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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 18, 2022 22:50:02 GMT -5
maybe.... It was kinda small to see. wishful thinking, perhaps... I want Young Avengers! At least yours has the potential to happen. I'm just over here sitting in a corner with dreams of a New Warriors movie or a Speedball show I'd be way more excited about a old School New Warriors movie that this one  |
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Post by BigPapaJoe on May 4, 2022 3:04:18 GMT -5
General thoughts after watching: Just saw this today, and I was pretty impressed. Clearly Sam Raimi had Disney's blessing, because he completely went to town on his own terms, and blew the doors off in the process. Might be the darkest MCU film to date, so might want to leave the little ones at home if you're thinking about having them tag along. Anyway, everything felt pretty smooth in how it was directed. I was pretty engaged with the narrative overall from start to finish, and didn't feel there was a point where everything came to a grinding halt. I'm actually going to see it again in a few hours with some other folks, and I'm already excited for that. Enjoy yourselves. Now I want to binge Doctor Strange comics. BTW, there are two post credit scenes. |
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Post by Dizzy D on May 5, 2022 3:01:19 GMT -5
I went yesterday and I'm still digesting my thoughts. For better or worse, it's a very Sam Raimi movie, so it dives into a very pulpy/horror feeling which in my opinion works well with Dr. Strange. It has some disturbing imagery so maybe watch it first before deciding to take the kids.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 5, 2022 12:15:39 GMT -5
I may be alone in this; but, I think they missed the boat by not titling this Doctor Strange 2: Vishanti Boogaloo!
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Post by The Captain on May 6, 2022 21:24:44 GMT -5
Saw this today with my wife and both daughters, along with one of my younger daughter's friends. So much better than the first Dr. Strange film, which was the same old formulaic MCU origin story we saw with the other heroes introduced. This movie delved into what came before to great success, touching on the first one to Endgame to Wandavision to No Way Home, aided by a really good script and the direction of Sam Raimi, who probably pushed Disney/Marvel to the very edge of their comfort level. This is definitely the darkest the MCU has gone to date, but it made sense for this film and the story they were telling, and much like The Eternals, it's an MCU movie that for the most part doesn't look or feel anything like a MCU movie. As Dizzy D mentions, this is not for the typical MCU audience, especially elementary school-age children; there were three of them in front of us in the theater with their parents, and I could tell about half-way through that the parents were definitely questioning their decision. Definitely going to see it again, possibly on Sunday, just so I can put some more attention onto the details. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on May 7, 2022 20:02:28 GMT -5
Just got back. Ho-Lee Crap! Soooo good!
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 7, 2022 23:54:02 GMT -5
Am I the only one who didn't love this film? Doctor Strange was great. Wanda was AMAZING. And Rami's directing was excellent. But the writing was crap. What a waste of a multiverse. So many opportunities squandered in service of a plot that never really made any sense, and it really seems like this film was the victim of serious indecision on Marvel's part. No Way Home seemed to set up this film, and yet what happened here was totally unrelated, and whereas this SHOULD have been an opportunity to merge continuities and introduce new franchises, the few heroes we got in Universe 828 were pretty damn disappointing, especially John Krazinski as Reed Richards. Heck, when they flash back to the death of Thanos, that sad-sack group of heroes is still all that's there. Marvel could have taken us to literally ANY alternate reality, and that's the alternate superhero line-up we were given.
It really feels like Marvel was totally unsure of where to go on this one -- what projects to tease and therefore commit to. The only thing they seemed 100% certain of was America Chavez and, frankly, I wasn't so into her. Child characters are often a hard sell, especially in the company of outstanding actors with their own internal story arcs.
Oh, and where did Stephen's ever go? Are you happy? Yes, finally I am for some reason because the film is over so my conflict must somehow be resolved...except I'm not. I've got a third eye now. Oh wait, I'm happy with the third eye. That's not an internal story arc. Wanda's journey was far more interesting and well considered. This should have been her film.
A few more nit-picks:
1. The MCU and the Marvel comic book universe are BOTH 616??
2. Such minor changes across universes. Sure, red means go in one universe, but each still somehow had a Doctor Strange, nevermind an Earth that hasnt been destroyed, formed pretty much the same way each time, and has humans as the dominant species on the planet. Such lack of imagination! Sure, one reality is paint, but that's pretty much as far as they were willing to take it.
