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Post by MDG on Apr 25, 2022 19:07:57 GMT -5
I can't really judge that Catwoman costume design because the artwork is so bad it's a distraction. I think it's probably a bad design but the stylistic shortcomings of the art itself seem to block everything else from my mind. I'd lose the garter straps but yeah, another artist might be able to make it look good (I'm thinking Arthur Adams.)
I think it's funny that the only thing the costume couldn't strap down was her chest.
I think the big problem is that it's probably hard to put that on in a hurry when an emergency comes up |
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Post by badwolf on Apr 25, 2022 19:12:21 GMT -5
I'd lose the garter straps but yeah, another artist might be able to make it look good (I'm thinking Arthur Adams.)
I think it's funny that the only thing the costume couldn't strap down was her chest.
I think the big problem is that it's probably hard to put that on in a hurry when an emergency comes up Maybe she wears it all the time. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Apr 25, 2022 21:06:18 GMT -5
Yes, that was a horrible costume, burt to be fair, none of her costumes--including the Golden Age version--ever represented her character or powers. A "canary" is an old 1940s slang term for a female nightclub singer who fronts a dance band. Her original costume with the fishnets, bolero jacket and basque is supposed to be based on the clothes that a nightclub singer would wear. So it does make sense in terms of her name.  All these years and that origin for her name had never occurred to me. Thank you, Confessor! |
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Post by berkley on Apr 25, 2022 21:40:27 GMT -5
A "canary" is an old 1940s slang term for a female nightclub singer who fronts a dance band. Her original costume with the fishnets, bolero jacket and basque is supposed to be based on the clothes that a nightclub singer would wear. So it does make sense in terms of her name. All these years and that origin for her name had never occurred to me. Thank you, Confessor! yeah, I feel pretty dumb for not having caught that too - especially since one of her special powers has to do with her vocal chords, if I recall. I wonder if they ever made her civilian identity a nightclub singer? Wouldn't work now, I suppose.
Still can't get over those boots, though.
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Post by Prince Hal on Apr 25, 2022 21:45:20 GMT -5
All these years and that origin for her name had never occurred to me. Thank you, Confessor! yeah, I feel pretty dumb for not having caught that too - especially since one of her special powers has to do with her vocal chords, if I recall. I wonder if they ever made her civilian identity a nightclub singer? Wouldn't work now, I suppose.
Still can't get over those boots, though.
That's true, but it was not a power of the Golden Age Canary. She acquired the "sonic scream" courtesy of Denny O'Neil when she switched earths in JLA 75 or so. And, yeah, those boots. They always look a little too big for her calves. At least Conan's look snug on him. I would think BC's would always be falling off in a fight. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 25, 2022 21:50:37 GMT -5
All these years and that origin for her name had never occurred to me. Thank you, Confessor! yeah, I feel pretty dumb for not having caught that too - especially since one of her special powers has to do with her vocal chords, if I recall. I wonder if they ever made her civilian identity a nightclub singer? Wouldn't work now, I suppose.
Still can't get over those boots, though.
Nothing says swashbuckler like buccaneer boots! Of course, pirates didn't actually wear boots like that; that was the province of the footsoldier and was probably more of a carryover from the Three Musketeers, in terms of Hollywood and newspaper strips. With Captain America, Simon & Kirby were trying to make him look like a knight, with shield, chain mail, heavy gauntlets and the jackboots. Some of that they were swiping from Prince Valiant and some from film/opera. Lot of early costumes owe their design from opera costumes and things like The Prisoner of Zenda, which, in turn, influenced Alex Raymond, on Flash Gordon. Superman's costume was inspired by circus strongmen and wrestlers, but, the boots are a variation on the European cavalry boots of the 1800s, as worn by Napoleon's Hussars, English officers, Prussians and within the Austro-Hungarian Empire (which is where Ruritania is supposed to be). The Catwoman thing seems to be following Frank Miller's lead in turning Selina Kyle into a prostitute/dominatrix, adding more fetish attire to go along with the whip and how we first see her, in batman Year One. I preferred Selina Kyle being an accomplished thief to being an ex-hooker. |
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Post by foxley on Apr 26, 2022 4:12:35 GMT -5
Yes, that was a horrible costume, burt to be fair, none of her costumes--including the Golden Age version--ever represented her character or powers. A "canary" is an old 1940s slang term for a female nightclub singer who fronts a dance band. Her original costume with the fishnets, bolero jacket and basque is supposed to be based on the clothes that a nightclub singer would wear. So it does make sense in terms of her name. I always thought that was kinda self-evident. But I also spent my teen years reading writers like Raymond Chandler and Dashiell Hammett, so 30s and 40s slang comes naturally to me.
