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Post by berkley on Jan 26, 2022 3:10:49 GMT -5
All these posts about older TV shows, many of which, especially Westerns, I watch occasionally, remind me that many a modern comics writer (and artist) might learn something about telling a compelling story by watching a few of them. Oh, many of them are forgettable, but on the best of them, the plots are airtight, nary a line or a scene distracts, and the dialogue never wastes time telling you what you can already tell about a character from the acting. No gimmicks, no cheap emotion, no excess. Low budgets and strict deadlines brought out the best in many of these creators. These, like comics way back in the day, were proof that necessity often is the mother of invention. If only many modern comics artists and writers could learn these lessons.
Definitely a no frills approach on many of these old shows, and I imagine by necessity. But whatever the reason, they certainly had to learn how to establish character, conflict, and all the other basic ingredients of an effective narrative with minimum time, minimum lines of dialogue, and often minimum budget to work with.
It reminds me of how some fiction writers who had made their start as journalists credited their success in part to that early training: they had had to learn how to convey information in a minimum of space and word-count while still meeting the standards then required of good English (or whatever language they were writing in). So, to pick two genre writers that come to mind, people like Ian Fleming or Peter O'Donnell (Modesty Blaise) knew how to set a scene or make a character come to life in just a few well-worded sentences.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 26, 2022 22:36:36 GMT -5
All these posts about older TV shows, many of which, especially Westerns, I watch occasionally, remind me that many a modern comics writer (and artist) might learn something about telling a compelling story by watching a few of them. Oh, many of them are forgettable, but on the best of them, the plots are airtight, nary a line or a scene distracts, and the dialogue never wastes time telling you what you can already tell about a character from the acting. No gimmicks, no cheap emotion, no excess. Low budgets and strict deadlines brought out the best in many of these creators. These, like comics way back in the day, were proof that necessity often is the mother of invention. If only many modern comics artists and writers could learn these lessons.
Definitely a no frills approach on many of these old shows, and I imagine by necessity. But whatever the reason, they certainly had to learn how to establish character, conflict, and all the other basic ingredients of an effective narrative with minimum time, minimum lines of dialogue, and often minimum budget to work with.
It reminds me of how some fiction writers who had made their start as journalists credited their success in part to that early training: they had had to learn how to convey information in a minimum of space and word-count while still meeting the standards then required of good English (or whatever language they were writing in). So, to pick two genre writers that come to mind, people like Ian Fleming or Peter O'Donnell (Modesty Blaise) knew how to set a scene or make a character come to life in just a few well-worded sentences.
Fleming's journalism background certainly helped in setting the exotic locales and the mood of Bond's missions. Robert Benson, in his James Bond Bedside Companion, talked about the "Fleming Sweep," which is what he termed his descriptive passages about the locale and also things like what he was wearing and eating, at dinner. They gave you some definite visuals to imagine the story. O'Donnell was better at character traits, in my opinion and had more realistic characters. It's a shame that his work has never been adapted well, as a good Modesty Blaise script could launch a serious, yet fun, franchise. That last attempt, My Name Is Modesty, was a bit more serious and better written, but the actress desperately needed a sandwich (she looked to be about 30+ lbs underweight) and you just can't do Modesty without Willie Garvin. For that matter, Denny O'Neil also came from a journalism background, which certainly aided his comic book scripts.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2022 16:55:44 GMT -5
T.J. Hooker debuted on ABC 40 years ago today!
I watched this for the first time in 2002, when Channel 5 aired it in full. I did enjoy the moralistic aspects of the show, Shatner was always entertaining as Hooker, and it was a fast-paced cop series which was rarely boring. Wasn’t afraid to be a tad unrealistic, too, Sgt. Hooker hung from a plane in one episode, jumped on a bus in another, etc.
I do own the first season on DVD, I’m not sure if further seasons were released.
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Post by Calidore on Mar 13, 2022 17:27:31 GMT -5
T.J. Hooker debuted on ABC 40 years ago today!
Thanks for that.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 13, 2022 18:47:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2022 18:52:43 GMT -5
Hadn’t seen that before!
I like how they called him “Sarge” in that sketch. Never understood why the constables kept calling him by his surname. Who calls a superior officer by his last name?
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 13, 2022 21:24:33 GMT -5
Hadn’t seen that before! I like how they called him “Sarge” in that sketch. Never understood why the constables kept calling him by his surname. Who calls a superior officer by his last name? Hollywood cops. Gotta keep the name of the show in constant use, so that channel surfers know what it is. I didn't watch the show regularly; but, I can't recall Shatner ever wearing the uniform hat (for fear of messing up his toupee, I would assume).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 5:22:55 GMT -5
I saw the show In its entirety when Channel 5 aired it. No hats at all.