3. WHY does Wanda have the same two kids in every reality except 616? Who is the father? Did she make them out of magic each time but just decide not to enslave an entire town in the process? That would have been cool if they'd bothered to explain it.
4. I didn't watch much of What If? but the Dr. Strange episode was my favorite of the ones I did see. What utter crap that this film conflicts with it. That story taught us that Christine MUST die in each possible reality, and yet she isn't dead in a single one of them here.
5. So we're not going to bring Kang (from Loki) into this at all? If that series counts in the MCU (and the first episode sure shows that it does!) then the multiverse only exists because of the events of that series, and Kang's conflict is therefore central to the whole thing. If we're going to make Wandavision count, why not the other shows?
It really seems like Marvel originally intended for this to be an ambitious film and then got cold feet partway through and ended up telling a very small story across a very large concept that deserved to be used much better. I really did enjoy the characters and the directing, but not the writing, and the wasted opportunities kill me. |
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Post by codystarbuck on May 8, 2022 20:08:28 GMT -5
Well, I believe this was originally slated to lead into Spider-Man and not the other way around; but, they changed that and this went through a lot of re-writing.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 8, 2022 20:46:24 GMT -5
Well, I believe this was originally slated to lead into Spider-Man and not the other way around; but, they changed that and this went through a lot of re-writing. That would make A LOT more sense! |
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Post by spoon on May 8, 2022 22:54:24 GMT -5
Well, I believe this was originally slated to lead into Spider-Man and not the other way around; but, they changed that and this went through a lot of re-writing. Yeah, I read that originally America Chavez was going to be introduce in Spider-Man: No Way Home when that was supposed to come after Doctor Strange 2. As a teenager character, that seems like a more expected fit. If anything, I think the flip-flop hurt Doctor Strange as a character in Spider-Man, because of the cavalier way they had him mess with reality on Spidey behalf to help him with his college applications or SATs or whatever dumb it was I tried to erase from my brain. I saw Doctor Strange 2 earlier today. Really great direction. It's probably the best use of special effects of seen for the purposes of reality-warping type stuff. I agree that the directing was better than the writing for reasons I might get into later, but overall a good, memorable film. |
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Post by Randle-El on May 10, 2022 21:01:22 GMT -5
I had a day off from work so I caught it this afternoon. I thought it was fairly entertaining, but I do have some nitpicks. With this film, Marvel seems to have ditched any pretense of making movies that stand on their own. I understand this is a shared universe, and that this is a sequel that requires you to have watched the movies that came before it. But this movie also required you to have watched a TV mini-series that was only available through a subscription-based streaming channel in order to fully understand the motivation of the primary antagonist. I'm all for shared universes, but this level of interconnection feels like they are nickle-and-diming us to get the full story. My other complaint is that, with all the different movies and shows using the multiverse as a storytelling concept, Marvel doesn't seem to have a coherent vision for how the multiverse is supposed to work. All the MCU multiverse stories seem like their purpose is to warm the audience up to the idea of multiversal storytelling, but their stories don't seem to reinforce or tie into each other's multiversal concepts at all. Where is the TVA in all of Doctor Strange's shenanigans? How come America Chavez is not on their radar? Why do they make such a big deal about incursions and crossing over into different dimensions causing destruction, but Shang-Chi is able to enter Ta Lo by driving an SUV through a waterfall without consequence?
Complaints aside, I appreciated that this was Marvel's entry into the horror genre, and as a consequence had a very different vibe compared to previous films. I agree that horror and trippy CGI visuals are perfect for Doctor Strange, which they used to great effect in this movie.