I just did a quick flip through the Black Canary Archive and her boots, while remaining roll top, do become tighter fitting s the strip went on.
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Post by foxley on Apr 26, 2022 7:33:58 GMT -5
All this talk of Black Canary has reminded me of another of her fashion missteps. While everyone remembers that 80s monstrosity with the headband, towards the end of her (IMO) criminally underrated 1993 series, she briefly adopted a costume that more or less abandoned everything fans loved about her classic look. Gone was the long blonde wig and she instead sported short cropped black hair (granted that is her natural hair colour, but the buzz cut stripped away much of the femininity we fans love about her). Gone were the trademark fishnets, leaving her legs bare. Gone were the high heel swashbuckler boots, replaced by calf-high, flat-soled, heavy biker boots. Her leotard was replaced with what looked like a dominatrix corset. Essentially only her black jacket remained, and that looked more like a leather bike jacket than a bolero. Not to put too fine a point on it, but she looked like a butch lesbian. (No disrespect intended to our lesbian sisters, but if Dinah was going to be a lesbian, she should be a femme.) Fortunately this monstrosity only lasted 4 issues and has been forgotten by all but the most devoted Dinah fans.  And now that I have run this down, I will say a few words in the defence of Sarah Byam and Trevor Von Eeden who had the misfortune of presiding over this best forgotten incident. From the comments in the letter pages, and some reading between the lines, it seems that the book had already been cancelled due to low sales. I suspect the costume redesign was a last ditch attempt to generate new readership by making the character more "90s", which was a doomed effort. Fans who were reading books like Youngblood weren't going to be interested in Black Canary, and all the new costume did was alienate those of us still reading the book, who (again judging from the letter pages) loved the whole fishnets, high heels, long blonde hair 'butt-kicking but still feminine' package. However, Byam and Von Eeden at least made an attempt to save the book. |
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 26, 2022 7:43:56 GMT -5
All this talk of Black Canary has reminded me of another of her fashion missteps. While everyone remembers that 80s monstrosity with the headband, towards the end of her (IMO) criminally underrated 1993 series, she briefly adopted a costume that more or less abandoned everything fans loved about her classic look. Gone was the long blonde wig and she instead sported short cropped black hair (granted that is her natural hair colour, but the buzz cut stripped away much of the femininity we fans love about her). Gone were the trademark fishnets, leaving her legs bare. Gone were the high heel swashbuckler boots, replaced by calf-high, flat-soled, heavy biker boots. Her leotard was replaced with what looked like a dominatrix corset. Essentially only her black jacket remained, and that looked more like a leather bike jacket than a bolero. Not to put too fine a point on it, but she looked like a butch lesbian. (No disrespect intended to our lesbian sisters, but if Dinah was going to be a lesbian, she should be a femme.) Fortunately this monstrosity only lasted 4 issues and has been forgotten by all but the most devoted Dinah fans. And now that I have run this down, I will say a few words in the defence of Sarah Byam and Trevor Von Eeden who had the misfortune of presiding over this best forgotten incident. From the comments in the letter pages, and some reading between the lines, it seems that the book had already been cancelled due to low sales. I suspect the costume redesign was a last ditch attempt to generate new readership by making the character more "90s", which was a doomed effort. Fans who were reading books like Youngblood weren't going to be interested in Black Canary, and all the new costume did was alienate those of us still reading the book, who (again judging from the letter pages) loved the whole fishnets, high heels, long blonde hair 'butt-kicking but still feminine' package. However, Byam and Von Eeden at least made an attempt to save the book. Ah, another in a long line of terrible comic book decisions to give characters some sort of "edge" no one was looking for. 1990s, how I do not miss you. You are right--I doubt anyone actualy "reading" Youngblood was going to ever pay attention to / gove a chance to a Black Canary comic. It was not "e Xtreme!!!!!!" enough for many in that orbit of comic book fandom, I imagine. [/b] |