I was also confused by LCPD. Their uniforms looked like LAPD, they were clearly on the west coast. LASD are sheriffs with brown uniforms. Couldn’t find an LCPD with that uniform when I Googled years ago.
Most of the cop shows I grew up with used real forces, whether it be NYPD, California Highway Patrol, SFPD, etc. And real federal agencies. You might occasionally get a fictional agency, of course. But I was confused by T.J. HOOKER: was it a case of the LAPD not approving the show? Are shows required to seek approval? Or just a case of a show wanting to keep it vague?
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Post by Rob Allen on Mar 17, 2022 14:41:55 GMT -5
Wikipedia says that Lake City PD is fictional. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._J._HookerNot sure why they went that way. Maybe just so they didn't have to get approval from anybody.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 17, 2022 21:29:08 GMT -5
I saw the show In its entirety when Channel 5 aired it. No hats at all. I was also confused by LCPD. Their uniforms looked like LAPD, they were clearly on the west coast. LASD are sheriffs with brown uniforms. Couldn’t find an LCPD with that uniform when I Googled years ago. Most of the cop shows I grew up with used real forces, whether it be NYPD, California Highway Patrol, SFPD, etc. And real federal agencies. You might occasionally get a fictional agency, of course. But I was confused by T.J. HOOKER: was it a case of the LAPD not approving the show? Are shows required to seek approval? Or just a case of a show wanting to keep it vague? If you are going to call it the LAPD, then, yeah, you are going to need approval to have the uniforms and insignia and they would probably want input on the script. Back in the 60s and early 70s, Jack Webb's Mark VII LTD productions did a bunch of police and fire emergency shows: Adam-12 (about a police patrol unit), Emergency (fire department paramedics, Dragnet (a continuation of Webb's radio show, with himself as Sgt Joe Friday). He went out of his way to work with the actual agencies for authenticity and to demonstrate respect for the work they did, which is part of why he got an unfair label as being conservative, during turbulent times. There were shows where Friday addressed more Right Wing ideas, from a constitutional viewpoint, while also showing a traditional respect for law and order. US police departments are run a bit differently than the UK. We don't really have a national police force; each state, county and municipality creates its own law enforcement. The Federal Bureau of Investigation has jurisdictional limits on it, as do other Federal law enforcement agencies. Each state has its own laws (and counties and municipalities) and regulations governing the conduct of the police department , their jurisdiction (and limits) and the administration of them. In the modern age, they are well connected for sharing information; but, there are jurisdictional squabbles and some police departments have higher standards than others. Police shows on American tv really reflect the time period. Up through the 60s, they were heroic figures, protecting the citizens against despicable criminals. However, with police appearing on television news, acting like storm troopers in support of segregation, attacking peaceful political protests, carrying our racially motivated arrests and violence, attacking striking workers, and similar scandals, the news media began to take a more nuanced look at police and Hollywood joined in. In the 70s, you started seeing tv shows and movies that showed things like racist cops, corrupt police departments, politically motivated bias and the like. Movies like Serpico, based on a true store of uncovering massive corruption in the NYPD, led to tv series that copied that. They started to look at the dirtier worlds of drug dealing and prostitution (sometimes for social consciousness, sometimes for a bit of T&A, like Police Woman, in some episodes). The 80s saw a bit of a swing back towards the idea of "law & order", but, there were still shows with more nuanced portrayals (stuff like Hill Street Blues), while others just wanted action and car chases (Stephen J Cannell shows). When I was a kid, in the 70s, I devoured stuff like Adam-12, Emergency, Dragnet, The Mod Squad. As I got a little older, I came to appreciate the detective shows, like McCloud, Macmillan & Wife and, especially Columbo. I also enjoyed Hec Ramsey, a sort of later era Western shows, with early criminological techniques, starring Richard Boone (of Have Gun, Will Travel fame). In the mid-70s, it was The Rookies, SWAT, Police Woman, Police Story, Starsky & Hutch and stuff like Toma and Baretta. We couldn't tune in CBS, so not much of things like Barnaby Jones or Cannon and I was a little young for Mannix or Bannicek (or was watching something else). By the 80s, we had Hill Street Blues, Miami Vice, CHiPs (started in the mid-late 70s, though) and detective shows like Remington Steele, Moonlighting and Magnum PI. It wasn't until the 90s that I started to watch some of the British police and detective material, on PBS' Mystery and Masterpiece Theater, with Prime Suspect, Tough of Frost, Inspector Morse, Sherlock Holmes, Poirot, Lovejoy, Cracker, the PD James Mysteries, etc. They were a nice change from the Hollywood police and detective shows, often with better scripts and acting. Fewer stupid car chases, too.