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Post by bashbash99 on May 13, 2022 7:26:49 GMT -5
I enjoyed it but i definitely liked the first Doc Strange better. I preferred the more psychedelic vibe to the horror vibe of this one. I did think Olsen's performance was phenomenal. Also, kinda hope Feige knows what he's doing with this multiverse stuff because so far we have gotten very different takes on the multiverse from different marvel projects - Loki, What If, NWH, and now MoM. my biggest gripe is that Wanda's heel turn, while expected, came way too early and came on way too strong. At the end of Wandavision, we were supposed to view Wanda as a tragic figure, to have some sympathy for the losses she's suffered. But in this movie she's presented as a full-on mustache-twirling villain, quick to murder anyone who stands in her way, even folks she could've dispatched without killing. Feels like the movie needed more connective tissue to help the viewer understand why a character we were rooting for has changed so drastically so quickly. Not that mcu hasn't done this before - indeed Wanda & vision's romance happened offscreen between CW and IW, and Bruce became Prof Hulk in between IW and Endgame with little explanation. But it feels worse here since this is not an ensemble movie, and instead Wanda is one of the central characters.
My 2nd biggest gripe is that the movie doesn't do much to get us to like or want to see more of America Chavez. There are a few fun scenes in the beginning, i liked her poking fun at Strange for not speaking Spanish and how she goes for food 1st thing whenever arriving in a new universe. We could've used a few slower scenes with America like that. Generally the mcu is very good at creating characters that, even with minimal screentime, we like and want to see more of. Chavez wasn't bad or anything but i don't really care if she shows up again anytime soon, as opposed to how i would like to see more of Yelena, Kate Bishop, and the whole Shang-chi cast.
The deaths of the Illuminati were gruesome by mcu standards, but seemed in keeping with the overall tone of the film so I'll allow it. Still fun to see Reed, Prof X, a proper Blackbolt, live action Captain Carter, and a powered-up Maria Rambeau.
I think the movie would be much improved if Wanda had played coy and pretended to be Strange's ally initially. To me it would make sense that Wanda would try and gain America's sympathy and attempt to win her over to her cause, rather than trying to steal Chavez' power from the get-go. Since Wanda lost her kids and Chavez lost her parents it seems like the two would have much to bond over, yes? And this would allow for a few more slow scenes with the main trio to allow us to see more of how Wanda is changing (maybe even have whispers in her mind from the Darkhold) and get to know Chavez better.
I would have had the full heel turn come with the Illuminati. Wanda gets captured along with Strange and Chavez and the Illuminati's arrogance and refusal to accomodate her re: her kids finally pushes her over the edge, with the rest of the movie playing out the way it did in the theaters. It seemed like most of the more interesting horrific depictions of Wanda started around now anyhow - the earlier battle at Katma-Ta (or whatev) was mostly just Wanda hurling blasts of scarlet energy around. Change that battle so now its just one of Wanda's minions attacking (unknown to anyone else) as a ploy, so that wanda can save CHavez thus earning some trust. Have Wong kidnapped by the minion so that he can get hauled off to Cthon's temple and be around for the final battle.
As for Strange himself, his arc was pretty light in this one (basically "learn to let go/ you can't micromanage everything"). They found something for McAdams to do, frankly i would've been fine if she hadn't been in this as i felt like the 1st movie wrapped up Strange's arc with her fairly well. (disclosure: I hated the What If episode centered around Strange's love for Christine) |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 13, 2022 10:06:18 GMT -5
I enjoyed it but i definitely liked the first Doc Strange better. I preferred the more psychedelic vibe to the horror vibe of this one. I did think Olsen's performance was phenomenal. Also, kinda hope Feige knows what he's doing with this multiverse stuff because so far we have gotten very different takes on the multiverse from different marvel projects - Loki, What If, NWH, and now MoM. my biggest gripe is that Wanda's heel turn, while expected, came way too early and came on way too strong. At the end of Wandavision, we were supposed to view Wanda as a tragic figure, to have some sympathy for the losses she's suffered. But in this movie she's presented as a full-on mustache-twirling villain, quick to murder anyone who stands in her way, even folks she could've dispatched without killing. Feels like the movie needed more connective tissue to help the viewer understand why a character we were rooting for has changed so drastically so quickly. Not that mcu hasn't done this before - indeed Wanda & vision's romance happened offscreen between CW and IW, and Bruce became Prof Hulk in between IW and Endgame with little explanation. But it feels worse here since this is not an ensemble movie, and instead Wanda is one of the central characters.
