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Post by Hoosier X on Mar 29, 2022 15:43:39 GMT -5
This is a thread for all things Metropolis! From Superman to Lois Lane to the Fourth World to Rose and the Thorn to anything related to the city of Metropolis!
You know I love Gotham City. I love Batman and I love Detective Comics and I love The Brave and the Bold, but an awful lot of what keeps me coming back to the Batman family of comics - year after year, decade after decade - is Gotham City. It seems like a real city to me, and I've felt that way for almost fifty years.
But Metropolis not so much. It's just the name they call the city that Superman flies over, where Lois Lane is always falling out of a building and where Jimmy Olsen has his own personal helicopter.
Maybe I would feel differently if I was more of a Superman fan and had read more Superman comics. I'm a sporadic Superman reader. I don't think I've ever read Superman or Action Comics for more than 15 consecutive issues since the first Superman comic I ever bought (#301, which I bought for Solomon Grundy).
I mean, yeah, the Daily Planet, a building with a globe on the roof, is a recognizable landmark of the city. Everybody who matters (to me) in Metropolis works there. But one workplace is not a very strong element to try to imagine a city around.
But a strange confluence of events has got me to thinking about Metropolis as a more concrete (though fictional) place.
I've been reading the Fourth World stories of Jack Kirby. Each of the four series benefits from substantial settings in Metropolis. The garage where the Newsboy Legion hangs out and the skyscraper from which Morgan Edge (actually his clone) manages his entertainment empire are both depicted in Kirby's Jimmy Olsen series. And then there's the banged-up neighborhood where Trixie McGruder's boarding house is located, where the Forever People shack up for a few issues. In the New Gods, Orion befriends four ordinary citizens of Metropolis, and their lives are greatly disrupted by the New Gods and the battles with Mantis and Kalibak. Bot to mention Terrible Turpin and the Metropolis PD. (I have to admit, I'm not so clear on Mister Miracle. Maybe he's out on the Metropolis equivalent of Long Island?)
And, coincidentally, I got a few more issues of Lois Lane recently, early 1970s Lois Lane, with Rose and the Thorn!
It's a Superman Family series for sure, but Lois is a lot more grounded than Superman. The Man of Steel flies over the city; Lois has to drive or take a taxi. She sees the city. Lois has an assignment in Little Africa! Wow! Metropolis has a labeled neighborhood! And she can't get a cab (because she's Black in this issue) so she has to take the subway!
And in the same general time period, Lois quits the Planet to go freelance and she has to get a new apartment ... and some roommates to help with rent! Julia Spence, Marsha Mallow and Kristin Cutler. I love the roommates! Julia is Black and does yoga. Marsha eats too much and jokes about it. And Kristin is the mysterious roommate, who walks around in her sleep, mumbling and wielding a butcher knife. (Maybe Kristin moved to Metropolis from Gotham? It seem possible.)
Suddenly Metropolis has some characters I care about that don't work at the Daily Planet!
The city just keeps getting more and more real to me.
The back-up in early 1970s Lois Lane is Rose and the Thorn, another Metropolis-based character who doesn't work at the Planet. She has a whole neighborhood in her set-up, with a brownstone and an alley and a secret passage to an abandoned costume shop!
Now we're world-building!
And strangely enough, this same period introduces two different crime syndicates! The 100 (who killed the Thorn's father) and Inter-Gang (which works for Darkseid and is mostly run by the Morgan Edge clone). The main difference between the 100 and Inter-Gang is that the 100 uses flying acrobats and Inter-Gang uses a lot of clones from Darkseid's secret laboratories.
But they both want to kill Lois!
I assume everybody has a slightly different reason to harbor any affection for Metropolis based on when they were reading Superman and Action and other DC comics. But, for me, this is a pretty good place to start!
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 29, 2022 17:19:47 GMT -5
And don’t forget Suicide Slum, which was the original neighborhood of the Newsboy Legion back in the Star Spangled Comics days. I think they were supposed to be in New York back then, but it was “rezoned” into Metropolis when their kids (clones?) reappeared in Jimmy Olsen when Kirby took over.
Tony Isabella used it as the locale for Black Lightning, too.
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Post by Hoosier X on Mar 29, 2022 19:31:32 GMT -5
I’m trying to remember if the garage in Jimmy Olsen is in Suicide Slum. I’ll have to look at it again.
