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Post by berkley on Jul 7, 2020 0:45:04 GMT -5
Another What If: Marvel and DC let Jack Kirby do what he wished and that was to be an idea man. Creating series initially with maybe a years worth of his own story and artwork, then turning the titles over to others to interpret from there after he set up the basic groundwork. Can you imagine if money were no object and they went for the best options given the time? Steranko on Mister Miracle John Buscema on Demon or New Gods or Kamandi Neal Adams on New Gods or Kamandi Neal Adams on Devil Dinosaur Gene Colan on Demon or Kamandi Curt Swan on Demon or Kamandi Jim Aparo on Machine Man or Kamandi or Forever People Neal Adams on Eternals Joe Kubert on Demon or Kamandi or Devil Dinosaur Herb Trimpe on Devil Dinosaur or Machine Man or Kamandi Sal Buscema on Kamandi or Forever People or Jimmy Olsen Steve Englehart on Forever People Steve Gerber on Forever People or Devil Dinosaur Doug Moench on Demon or Machine Man or Devil Dinosaur Mike Grell on Machine Man or Devil Dinosaur or Mister Miracle Further along down the line: George Perez on New Gods or Eternals or Machine Man John Byrne on Devil Dinosaur or Mister Miracle Roger Stern on New Gods or Eternals John Romita Jr on New Gods or Machine Man The Kubert Bro's on Devil Dinosaur or Machine Man or Forever People Mark Schultz on Devil Dinosaur Keith Giffen on Mister Miracle or Forever People or Machine Man Dave Stevens on Mister Miracle or Kamandi Ron Frenz on Machine Man or Jimmy Olsen and so forth and so on...
It's interesting to speculate about this: as we know, what actually happened is that Kirby kept writing and drawing the series himself until they were cancelled. From reading those series it seems clear to me that the ideas and the characters, setting, and scenario he created to embody them came to mean something special to him as a personal creation. If so, the crucial question seems to be, at what point did his attitude change? Or rather - since it was more likely a gradual process - how long did it take before his feelings had changed so that he preferred writing the whole Fourth World epic himself?
It's quite possible that if he had just given each book a start with the first few issues, he would have been happy to hand them off to other creators. Maybe he would have liked what they did, maybe not, but possible he'd have been too busy with his role as overseer and/or continuing to come up with new ideas to micro-manage any of them.
Myself, based on what I've seen of other writers handling these characters, I don't think the results would have been of a very high standard (though of course if things had turned out this way, I wouldn't have Kirby's books to compare them with), so I'm pretty sceptical about what the results might have been.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 8:54:48 GMT -5
What if there had never been a CCA?
What if fans and publishers allowed mainstream superheroes to permanently change and age?
What if Walt Simonson did a book where the Hulk was stranded on Apokolips?
What if Roy Thomas had a decade-long run on Conan, with art by Barry Windsor-Smith and John Bus..., oh wait a minute, we got that one, didn't we? In yo' face, comic book fans in alternate universes where you can only dream of such wonders!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 10:29:52 GMT -5
What if Walt Simonson did a book where the Hulk was stranded an Apokolips? Nice!  |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 7, 2020 10:37:20 GMT -5
What if Philippe Druillet had gone on to adapt all of the Elric stories, instead of doing just a few plates?
It would probably have looked a lot like Yragaël... and I believe it would have caused a major tremor in fantasy art; one equal to that caused by Barry Smith's work on Conan.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 7, 2020 12:19:32 GMT -5
What if Jason Todd hadn't been voted to die and stayed on longer as Robin? That way DC wouldn't have resurrected him as an angsty, edgelord with a persecution complex about a decision he himself made but instead wants to blame everyone else.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 13:21:57 GMT -5
What if there had never been a CCA? What if fans and publishers allowed mainstream superheroes to permanently change and age? What if Walt Simonson did a book where the Hulk was stranded an Apokolips? What if Roy Thomas had a decade-long run on Conan, with art by Barry Windsor-Smith and John Bus..., oh wait a minute, we got that one, didn't we? In yo' face, comic book fans in alternate universes where you can only dream of such wonders! What if Marvel had persuaded Frazetta to return to comics to launch the Conan comic? -M |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 7, 2020 13:43:11 GMT -5
What if Superman was published by Marvel. It almost happened according to Shooter.
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Post by MDG on Jul 7, 2020 14:05:35 GMT -5
What if a major publisher like Dell explicitly tried to build an adult comic market in the postwar years, as was done in Europe and Japan?
What if comic publishers had established more mature business models and equitable creator agreements in the 60s?
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 7, 2020 14:10:49 GMT -5
Following up on MDG's post, what if Arnold Drake's style had become influential at DC and spread beyond the Murray Boltinoff books? Or if he had been assigned to titles like JLA or Batman? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 14:47:57 GMT -5
What if Joe, Hoss and Adam told Ben Cartwright to bugger off. They were adult men and didn't need their Dad running their lives😜
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 7, 2020 16:19:49 GMT -5
What if Joe, Hoss and Adam told Ben Cartwright to bugger off. They were adult men and didn't need their Dad running their lives😜 Adam finally did, and never looked back. |
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Post by Rob Allen on Jul 7, 2020 16:46:29 GMT -5
I know I've mentioned this idea before. When Carmine Infantino got into management at DC, he started hiring artists as editors, breaking with the company's prior policy. He hired Joe Orlando, Joe Kubert, Dick Giordano, Mike Sekowsky and Jack Kirby.
My question: What if he'd needed one more editor? Who would have been next?
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 7, 2020 17:48:26 GMT -5
I know I've mentioned this idea before. When Carmine Infantino got into management at DC, he started hiring artists as editors, breaking with the company's prior policy. He hired Joe Orlando, Joe Kubert, Dick Giordano, Mike Sekowsky and Jack Kirby. My question: What if he'd needed one more editor? Who would have been next? Not sure because I have no idea of their capabilities as editors, and it ould depend on the genre that required an editor, but what about Nick Cardy and/or Gil Kane (who had created and helmed His Name is Savage in 1968)? The problem would be losing them as artists... |
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Post by brutalis on Jul 7, 2020 19:54:41 GMT -5
What if Joe, Hoss and Adam told Ben Cartwright to bugger off. They were adult men and didn't need their Dad running their lives😜 Of course there goes their inheritance and allowance and kicked off the Ponderosa! Get off my ranch you lazy greedy kids! Go earn your own way like I did youse bums... |
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Post by Calidore on Jul 7, 2020 21:30:01 GMT -5
What if Philippe Druillet had gone on to adapt all of the Elric stories, instead of doing just a few plates? It would probably have looked a lot like Yragaël... and I believe it would have caused a major tremor in fantasy art; one equal to that caused by Barry Smith's work on Conan. Nice thought! I'd buy them. I also think Druillet would have been perfect for Nemesis the Warlock. Had another idea for Gene Colan, too: Denny O'Neil's The Question. What if John Totleben hadn't lost most of his eyesight? What if Dave Sim hadn't lost his mind, and later Cerebus had continued to grow in quality? What if Bill DuBay hadn't (allegedly) plagiarized Harlan Ellison, and Warren wasn't sued into nonexistence and continued publishing? A bit more obscure: What if Robert Loren Fleming and Trevor von Eeden had stayed on Thriller for the duration? Could it have become the groundbreaking book they wanted it to be? |
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