My 2nd biggest gripe is that the movie doesn't do much to get us to like or want to see more of America Chavez. There are a few fun scenes in the beginning, i liked her poking fun at Strange for not speaking Spanish and how she goes for food 1st thing whenever arriving in a new universe. We could've used a few slower scenes with America like that. Generally the mcu is very good at creating characters that, even with minimal screentime, we like and want to see more of. Chavez wasn't bad or anything but i don't really care if she shows up again anytime soon, as opposed to how i would like to see more of Yelena, Kate Bishop, and the whole Shang-chi cast.
The deaths of the Illuminati were gruesome by mcu standards, but seemed in keeping with the overall tone of the film so I'll allow it. Still fun to see Reed, Prof X, a proper Blackbolt, live action Captain Carter, and a powered-up Maria Rambeau.
I think the movie would be much improved if Wanda had played coy and pretended to be Strange's ally initially. To me it would make sense that Wanda would try and gain America's sympathy and attempt to win her over to her cause, rather than trying to steal Chavez' power from the get-go. Since Wanda lost her kids and Chavez lost her parents it seems like the two would have much to bond over, yes? And this would allow for a few more slow scenes with the main trio to allow us to see more of how Wanda is changing (maybe even have whispers in her mind from the Darkhold) and get to know Chavez better.
I would have had the full heel turn come with the Illuminati. Wanda gets captured along with Strange and Chavez and the Illuminati's arrogance and refusal to accomodate her re: her kids finally pushes her over the edge, with the rest of the movie playing out the way it did in the theaters. It seemed like most of the more interesting horrific depictions of Wanda started around now anyhow - the earlier battle at Katma-Ta (or whatev) was mostly just Wanda hurling blasts of scarlet energy around. Change that battle so now its just one of Wanda's minions attacking (unknown to anyone else) as a ploy, so that wanda can save CHavez thus earning some trust. Have Wong kidnapped by the minion so that he can get hauled off to Cthon's temple and be around for the final battle.
As for Strange himself, his arc was pretty light in this one (basically "learn to let go/ you can't micromanage everything"). They found something for McAdams to do, frankly i would've been fine if she hadn't been in this as i felt like the 1st movie wrapped up Strange's arc with her fairly well. (disclosure: I hated the What If episode centered around Strange's love for Christine) Great points all around. Marvel should hire you to write the America Chavez film. The only thing you've said that I can't agree with is that the first Doctor Strange was better. Neither film is perfect, but the first one felt like Iron Man with Inception cg. This one was at least unique in its story, even if it was very problematic in places. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 21, 2022 12:11:52 GMT -5
Saw the movie last night... I agree with Shax... didn't love it. I think Wanda was TOO evil, and there were some HUGE plot holes. The easter eggs were really fun, but that doesn't make a movie. I also agree 100% that it was a big missed opportunity to move the MCU forward, it didn't do that at all. My wife (Who isn't a comic book person, but has got to an enjoyed a few of the movies) thought it was boring, which I totally get. America was fun, but I didn't like that she was just a little kid. She was clearly not on Kate's level, which she needs to be if they're going to do Young Avengers. Also, why didn't Billy and Timmy use their powers when 'our' Evil Wanda attacked their mom?
I think if not for the battle with the music notes (which I loved), I would give it a thumbs down overall |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 21, 2022 21:45:52 GMT -5
Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness (2022) Benedict Cumberbatch, Elizabeth Olsen, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Benedict Wong & a multitude of others
The Scarlet Witch just wants to find a universe where her fantasy children exist. Is that a bad thing?
Sam Raimi gets his opportunity to redeem himself in the Marvel Universe after Spider-Man 3 and passes with flying colors. Filled with Easter Eggs and some surprise guest stars. Filled with horrific imagery and plenty of death (but no gore). Only thing not filled with is actual multiverses, just a couple, the others are gone in a flash
A very fine addition to the MCU, one of the best
My one gripe- Benedict Cumberbatch, IMO, is one of the best actors around and well deserving of a nice fat paycheck. But these Marvel films gives him nothing to display his acting ability. He runs around, has some humorous one liners, and reacts to a green screen
I was hoping they would include The Scarlet Witches' Mother, Bova The Cow, when the action shifted to Wundergore Mountain. Guess she was somewhere Elsie.
Rates 8 1/2 out of 10
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