My brother bought the first few issues of Black Lightning but I had forgotten it was in Suicide Slum. Is it right next to Little Africa?
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 29, 2022 20:49:41 GMT -5
I’m trying to remember if the garage in Jimmy Olsen is in Suicide Slum. I’ll have to look at it again. My brother bought the first few issues of Black Lightning but I had forgotten it was in Suicide Slum. Is it right next to Little Africa? Didn't exist then, maybe? Or if it had already appeared in Lois Lane, I don't recall its being mentioned in BL.
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Post by Hoosier X on Mar 29, 2022 20:51:46 GMT -5
I got a copy of Superman #292 (1975) over the weekend. It’s an interesting examination of the Bronze Age Lex Luthor and his relationship with Superman going back to when they were both boys in Smallville. You know, the origin where Lex has a lifelong grudge against Superman because he thinks he sabotaged the experiment and made Luthor’s hair fall out. (Which is so dumb I can’t imagined why the current DC Cinema Universe hasn’t made a whole movie out of it.)
Early in the story, Clark Kent is having lunch at the Galaxy Building Cafeteria! So that’s a geographical landmark for Metropolis! Morgan Edge’s Galaxy Building has a cafeteria!
And he’s having lunch with ... Roy Raymond! Yes! THAT Roy Raymond, the host of Impossible ... But True! I guess Morgan Edge has hired Roy Raymond and brought him to Metropolis. (Maybe he always was in Metropolis! And I just assumed it was Gotham. I’ll have to pay closer attention to those Roy Raymond stories.)
The story doesn’t say a thing about why Clark Kent and Roy Raymond are having lunch together. And Clark is quickly called away because Lex has escaped from prison.
Lex terrorizes Metropolis International Airport until Superman defeats him, but along the way, the Man of Steel reminisces about his troubled relationship with Lex and wonders what else he could have done and how it’s going to end.
I think maybe if I had read this issue when I was a kid, I would have liked Superman better. It was on sale about the same time I was buying my first super-hero comics.
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Post by Hoosier X on Mar 29, 2022 20:55:51 GMT -5
I’m trying to remember if the garage in Jimmy Olsen is in Suicide Slum. I’ll have to look at it again. My brother bought the first few issues of Black Lightning but I had forgotten it was in Suicide Slum. Is it right next to Little Africa? Didn't exist then, maybe? Or if it had already appeared in Lois Lane, I don't recall its being mentioned in BL. I always start putting together fictional neighborhoods into the Gotham geography in my head. I think Cherry Hill and Burnside (In Gotham) are right next to each other, but Burnside is the more prestigious community. Cherry Hill is kind of scary! I’m just getting started with Metropolis!
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Post by Prince Hal on Mar 29, 2022 20:56:16 GMT -5
I got a copy of Superman #292 (1975) over the weekend. It’s an interesting examination of the Bronze Age Lex Luthor and his relationship with Superman going back to when they were both boys in Smallville. You know, the origin where Lex has a lifelong grudge against Superman because he thinks he sabotaged the experiment and made Luthor’s hair fall out. (Which is so dumb I can’t imagined why the current DC Cinema Universe hasn’t made a whole movie out of it.) Yeah, like imagine someone seeking vengeance for something so slight. Like a joke about your wife going bald. Or a joke about how the biggest decision you ever made had to make was whether or not to fire an E-list celebrity.
