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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 26, 2021 20:02:53 GMT -5
I don't know; it still comes across more to me as a Hong Kong greatest hits, rather than a Shang Chi story. It's what I expected (maybe not so blatant with the swipes/homages), when this was originally announced in development, years ago. I'm sure it will do huge in Asia and be the usual Marvel hit here. Not really what I wanted in a Shang Chi film; but, I resigned myself pretty early on that I wasn't likely to see the Moench/Gulacy classics adapted. Nice to see Michelle Yeoh, which I assume means he no longer has a blond American mother (always wondered if that was supposed to be inspired by Linda Lee or just blond being the default for attractive woman, in comics).
It looks entertaining enough, for an HK action film, though the clips make me wonder about practical stunts vs CGI. Someone's got to keep the Jackie Chan Stunt Team working.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Jun 27, 2021 6:55:12 GMT -5
The creators probably weren't going to adapt the original premise of Shang Chi working with British Intelligence to take down his father i.e. The West taking out big bad China. That just wasn't going to fly in today's age.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 27, 2021 19:03:38 GMT -5
The creators probably weren't going to adapt the original premise of Shang Chi working with British Intelligence to take down his father i.e. The West taking out big bad China. That just wasn't going to fly in today's age. I don't know about that. That premise could easily appeal to a modern audience, provided the characters are well written and played. Classic Bond holds up, classic Bruce Lee holds up; you mix the two and you have Master of Kung Fu. Now, you modernize the Fu Manchu character (cut out Fu as a character, period or remove the purely racist elements) and the same with Shang Chi (kind of hard to sell the idea that some is raised in that much isolation, in the modern world) and the basic plots and storylines of the Moench/Gulacy run fit in pretty well. Heck, you could even throw in the twist that the evil father is a Westerner and the mother is Chinese and you can even make subtle critiques of the exploitation of China by the West, in the Colonial years (a take that would likely appeal to an Asian audience). You make the villain less of a caricature and give him a believable mindset and the audience will go along, even if the story gets fantastic, so long as there is a logic to things and the audience is entertained and identifies with the characters. But, no, Hollywood isn't going to adapt the classic work, because Marvel has spent to many years since trying to turn Shang-Chi into whatever was en vogue in Martial Arts films or Hong Kong action cinema. That is part of why the character has not been a major figure at Marvel, since Moench, because everyone since just sees him as a martial arts character while Doug saw him as a spiritual character, in a pulp world, who just happened to be extensively trained in martial arts. Marvel pitched this as aping Hong Kong from the moment it started, when it was announced that Yeun Woo Ping had been attached to direct, since he was hot, thanks to Quentin Tarantino promoting Iron Monkey, and the popularity of the films he choreographed that had become big rentals in video stores, like Tai Chi Master and Wing Chun. They didn't want Bruce Lee, they wanted Jet Li, which just shows how much time has passed since Shang Chi was a popular character, headlining his own series. Marvel Studios sees this as a character that can be sold well to Asian audiences, who have become more important than American audiences, which is fair enough. No one says America should have a monopoly on cinema. I hope it does well enough that maybe they can bring in some of those classic elements, in future films. I'll watch this, eventually, just as I did the others that didn't wow me with their trailers; just not in a theater. Still, I have watched enough Hong Kong cinema to tick off the stuff they have swiped in that trailer, from 36th Chamber of Shaolin, to Police Story, to John Woo and Tsui Hark to wonder if anyone in Hollywood can establish their own style anymore or are they just mimicking their influences. A lot like modern superhero comics, really.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2021 0:45:37 GMT -5
Hmm. I wonder if the cage match between the Abomination and Wong we glimpsed in the new trailer is one of those scenes that never actually makes it into the final cut of the movie that often pepper Marvel trailers.
