my opinion! A self contained run, it is one of the rare longer format works of John Arcudi (BPRD, Hellboy, the Mask, Major Bummer...) at Marvel. It is actually not about a fight club but a derivation from the Spidey-defining wrestling moment, but from another perspective, and it quickly becomes its own thing. Highly recomended! |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Dec 29, 2015 12:09:22 GMT -5
The Thunderbolts is pretty much all good from my perspective, up until the format change in #76. From the initial twist to the ongoing story of villains trying to go straight, it was all pretty well done. Last year I filled in the gaps (excepting the "fight club" issues that started with 76) from #0 to around #135 and plan to read the whole series through when I get the chance. The "fightclub" issues are awesome, the most interesting run on the title in my opinion! A self contained run, it is one of the rare longer format works of John Arcudi (BPRD, Hellboy, the Mask, Major Bummer...) at Marvel. It is actually not about a fight club but a derivation from the Spidey-defining wrestling moment, but from another perspective, and it quickly becomes its own thing. Highly recomended! As much as I respect your opinion, I can't think of anything that would convince me to go back and fill in those issues. I had been a regular reader of Thunderbolts for 40-50 issues by that point, only to have all the characters and the entire premise of the series thrown out to be replaced by what was billed at the time as a "fightclub" format with unknown characters. They may be fine stories, but the way things were handled left a very bad taste in my mouth, and I'm not going to get over that anytime soon. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2015 12:34:26 GMT -5
The "fightclub" issues are awesome, the most interesting run on the title in my opinion! A self contained run, it is one of the rare longer format works of John Arcudi (BPRD, Hellboy, the Mask, Major Bummer...) at Marvel. It is actually not about a fight club but a derivation from the Spidey-defining wrestling moment, but from another perspective, and it quickly becomes its own thing. Highly recomended! As much as I respect your opinion, I can't think of anything that would convince me to go back and fill in those issues. I had been a regular reader of Thunderbolts for 40-50 issues by that point, only to have all the characters and the entire premise of the series thrown out to be replaced by what was billed at the time as a "fightclub" format with unknown characters. They may be fine stories, but the way things were handled left a very bad taste in my mouth, and I'm not going to get over that anytime soon. Oh so kind of like Giant Size X-Men #1 or Avengers #16...  -M |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 29, 2015 12:34:56 GMT -5
Fair enough, you somehow felt cheated. but have you read the issues? Pinkfloyd has read none, so he doesn't have the bagage you have. I'm just talking of their merits on their own. Back then, Marvel did the same with X-Force with great success (Milligan and Allred's run is widely considered a highpoint of mainstream comics). I feel Thunderbolts achieved the same there, therefore I felt it was valuable recommendation to Pinkfloyds original question, with the added value that it tells a self contained story within its 6 issues run. It's not as famous as the X-Force reboot, but it was only a 6 issue run by lesser known creators. The artwork also is very consistant throughout the run, not a quality most Thunderbolts run could IMHO claim  . And that was 12 years ago, so it's maybe time to let the grudge go and check out the atcual work?  What's not to like? :   |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Dec 29, 2015 12:46:07 GMT -5
As much as I respect your opinion, I can't think of anything that would convince me to go back and fill in those issues. I had been a regular reader of Thunderbolts for 40-50 issues by that point, only to have all the characters and the entire premise of the series thrown out to be replaced by what was billed at the time as a "fightclub" format with unknown characters. They may be fine stories, but the way things were handled left a very bad taste in my mouth, and I'm not going to get over that anytime soon. Oh so kind of like Giant Size X-Men #1 or Avengers #16... -M An interesting comparison, though not accurate. Both of those retained at least one character and the basic premise (team of mutant superheroes, team of world saving superheroes). If either of those had chucked all the characters and replaced them with professional wrestlers, that would have been a more accurate comparison. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 29, 2015 12:49:28 GMT -5
True that, even if this incarnation of the Thunderbolts was IIRC composed of a bunch of failed super hero wrestlers... It was more like a side story. It stands a little aside, like Miller's Year One does. It's indeed less about superheroics and more a human drama, but quite an exciting one.
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Dec 29, 2015 12:50:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the varying perspectives. Is the above issue pictured from this fight club run? How many issues did it last roughly? The early stuff I can't gravitate towards because I find the art bland but something a little newer might be more my taste. For me stuff between 1993 and 2000 is hard to enjoy. I've yet to find a series in that time frame that I loved.