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Post by berkley on Mar 29, 2022 22:00:19 GMT -5
I liked the Fritz Lang movie.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 29, 2022 22:04:13 GMT -5
I got a copy of Superman #292 (1975) over the weekend. It’s an interesting examination of the Bronze Age Lex Luthor and his relationship with Superman going back to when they were both boys in Smallville. You know, the origin where Lex has a lifelong grudge against Superman because he thinks he sabotaged the experiment and made Luthor’s hair fall out. (Which is so dumb I can’t imagined why the current DC Cinema Universe hasn’t made a whole movie out of it.) Early in the story, Clark Kent is having lunch at the Galaxy Building Cafeteria! So that’s a geographical landmark for Metropolis! Morgan Edge’s Galaxy Building has a cafeteria! And he’s having lunch with ... Roy Raymond! Yes! THAT Roy Raymond, the host of Impossible ... But True! I guess Morgan Edge has hired Roy Raymond and brought him to Metropolis. (Maybe he always was in Metropolis! And I just assumed it was Gotham. I’ll have to pay closer attention to those Roy Raymond stories.) The story doesn’t say a thing about why Clark Kent and Roy Raymond are having lunch together. And Clark is quickly called away because Lex has escaped from prison. Lex terrorizes Metropolis International Airport until Superman defeats him, but along the way, the Man of Steel reminisces about his troubled relationship with Lex and wonders what else he could have done and how it’s going to end. I think maybe if I had read this issue when I was a kid, I would have liked Superman better. It was on sale about the same time I was buying my first super-hero comics. Ah, but that wasn't the reason that Lex held a grudge. That was what he told Superboy, when he swore vengeance. What he would never tell the young Superboy or the adult Superman was that his real grudge against Superman was that he killed Luthor's "child." Elements of this appeared in several stories; but, Elliot Maggin expanded upon it in his Superman: Last Son of Krypton novel (released with the 1978 movie). Lex had developed a protoplasmic lifeform (it originally appeared as a sort of smoke creature, in the origin story). While working on an antidote to kryptonite, Lex had a lab accident that created a fire and noxious and caustic fumes. Because Superboy lined the lab with lead (after building it, as a reward for saving his life), he couldn't see the protoplasmic lifeform and he used his super-breath to snuff out the fumes. However, it drove the cloud of gases into the lifeform and killed it. Lex got out, but his hair fell out. He used that as his excuse to rage against Superboy, because, he knew that if he told Superboy/Superman that he had killed the lifeform, the hero would try to atone for the deed and Lex would have to forgive him. He hides that true reason from him, into their adult lives. Maggin wrote the best pre-Crisis Luthor, ever. he has a wicked and sarcastic sense of humor, sleeps in an ancient (and stolen) Egyptian sarcophagus, lined with Snoopy sheets, and operates from the upper floors of a building, which are camouflaged from view below and above, by special holograms. He operates his criminal empire from there, while also creating all kinds of beneficial medicines, new inventions and wonders of science, some of which he uses in his battles, some he introduces through false identities and cutouts, some he synthesizes at a moments notice, and some he disguises as works of modern art (one of his cover identities is a flamboyant modern sculptor and an installation by the identity actually disguises a spaceship). He also masquerades as a globetrotting doctor, who helps with epidemics and natural disasters. He idolizes Einstein and celebrates his birthday by reliving his life (in one story) and stealing sealed documents that were kept in a vault, until a particular day is reached (it turns out they are written in Kryptonese, which Luthor thinks is a code, as a letter to Superman, to explain why he defied Jor-El's wishes and manipulated the Kents into being on the back road when Kal-El's rocket crashed to Earth). When Luthor is in prison, he is given pens and legal pads, and he spends his time writing and sketching out ideas, like Da Vinci, though he also has figured out how to synthesize a concentrated explosive from the glue used on the writing pad, the ink in the pens, and a couple of other items available in his cell. He doesn't do it, because he will be denied the pads and pens if he is caught again. Maggin also wrote that Lois secretly writes romance novels, under a pen name, and sportscaster Steve Lombard (ex-NFL jock and all-around jerk), watches old movies on Sunday, during football season, rather than the games he can no longer play. Maggin also expanded on young Lex and Clark Kent's relationship, in Smallville. Clark was Lex's only friend, apart from Superboy. Everyone else finds Lex's genius off-putting and intimidating. He also has poor social skills, as he is short-tempered, especially because adults can't keep up. His father travels in his work and he acks a positive role model. Clark accepts him for who he is and gives Lex and avenue to vent his more agitated impulses, without recklessly endangering people. Lex seems to recognize that Clark is one of the smartest kids in the class and has more going on then people think, though he also thinks he is a drip, and likes to poke fun at him. The fact that Clark doesn't get angry with him amuses Luthor, yet, secretly, it gives him companionship, when everyone else avoids him. In both that novel and the sequel, Miracle Monday, Lex ends up aiding Superman in defeating a greater evil. He still tries to mess with Superman; but, he has a sort of moral code. To me, it was far more multi-dimensional than just mad scientist Luthor or criminal genius Luthor, or Billionaire wannabe dictator Luthor.