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Post by MWGallaher on Apr 26, 2022 7:59:21 GMT -5
That run "extremed" its way out with this monstrosity of a cover, which features its own horrible fashion choices with Dinah's companion:  One of the top 10 worst covers ever published by DC, in my opinion. Artist Frederico Cueva doesn't seem to have had much published in America, and from what I can find his interior art was a cut above this Image-impersonating disaster, but yecchh... |
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Post by foxley on Apr 26, 2022 8:03:50 GMT -5
Ah, another in a long line of terrible comic book decisions to give characters some sort of "edge" no one was looking for. 1990s, how I do not miss you. You are right--I doubt anyone actualy "reading" Youngblood was going to ever pay attention to / gove a chance to a Black Canary comic. It was not "e Xtreme!!!!!!" enough for many in that orbit of comic book fandom, I imagine.
Amen to that, brother.
As I said, I consider this book to an hidden gem. Sarah Byam wrote the entire series (barring one fill-in issue by Christopher Priest) and Dinah really benefited from having a female writer. And Trevor Von Eeden did the art for the entire run (bar the last issue when I think he had already moved on to other projects), and his love for the character really shows through.
It was good to see Dinah out from under Ollie's shadow. And the book was allowing her to develop her own supporting cast and rogues gallery (none of whom have been seen since this book ended). But it was wrong for the zeitgeist of the early 90s.
And while I may not have been a fan of those last few issues, I will give Byam and Von Eeden credit for making an attempt to save the book after it had essentially been cancelled. I remember and interview with Michael Fleisher were he said something similar. He didn't actually create the idea the post-apocalyptic Hex book. The powers-that-be had already cancelled Jonah Hex and someone in editorial threw him the idea as an option to keep the character going and Fleisher grabbed it and ran with it.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 26, 2022 21:49:13 GMT -5
She had another in-between, before that, in Action Comics Weekly. She basically wore something akin to street clothes...  It's less a costume and more that she just went out in her street clothes, though I think this was a test for a new look. Sharon Wright (Mike Grell's ex) was doing the writing. She continued to appear in basic street clothes and no wig, in Green Arrow, under Grell. Action Comics Weekly #624 had her back in the classic, though the buccaneer boots had flat soles. In that story above, she wears boots with sensible lower heels, which made a bit more sense, for fighting. They were trying to make some concession for hand-to-hand fighting, since her canary cry was gone, at this stage. That continued into at least the early days of Birds of Prey. |
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Post by jason on Apr 26, 2022 22:29:46 GMT -5
Look at this monstrosity Booster Gold wore for a time:  |
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Post by berkley on Apr 27, 2022 0:45:32 GMT -5
She had another in-between, before that, in Action Comics Weekly. She basically wore something akin to street clothes... It's less a costume and more that she just went out in her street clothes, though I think this was a test for a new look. Sharon Wright (Mike Grell's ex) was doing the writing. She continued to appear in basic street clothes and no wig, in Green Arrow, under Grell. Action Comics Weekly #624 had her back in the classic, though the buccaneer boots had flat soles. In that story above, she wears boots with sensible lower heels, which made a bit more sense, for fighting. They were trying to make some concession for hand-to-hand fighting, since her canary cry was gone, at this stage. That continued into at least the early days of Birds of Prey.
Is that Paul Gulacy? I'll have to try and find those issues if he drew a story in them, even though I don't particularly like the look of this sample.
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Post by berkley on Apr 27, 2022 0:46:41 GMT -5
I think the big problem is that it's probably hard to put that on in a hurry when an emergency comes up Maybe she wears it all the time.
I thought he meant needing to go to the bathroom fast, that kind of emergency.
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