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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 24, 2020 19:42:51 GMT -5
Check his teeth; if he has a set of 84, all molars, we have a winner!
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Post by beyonder1984 on Mar 25, 2020 9:19:27 GMT -5
I swear to you that I'm not a Liefeld apologist, But I don't see the similarity between Deathstroke and Deadpool. Sometimes the person with the least talent will rise above because he dares much more than a more gifted person. Other people do see the similarity. That's why so many people post questions on the net about who came first and if DP is a rip-off. Zoom out and just see the basic similarities: Slade Wilson/Wade Wilson Both hired gun anti-heroes with superficially similar masks. If you compare both based on their 2010s+, they look and act differently. That is besides the point. I mean DP was literally created as a parody of Deadpool. It's more obvious Darkseid vs Thanos. I have no horse in this race. |
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Post by Batflunkie on Mar 25, 2020 11:05:59 GMT -5
For a character to become popular, it has to have something that sets it apart from the rest. Deadpool, like it or not, has that something. I will admit that I never buy any books that star Deadpool, but I did enjoy the first movie a lot. Same, I just found Deadpool straight up annoying and bothersome to read (it's half the reason why I never bothered with comedic superhero books like Archer & Armstrong and Quantum & Woody for the longest time). But they caught some kind of lightning in the bottle for that first movie |
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 30, 2020 15:19:17 GMT -5
Liefeld drew this to honor Bosman.  |
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 30, 2020 16:34:33 GMT -5
Liefeld drew this to honor Bosman. I have to say, without an ounce of sarcasm, that is the best art he has produced and displayed publicly. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2020 19:29:22 GMT -5
^^^^
Very nice.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 2, 2020 18:59:01 GMT -5
The last few days I've been listening to Rob Liefeld's podcast. podcast.robliefeldcreations.comSo much behind the scenes info on the Heroes reborn series and the trouble and jealousy when they were hired. And He reveals that Jim Lee was very close to running Marvel. It was torpedoed by Bill Jemas. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 2, 2020 21:46:56 GMT -5
The last few days I've been listening to Rob Liefeld's podcast. podcast.robliefeldcreations.comSo much behind the scenes info on the Heroes reborn series and the trouble and jealousy when they were hired. And He reveals that Jim Lee was very close to running Marvel. It was torpedoed by Bill Jemas. Just as well, as I think it would have been disastrous. Look at DC, and Marvel was in way worse shape. Marvel's always been a hotbed of office politics (DC, too, for that matter), with everyone (well, writers & editors) angling for EIC. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Sept 3, 2020 13:24:49 GMT -5
I've enjoyed the Heroes Return aftermath to whatever the Reborn thing was, and generally most of that mini-era of Marvel, so I'm glad what happened happened. Thor by Jurgens & Romita jr. was solid, Avengers by Busiek & Perez was great... lots of other quality teams/run on other titles: just a really solid Marvel being Marvel time where the other thing seemed like Marvel trying to be Image.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 3, 2020 18:12:07 GMT -5
I've enjoyed the Heroes Return aftermath to whatever the Reborn thing was, and generally most of that mini-era of Marvel, so I'm glad what happened happened. Thor by Jurgens & Romita jr. was solid, Avengers by Busiek & Perez was great... lots of other quality teams/run on other titles: just a really solid Marvel being Marvel time where the other thing seemed like Marvel trying to be Image. Rob said in his podcast that the Captain America , IronMan and Avengers titles were selling very poorly. Around 20 thousand each and they reached out to the image guys to save those properties. It did succeed as Avengers # 1 was the highest selling Avengers title of all time. A record that stands to this day. Those podcasts were addictive as it details how the Marvel staff tried to undermine the Heroes reborn launch. Rob said that Ralph Macchio put together the team of Mark Waid and Ron Garney to prove that they didn't need Liefeld to make Cap a sales success. Well, although the run was a hit storywise, it barely made a sales bump from the 20K that it already was selling. The Captain America # 1 by Liefeld was a huge hit that made Marvel 1 million dollars. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Sept 3, 2020 19:03:04 GMT -5