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Post by Hoosier X on Mar 29, 2022 22:46:57 GMT -5
I got a copy of Superman #292 (1975) over the weekend. It’s an interesting examination of the Bronze Age Lex Luthor and his relationship with Superman going back to when they were both boys in Smallville. You know, the origin where Lex has a lifelong grudge against Superman because he thinks he sabotaged the experiment and made Luthor’s hair fall out. (Which is so dumb I can’t imagined why the current DC Cinema Universe hasn’t made a whole movie out of it.) Early in the story, Clark Kent is having lunch at the Galaxy Building Cafeteria! So that’s a geographical landmark for Metropolis! Morgan Edge’s Galaxy Building has a cafeteria! And he’s having lunch with ... Roy Raymond! Yes! THAT Roy Raymond, the host of Impossible ... But True! I guess Morgan Edge has hired Roy Raymond and brought him to Metropolis. (Maybe he always was in Metropolis! And I just assumed it was Gotham. I’ll have to pay closer attention to those Roy Raymond stories.) The story doesn’t say a thing about why Clark Kent and Roy Raymond are having lunch together. And Clark is quickly called away because Lex has escaped from prison. Lex terrorizes Metropolis International Airport until Superman defeats him, but along the way, the Man of Steel reminisces about his troubled relationship with Lex and wonders what else he could have done and how it’s going to end. I think maybe if I had read this issue when I was a kid, I would have liked Superman better. It was on sale about the same time I was buying my first super-hero comics. Ah, but that wasn't the reason that Lex held a grudge. That was what he told Superboy, when he swore vengeance. What he would never tell the young Superboy or the adult Superman was that his real grudge against Superman was that he killed Luthor's "child." Elements of this appeared in several stories; but, Elliot Maggin expanded upon it in his Superman: Last Son of Krypton novel (released with the 1978 movie). Lex had developed a protoplasmic lifeform (it originally appeared as a sort of smoke creature, in the origin story). While working on an antidote to kryptonite, Lex had a lab accident that created a fire and noxious and caustic fumes. Because Superboy lined the lab with lead (after building it, as a reward for saving his life), he couldn't see the protoplasmic lifeform and he used his super-breath to snuff out the fumes. However, it drove the cloud of gases into the lifeform and killed it. Lex got out, but his hair fell out. He used that as his excuse to rage against Superboy, because, he knew that if he told Superboy/Superman that he had killed the lifeform, the hero would try to atone for the deed and Lex would have to forgive him. He hides that true reason from him, into their adult lives. Maggin wrote the best pre-Crisis Luthor, ever. he has a wicked and sarcastic sense of humor, sleeps in an ancient (and stolen) Egyptian sarcophagus, lined with Snoopy sheets, and operates from the upper floors of a building, which are camouflaged from view below and above, by special holograms. He operates his criminal empire from there, while also creating all kinds of beneficial medicines, new inventions and wonders of science, some of which he uses in his battles, some he introduces through false identities and cutouts, some he synthesizes at a moments notice, and some he disguises as works of modern art (one of his cover identities is a flamboyant modern sculptor and an installation by the identity actually disguises a spaceship). He also masquerades as a globetrotting doctor, who helps with epidemics and natural disasters. He idolizes Einstein and celebrates his birthday by reliving his life (in one story) and stealing sealed documents that were kept in a vault, until a particular day is reached (it turns out they are written in Kryptonese, which Luthor thinks is a code, as a letter to Superman, to explain why he defied Jor-El's wishes and manipulated the Kents into being on the back road when Kal-El's rocket crashed to Earth). When Luthor is in prison, he is given pens and legal pads, and he spends his time writing and sketching out ideas, like Da Vinci, though he also has figured out how to synthesize a concentrated explosive from the glue used on the writing pad, the ink in the pens, and a couple of other items available in his cell. He doesn't do it, because he will be denied the pads and pens if he is caught again. Maggin also wrote that Lois secretly writes romance novels, under a pen name, and sportscaster Steve Lombard (ex-NFL jock and all-around jerk), watches old movies on Sunday, during football season, rather than the games he can no longer play. Maggin also expanded on young Lex and Clark Kent's relationship, in Smallville. Clark was Lex's only friend, apart from Superboy. Everyone else finds Lex's genius off-putting and intimidating. He also has poor social skills, as he is short-tempered, especially because adults can't keep up. His father travels in his work and he acks a positive role model. Clark accepts him for who he is and gives Lex and avenue to vent his more agitated impulses, without recklessly endangering people. Lex seems to recognize that Clark is one of the smartest kids in the class and has more going on then people think, though he also thinks he is a drip, and likes to poke fun at him. The fact that Clark doesn't get angry with him amuses Luthor, yet, secretly, it gives him companionship, when everyone else avoids him. In both that novel and the sequel, Miracle Monday, Lex ends up aiding Superman in defeating a greater evil. He still tries to mess with Superman; but, he has a sort of moral code. To me, it was far more multi-dimensional than just mad scientist Luthor or criminal genius Luthor, or Billionaire wannabe dictator Luthor. I had a copy of Last Son of Krypton. I bought it new at the bookstore because I was curious what a Superman novel would be like. But I never got around to reading it. I wonder if it’s expensive on eBay?