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Post by DE Sinclair on Dec 29, 2015 12:50:14 GMT -5
Fair enough, you somehow felt cheated. but have you read the issues? Pinkfloyd has read none, so he doesn't have the bagage you have. I'm just talking of their merits on their own. Back then, Marvel did the same with X-Force with great success (Milligan and Allred's run is widely considered a highpoint of mainstream comics). I feel Thunderbolts achieved the same there, therefore I felt it was valuable recommendation to Pinkfloyds original question, with the added value that it tells a self contained story within its 6 issues run. It's not as famous as the X-Force reboot, but it was only a 6 issue run by lesser known creators. The artwork also is very consistant throughout the run, not a quality most Thunderbolts run could IMHO claim . And that was 12 years ago, so it's maybe time to let the grudge go and check out the atcual work? What's not to like? : Grudge or baggage not withstanding, the change to the premise of the series doesn't interest me at all, so no. As I said, I can't comment on the quality having not read them, but I didn't like the way it was handled or the proposed premise. If they had changed it to super-powered roller derby, I wouldn't have been interested in that either. |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Dec 29, 2015 12:53:44 GMT -5
Thanks for the varying perspectives. Is the above issue pictured from this fight club run? How many issues did it last roughly? The early stuff I can't gravitate towards because I find the art bland but something a little newer might be more my taste. For me stuff between 1993 and 2000 is hard to enjoy. I've yet to find a series in that time frame that I loved. Yes, that was from that period. It ran from issue #76 through #81 (last issue of the series), six issues. If you give it a try, please let us know what you thought of it. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 29, 2015 12:57:02 GMT -5
Thanks for the varying perspectives. Is the above issue pictured from this fight club run? How many issues did it last roughly? The early stuff I can't gravitate towards because I find the art bland but something a little newer might be more my taste. For me stuff between 1993 and 2000 is hard to enjoy. I've yet to find a series in that time frame that I loved. Huh. I think DC was as strong as it's ever been (maybe stronger!) in those years. Like they were releasing some really challenging, socially progressive material like Enigma and Seven Miles a Second! It's the only time in DC history I got the sense that there were editors who cared about comics as an art form. And their mainstream was kind of superhero-centric and boring but the quality of the superhero books (in general!) was usually pretty high compared to the '60s or '70s. But there wasn't much going on at Marvel, I agree. There was a nice little burst of creativity around 1990 with Foolkiller, Man Without Fear, Stray Toasters... And not much in the decade after did much for me. Image had the Maxx! I'm sure everyone loves the Maxx. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2015 13:01:48 GMT -5
Oh so kind of like Giant Size X-Men #1 or Avengers #16... -M An interesting comparison, though not accurate. Both of those retained at least one character and the basic premise (team of mutant superheroes, team of world saving superheroes). If either of those had chucked all the characters and replaced them with professional wrestlers, that would have been a more accurate comparison. I don't know-the premise of Avengers was a team of the company's solo heroes all in one place-Thor Iron Man, Giant Man Hulk, then Cap replacing Hulk even though he had no series-i.e. Earth's Mightiest Heroes, but at 16 it was reformed villains looking for a second chance plus Cap as a team-that's a very different premise (it's actually the premise of the T-Bolts under Hawkeye not really the Avengers as originally constituted). And original X-Men is about a school of mutants learning to use their powers and live in a world where the weird teenage heroes in school is the central defining factor for the cast, new X-Men is about a team of international heroes globetrotting to save thew world with the school premise mostly being dropped. So I see both of those as very much changing premises and changing cast in the same vein that Thunderbolts and the Milligan Allred X-Force did, or even X-Factor when the original 5 left and Peter David took over with a different cast and a different premise for the book. It's not an unprecedented thing for Marvel to do, they do it every so often and usually the new status quo turns out to be as popular if not more popular than the original. Didn't work out that way with T-Bolts, but the move itself was well within the established parameters of what Marvel does to revamp books whose sales are falling off or that feel stale. I had dropped T-bolts a year or so before the Fight Club change because for me it had begun to get stale and the premise had run its course as far as it could without having a definitive resolution and it just began to recycle itself. I wasn't interested in the change, but I felt the book needed something to shake it up because it had long before lost interest for me. -M |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 29, 2015 13:13:49 GMT -5
If they had changed it to super-powered roller derby, I wouldn't have been interested in that either. Comic-book fans demand super-powered roller derby! Or even better, super-powered junior roller derby! (It's too bad John Forte is no longer with us. He would be the perfect artist for such a project!) |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 29, 2015 13:21:33 GMT -5
Thanks for the varying perspectives. Is the above issue pictured from this fight club run? How many issues did it last roughly? The early stuff I can't gravitate towards because I find the art bland but something a little newer might be more my taste. For me stuff between 1993 and 2000 is hard to enjoy. I've yet to find a series in that time frame that I loved. That art indeed is from that run (#76-81) and it is from 2003. I'm sure you can find the back issues for nothing, so it's not a big risk. I understand DE Sinclair's position, I really do, but upon reading this, not either being a fan of wrestling and just entering this run because of my then appreciation of its writer's past works, I found myself pleasently surprised by the quality of the drama at hand, and the presentation of it was fairly innovative for a marvel comic as well. It's just a good little quirky story in the marvel universe, no need to make a big deal out of it either way |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 29, 2015 13:24:12 GMT -5
If they had changed it to super-powered roller derby, I wouldn't have been interested in that either. Comic-book fans demand super-powered roller derby! Or even better, super-powered junior roller derby! (It's too bad John Forte is no longer with us. He would be the perfect artist for such a project!) Writer and cover artist : James Stokoe Artist : Paul Pope Yes!!! |
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. And that was 12 years ago, so it's maybe time to let the grudge go and check out the atcual work? 