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Post by berkley on Mar 17, 2022 23:45:06 GMT -5
Speaking of Have Gun Will Travel, I watched the first few episodes of that one last month and it holds up really well, to my mind, at least: very entertaining, short, efficiently-told stories, and Boone is great as the lead character, Paladin. I haven't seen it since I was a very small kid so I don't remember any of the individual stories so far but it must have made a deep impression on me seeing it at such a young age. I think Boone's performance might have been an important contributing factor to my early idea of what a hero (in the modern sense) is supposed to be like - in contrast to the more cocky, smug sort of character that became popular later on, or even the scowling Clint Eastwood type - though I can enjoy both those sorts of character too, when they're done well or I like the style of the actor (as I do Clint's). Paladin is different to those in that he's only the tough guy when he needs to be - when he's on the job, so to speak, and not always even then. Otherwise, he's relaxed, not afraid to laugh or smile, polite and respectful, civilised, etc, etc. Boone pulls it off really well, and is very convincing both as the tough guy and as the polished gentleman.
At the same time last month I also watched the first few episodes of Maverick, a show I had never seen before so there was no direct nostalgia involved or no re-awakening of long-buried impressions. But I still enjoyed it very much. I always liked Garner and he's pretty much the same James Garner in this show as he was years later in Rockford, though obviously much younger.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2022 8:33:00 GMT -5
US police departments are run a bit differently than the UK. We don't really have a national police force; each state, county and municipality creates its own law enforcement. The Federal Bureau of Investigation has jurisdictional limits on it, as do other Federal law enforcement agencies. Each state has its own laws (and counties and municipalities) and regulations governing the conduct of the police department , their jurisdiction (and limits) and the administration of them. In the modern age, they are well connected for sharing information; but, there are jurisdictional squabbles and some police departments have higher standards than others. I once had an American ask me why there was a need for the City of London Police and the Metropolitan Police. Easily explainable, but I understand the question. As a kid, while watching crime dramas, I wasn’t too sure about U.S. terminology and the like. Why were those cops (who I now know are state troopers) wearing wide-brimmed hats while the cop besides them had a different uniform - and a bus driver style cap? State troopers, sheriffs, city cops, federal agents, etc. Very confusing as a kid, but I understood it as an adult. There is one thing that confuses me, though: sheriffs are elected (they cover counties, right?) while city police chiefs and state police colonels are, if I have it right, appointed. Why is that out of sheriffs, state troopers and police chiefs, that only sheriffs are elected? And I really don’t understand, in city forces, what the difference is between a Chief of Police and Commissioner (I did Google once)? Obviously, Commissioner is higher, but Chief of Police would imply to me top guy (or woman) running the force. Just curious as to the difference between the two. And I’d really like to know why the ATF and DEA need to exist, could not the FBI handle alcohol, tobacco, firearms and drugs?
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 18, 2022 8:38:06 GMT -5
Yes, berkley , Boone captured perfectly the meaaning of the knight errant, the sophisticated getleman who is also a warrior with a conscience. The show is almost always top-notch. For a bit of a preview of the Paladin character, watch the movie "The Tall T" (1955) in which he plays a nasty villain far smarter than any of his confederates. When he comes up against his near doppelganger (well, not in looks) in Randolph Scott, an equally tough customer, they engage not just in physical, but intellectual, even philosophical combat. One of the best Budd Boetticher/ Scott Westerns. PS: "Maverick" is almost always a good ride, too. Garner is so easy to watch, isn't he? He would ahve been a star in any era. Look for him in the Western spoof "Support Your Local Sheriff," in which he basically plays Brett Maverick again. It's a hoot... and filled with great character actors in supporting parts.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 18, 2022 9:42:32 GMT -5
Yes, berkley , Boone captured perfectly the meaaning of the knight errant, the sophisticated getleman who is also a warrior with a conscience. The show is almost always top-notch. For a bit of a preview of the Paladin character, watch the movie "The Tall T" (1955) in which he plays a nasty villain far smarter than any of his confederates. When he comes up against his near doppelganger (well, not in looks) in Randolph Scott, an equally tough customer, they engage not just in physical, but intellectual, even philosophical combat. One of the best Budd Boetticher/ Scott Westerns. PS: "Maverick" is almost always a good ride, too. Garner is so easy to watch, isn't he? He would ahve been a star in any era. Look for him in the Western spoof "Support Your Local Sheriff," in which he basically plays Brett Maverick again. It's a hoot... and filled with great character actors in supporting parts. I'm a huge fan of James Garner. The Rockford Files holds up very well for a show of its time. He always came across like the fun uncle who would let you in on the joke and let you get into just a little bit, but not too much trouble.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Mar 18, 2022 10:03:41 GMT -5
I'm a huge fan of James Garner. The Rockford Files holds up very well for a show of its time. He always came across like the fun uncle who would let you in on the joke and let you get into just a little bit, but not too much trouble. This is true. That and Columbo are really stand-out detective shows of that era.
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