I've enjoyed the Heroes Return aftermath to whatever the Reborn thing was, and generally most of that mini-era of Marvel, so I'm glad what happened happened. Thor by Jurgens & Romita jr. was solid, Avengers by Busiek & Perez was great... lots of other quality teams/run on other titles: just a really solid Marvel being Marvel time where the other thing seemed like Marvel trying to be Image. Rob said in his podcast that the Captain America , IronMan and Avengers titles were selling veery poorly. Around 20 thousand each and they reached out to the image guys to save those properties. It did succeed as Avengers # 1 was the highest selling Avengers titles of all time. A record that stands to this day. Those podcasts were addictive as it details how the Marvel staff tried to undermine the Heroes reborn launch. Rob said that Ralph Macchio put together the team of Mark Waid and Ron Garney to prove that they didn't need Liefeld to make Cap a sales success. Well, although the run was a hit storywise, it barely made a sales bump from the 20K that it already was selling. The Captain America # 1 by Liefeld was a huge hit that made Marvel 1 million dollars. I probably shouldn't have said "trying to be Image" as I don't really know what that was/is, the only Image comics I have are the six '1963' comics Alan Moore wrote. As those 'Image guys' were all at Marvel before there was an Image so maybe Image was trying to be Marvel? As for sales, starting in the early '80s there were multiple companies pushing investment cases of 100-1000 copies of certain comics, Capital, Westfield... the first time I noticed cases of 100 available to non-retailers was circa X-Men #143 and Daredevil #169, those were two hot titles and no-brainers. So anything with a popular artist or an #1 on it was what you saw promoted this way. Where you can definitely say a 1940s Captain Marvel or Donald Duck had actual millions of readers, comics from the modern era that may have sold a million may have had as few as 5% that as actual readers of the comic because of these 'investor' types. Rob Liefeld, Todd McFarlane, Jim Lee and Erik Larsen were seen as 'hot' artists and combine those names with any #1 or name property and you would have the speculators filling storage units. So, I honestly don't know this, I'm least familiar with Liefeld... are his comics still in genuine demand and sell for a high premium, and that aren't say signed or limited editions with certificates and all that stuff? I have run across New Mutants #100 and X-Force #1 listed at a premium, although they do seem to be among those items labelled 'rare' while there are like a hundred plus copies available to choose from at any time. Are Rob Liefeld comics actually selling to collectors/fans in a way Neal Adams or Dave Stevens have for decades? It's fine with me if they are. I'm sure there are people who want Amazing Spider-Man #300 in the way I wanted #200 enough to buy it twice, or who want all five editions of X-Men vol.2 #1 like I wanted #101 enough to buy it twice. If Liefeld took over a favorite character of mine and did a good job I'd be happy to support it, but people sticking away cases and cases of them unopened in pristine condition aren't going to have anyone to sell any of them to if there aren't actual readers and fans, and I think those cases being mistaken as actual readers/collectors is something that does happen a lot with some of the artists from that wholesale caselot time period. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Sept 3, 2020 20:03:53 GMT -5
I looked up actual sales of the original Youngblood Image comic series on ebay and got ten pages of results, the first 8 pages have various issues selling at $5 down to below $1, on the ninth and tenth page there are sets and CGC graded copies which got $6-$20. Of single issues that sold for above $20 there are just under a dozen all CGC graded 9.8. Looks like #2 is the more popular with two color variations and then #4. The rest in that class are Megaton 'first appearances' (a one page ad in b&w samplers. What isn't there are any #3, #0, or the 'rare' ashcan of the first issue which are listed but not actually bought for the prices asked. It looks like you can get all five issues of the original comics easily for $2 or less each, and the same for New Mutants #100 and X-Force #1 with pretty much just 9.8 CGC graded copies going beyond $10. Both were more like thirty pages of $5 or under sales per issue before you got to the few that sold for anything much, but that does show there are people buying them still.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 3, 2020 22:11:09 GMT -5
Youngblood benefited greatly from the speculator boom, but never really acquired a collector value, as dealers bought all the Image debuts in bulk and they were never scarce. New Mutants and X-Force gained value, though X-Force's sales were also recipients of speculating, as was Spider-Man #1 and X-Men #1. You could buy whole sets of the variant covers for that one for pretty much cover, for a long time.