-M
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Jun 28, 2021 23:50:13 GMT -5
Hmm. I wonder if the cage match between the Abomination and Wong we glimpsed in the new trailer is one of those scenes that never actually makes it into the final cut of the movie that often pepper Marvel trailers. -M That would be a pretty nutty bait and switch, which I think would rub people the wrong way. A scene like that looks like it can have some relevance to the plot. If it was something like what we saw in Avengers Infinity War with the Hulk on Wakanda along with the other avengers charging into battle, it would be fine. But with something like Abomination who hasn't been seen in 13 years taking on a disciple from Kamar-Taj, it immediately raises questions.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Jun 30, 2021 1:20:36 GMT -5
The creators probably weren't going to adapt the original premise of Shang Chi working with British Intelligence to take down his father i.e. The West taking out big bad China. That just wasn't going to fly in today's age. I don't know about that. That premise could easily appeal to a modern audience, provided the characters are well written and played. Classic Bond holds up, classic Bruce Lee holds up; you mix the two and you have Master of Kung Fu. Now, you modernize the Fu Manchu character (cut out Fu as a character, period or remove the purely racist elements) and the same with Shang Chi (kind of hard to sell the idea that some is raised in that much isolation, in the modern world) and the basic plots and storylines of the Moench/Gulacy run fit in pretty well. Heck, you could even throw in the twist that the evil father is a Westerner and the mother is Chinese and you can even make subtle critiques of the exploitation of China by the West, in the Colonial years (a take that would likely appeal to an Asian audience). You make the villain less of a caricature and give him a believable mindset and the audience will go along, even if the story gets fantastic, so long as there is a logic to things and the audience is entertained and identifies with the characters. But, no, Hollywood isn't going to adapt the classic work, because Marvel has spent to many years since trying to turn Shang-Chi into whatever was en vogue in Martial Arts films or Hong Kong action cinema. That is part of why the character has not been a major figure at Marvel, since Moench, because everyone since just sees him as a martial arts character while Doug saw him as a spiritual character, in a pulp world, who just happened to be extensively trained in martial arts. Marvel pitched this as aping Hong Kong from the moment it started, when it was announced that Yeun Woo Ping had been attached to direct, since he was hot, thanks to Quentin Tarantino promoting Iron Monkey, and the popularity of the films he choreographed that had become big rentals in video stores, like Tai Chi Master and Wing Chun. They didn't want Bruce Lee, they wanted Jet Li, which just shows how much time has passed since Shang Chi was a popular character, headlining his own series. Marvel Studios sees this as a character that can be sold well to Asian audiences, who have become more important than American audiences, which is fair enough. No one says America should have a monopoly on cinema. I hope it does well enough that maybe they can bring in some of those classic elements, in future films. I'll watch this, eventually, just as I did the others that didn't wow me with their trailers; just not in a theater. Still, I have watched enough Hong Kong cinema to tick off the stuff they have swiped in that trailer, from 36th Chamber of Shaolin, to Police Story, to John Woo and Tsui Hark to wonder if anyone in Hollywood can establish their own style anymore or are they just mimicking their influences. A lot like modern superhero comics, really. But first impressions are important. Even if the original premise was adapted more accurately, but there is a bait/switch in the plot where Shang Chi's father isn't a stereotypical Chinese boogeyman, and is a Westerner instead it still would be a dice roll with Chinese audiences. Especially if the idea of a cast out Chinese son joins a western power to take out China in the trailers. China is obviously a huge part of Marvel's movie revenue, and this is really the only Chinese superhero they have with some history in which they can spotlight for a movie. A lot of people now whether they are Chinese citizens are not, aren't familiar with Shang Chi who has been a D list character for Marvel since the 1970s, so Marvel has enough leeway to adapt the character for the times, and not risk alienating maybe the most important demographic for their movie. And yeah, it will take inspiration from Hong Kong cinema. Don't see why that's bad. It's not like every other MCU film, hell Marvel in general hasn't had their inspiration from other stories. We shall see. I'll be interested to hear what Engelhart, Moench, and Starlin think of the movie if they do indeed see it.
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