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Post by Hoosier X on Mar 29, 2022 22:51:00 GMT -5
I got it for less than $5, including postage and tax.
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 30, 2022 0:12:36 GMT -5
I got it for less than $5, including postage and tax. One of the best prose versions of a superhero character. Maggin understood the differences between prose storytelling and comic books. A lot of writers don't, especially comic book writers trying to write prose and they have had mixed results. Maggin gets it. in the two Superman novels, Maggin illustrates the strategy that Superman uses to stop natural disasters or stop criminals. In one segment, he stops a multi-bank robbery, by systematically disabling the backpack helicopter-transported crooks. He creates engine trouble, forcing a pair to land and fuses the lock on the door to the roof of that building, trapping them there. Others he disables through various means, while he sets up his cape to catch them and neutralize them. it's like a series of chess moves, leading to a checkmate. With a massive tidal wave, he dives into the wave, creating a vacuum to put another force on the wave. he then burns a trench in the ocean floor to divert some of the volume of water. He vaporizes some of it, then uses his super-breath to direct it towards a region plagued by draught, where it will condense and rain down. It's a sequence of 5 or 6 separate actions that ultimately dispels enough of the tidal wave to make its landfall relatively harmless. An artist could show that in a panel or two (or a page or two); but, Maggin doesn't have that luxury. however, in illustrating the feat via descriptive passages, he presents the idea that Superman uses his brain more, to direct the actions of his super powers. It's like reading how a highly skilled wrestler or martial artist uses technique to defeat an opponent, rather than raw strength. Maggin was later tapped to do the novelization of Kingdom Come and did a terrific job, adding nuances to things and also fleshing out some of the cameos, like Alan Scott.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,199
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Post by Confessor on Mar 30, 2022 12:45:34 GMT -5
Something I always wondered about is whether Metropolis was supposed to be New York City or was that Gotham?
Back when I was regularly or semi-regularly reading Superman and Batman comics, Gotham certainly had the sleazy, crime ridden streets of 70s and 80s NYC, but I always got the impression that Metropolis was supposed to actually be NYC. Which would mean that Gotham was more like Newark or maybe even Philadelphia, maybe???
Or maybe both Gotham and Metropolis were meant to represent different aspects of NYC? Like, Gotham was the DC equivalent of the tougher neighbourhoods like Hell's Kitchen, Harlem, the Bronx etc, and Metropolis was based on places like Gramercy, Greenwich Village, or the Upper East Side etc?
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Post by chadwilliam on Mar 30, 2022 12:57:08 GMT -5
Something I always wondered about is whether Metropolis was supposed to be New York City or was that Gotham? Back when I was regularly or semi-regularly reading Superman and Batman comics, Gotham certainly had the sleazy, crime ridden streets of 70s and 80s NYC, but I always got the impression that Metropolis was supposed to actually be NYC. Which would mean that Gotham was more like Newark or maybe even Philadelphia, maybe??? Or maybe both Gotham and Metropolis were meant to represent different aspects of NYC? Like, Gotham was the DC equivalent of the tougher neighbourhoods like Hell's Kitchen, Harlem, the Bronx etc, and Metropolis was based on places like Gramercy, Greenwich Village, or the Upper East Side etc? I can't remember who said it, but I have heard that "Metropolis is New York during the day and Gotham is New York by night".
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 30, 2022 13:10:11 GMT -5
Denny O'Neil used to say Gotham was the more dangerous parts of NYC and Metropolis was the sterling towers and such. He actually said street names; but, I can't recall the specifics. Metropolis, early on, drew some inspiration from Cleveland, since that was where Siegel and Schuster lived, and a bit of Toronto. The DC Atlas that they put out, for the role playing game, had Gotham in New Jersey and Metropolis in Delaware. I wouldn't take the location of the number as the exact spot of the city, since Metropolis has a shoreline and harbor.
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