I'd like to see Rob produce some sales figures to back up his statements, as I think his numbers are pretty low. I do know that there was a massive drop in sales between his first Cap and his next issue. Waid and Garney had increasing sales before the rug was pulled out under them and bigger sales when they returned, which built. That says to me that Rob got curiosity buys and then everyone hit the silk and screamed for Waid & Garney to return. He can say "politics" all he wants; but, he was fired off his books and Lee wasn't. That suggests the problem lay with him and his people, not necessarily the Image style of politics behind the scenes. Rob also started having issues with the other Image founders, around the same time; so, the common denominator in his problems seems to be himself. In that period, he was young and probably more than a bit full of himself and also not necessarily the most professional. Lee was a lot more mature and dependable.
I wasn't reading most of Marvel, so I skipped Heroes Reborn; but, I was reading Waid and Garney's Captain America, because of Waid and it was good, especially after Gruenwald's very up and down, but lengthy run. Liefeld killed that but I was back when they were and seeing Busiek and Perez on Avengers was like a return to the late 70s Avengers. Damn good storytelling and dynamic art, with a big cast of favorites.
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Post by coinilius on Sept 4, 2020 2:59:51 GMT -5
I’m not afraid to say that I am actually a fan of Rob Liefeld’s Captain America run - it’s not good writing by any stretch of the imagination but I found it fun and actually tracked down Fighting American as a result, since it contained some of the work that would have gone into the later issues.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 4, 2020 4:47:04 GMT -5
Youngblood benefited greatly from the speculator boom, but never really acquired a collector value, as dealers bought all the Image debuts in bulk and they were never scarce. New Mutants and X-Force gained value, though X-Force's sales were also recipients of speculating, as was Spider-Man #1 and X-Men #1. You could buy whole sets of the variant covers for that one for pretty much cover, for a long time. I'd like to see Rob produce some sales figures to back up his statements, as I think his numbers are pretty low. I do know that there was a massive drop in sales between his first Cap and his next issue. Waid and Garney had increasing sales before the rug was pulled out under them and bigger sales when they returned, which built. That says to me that Rob got curiosity buys and then everyone hit the silk and screamed for Waid & Garney to return. He can say "politics" all he wants; but, he was fired off his books and Lee wasn't. That suggests the problem lay with him and his people, not necessarily the Image style of politics behind the scenes. Rob also started having issues with the other Image founders, around the same time; so, the common denominator in his problems seems to be himself. In that period, he was young and probably more than a bit full of himself and also not necessarily the most professional. Lee was a lot more mature and dependable. I wasn't reading most of Marvel, so I skipped Heroes Reborn; but, I was reading Waid and Garney's Captain America, because of Waid and it was good, especially after Gruenwald's very up and down, but lengthy run. Liefeld killed that but I was back when they were and seeing Busiek and Perez on Avengers was like a return to the late 70s Avengers. Damn good storytelling and dynamic art, with a big cast of favorites. According to his podcast , Liefeld said that Marvel didn't fire him, they tried to restructure his contract because they were filing bankruptcy. He said that he refused to take a pay cut and lose control of the series that he was working on. Remember, Marvel under Pearlman had acquired many properties like toy companies, Card companies and even took to distributing their own books. They took on too much debt and it hurt them. The publishing division was holding its own and he claimed that the books were selling 200K after issue # 1. On the podcast he read the letter sent to him by Marvel which asked for him to restructure his contract and cited what they deemed " disappointing" numbers. Captain America before he took over was selling 20k books a month and were in danger of cancelation. Even the Waid books , which were a last ditch effort by the editors to have the top brass not sign the two Image guys , showed a mild bump in sales. For whatever reason you might want to give, Captain America # 1 sold 300K copies and made Marvel one Million dollars. Lee and Liefeld got 3 million dollars a piece for doing the relaunches. According to Liefeld, the books were big hits but couldn't save them from filing bankruptcy. As for the rest of the books, Lee agreed to take them over at a pay cut but only did so because he had his eye on running Marvel comics. Ron Pearlman met with Lee in his California offices exploring the possible move to those offices from New York. Ironically, what killed the deal for Lee was that the books that he took over from Liefeld had lackluster talent that didn't' generate the buzz and sales that the Image two did and it was used as a reason for not having him run Marvel by Jemas. The fans stopped buying the second half of Heroes reborn because it was seen as nothing special. Also I want to note that those #1's didn't have multiple variant covers like they do these days. It had only 2 covers each. Of course the speculation market was part of the sales but you could argue that any book released had the potential to be over ordered by the comic shops, but weren't at the rate those books were. |
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