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Post by impulse on Jul 4, 2022 12:56:52 GMT -5
I'll never say no to more versions and alternate endings and such. I do, when George Lucas is involved. It's one thing when you give us all of the versions; it's another when you take a big eraser to the original. Yes, this was my point. Additional versions? Sure, all day long, but don't take away the original, especially after it made you rich and became part of pop culture. If you aren't familiar with this version, you might want to look into Harmy's Despecialized Editions of the OT. The gist is they wanted an HD version of the theatrical cut, so they manually made one using the Blu Rays for most of it and piecing in upscaled scenes from the Laser Disc version from 93 to get as closely as possible to the originals. That is a very simplified version, and they did a great job, all things considered. I believe there was another project out there called 4K77 that sought to be even more accurate. From their site "97% of project 4K77 is from a single, original 1977 35mm Technicolor release print, scanned at full 4K, cleaned at 4K, and rendered at 4K." I haven't watched it through, but it might be what you are looking for. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 4, 2022 13:16:05 GMT -5
I do, when George Lucas is involved. It's one thing when you give us all of the versions; it's another when you take a big eraser to the original. Yes, this was my point. Additional versions? Sure, all day long, but don't take away the original, especially after it made you rich and became part of pop culture. If you aren't familiar with this version, you might want to look into Harmy's Despecialized Editions of the OT. The gist is they wanted an HD version of the theatrical cut, so they manually made one using the Blu Rays for most of it and piecing in upscaled scenes from the Laser Disc version from 93 to get as closely as possible to the originals. That is a very simplified version, and they did a great job, all things considered. I believe there was another project out there called 4K77 that sought to be even more accurate. From their site "97% of project 4K77 is from a single, original 1977 35mm Technicolor release print, scanned at full 4K, cleaned at 4K, and rendered at 4K." I haven't watched it through, but it might be what you are looking for. I have Deleted Magic, with the deleted footage, unaltered, and the original title crawl, which is good enough for me. I also have the original tv Making of specials. Those fit my nostalgia, enough, and the 80 cut, on the duel disc dvd release (with the Special editions and most recent versions of the originals) is close enough for government work. |
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Post by impulse on Jul 5, 2022 9:14:55 GMT -5
Cool, if you're happy, say no more! I've seen Harmy's, and they are FANTASTIC for my purposes.
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Post by berkley on Jul 9, 2022 22:49:02 GMT -5
Echoing others here: definitely not cheating. Whatever it takes to get to a superior piece of art at the end. Happens all the time in music. A song can change a lot from the time it's written to when it's recorded and released. Input from fellow musicians, producers, record company executives etc, or the reactions of a live concert audience might all inform the final shape of a song. This is true... my first love in Rock was Billy Joel (though I've never gotten over the disappointment of him not writing a break up album when he split with Christie Brinkley).. his last box set included demos and early song versions.. cool stuff. There were quite a few where the lyrics were just scrapped and re-done.
I was hoping Christie Brinkley would do a break-up album. At least the cover might have been nice ...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2022 12:08:04 GMT -5
The other side of market tests:
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Post by berkley on Aug 5, 2022 1:38:21 GMT -5
I see the use of test audiences as a tool that can be used in good ways or bad ways and everything in between, so neither good nor bad in itself. Actually re-shooting scenes would be on the extreme end of reactions, it seems to me, but who knows, perhaps warranted in some cases.
After seeing David Lynch's Lost Highway again a few weeks ago I was reading about it a bit and came across something I hadn't been aware of before: Lynch re-edited the film, cutting a few scenes, after some test audience reactions. Not quite the same as re-shooting entire scenes, but still a pretty significant change - apparently they cut around 20 minutes - and this in a film that most people at the time didn't like anyway, as it turned out. This struck me when I read it because I think there's a perception with many people that Lynch is at times deliberately trying to bamboozle viewers in a cynical way, so he'd be the last person, etc.
Sometimes it can be a test audience of one: apparently Wilkie Collins convinced Dickens to alter the ending of Great Expectations, telling him his original plan would alienate readers - and Dickens did make the change that Collns suggested and that is the famous novel we now have (this is from memory, so apologies if i have any details wrong). Yes, of course, Collins was a fellow author, and a highly successful one, so not the same kind of test audience we're talking about here with the movies, but the principle s the same: an artist adjusting his or her work in response to an outside opinion.
But never mind all that, I still find myself more in sympathy with the idea of a writer, a creator, an artist holding true to their personal inspiration. Collaborative media such as film, comics, tv make this ideal (if it really is one) more than problematic - pretty much unrealisable, really - but I still think it should be cherished, even if only as an impossible dream: that all the many contributors be on the same wavelength, if only for this one specific project.
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Post by impulse on Aug 5, 2022 9:18:21 GMT -5
I agree that test screenings are just a tool, and like any tool, there exist quality different between the tools themselves and how they are wielded.
Side note, there is an argument for the value of pure artistic integrity. On the other hand, many works have greatly benefited from additional points of view and feedback, often admittedly so by the creators. One that leaps to mind is Kevin Smith changed the original ending from his debut film Clerks when he was told it was too bleak and depressing. He has has agreed in interviews it was absolutely the right call. (this is from memory so apologies if I've misrepresented anything).
Counter-counterpoint to myself, the filmmakers bizarrely changed the ending of the I Am Legend movie with Will Smith to a generic Hollywood blow up the bad guys/good guy escapes ending that was completely out of whack with the story so far. The alternate ending both makes more sense with the rest of the film but was also more accurate to the original, or so I read.
So yeah, lots of idiots running around with tools they don't know how to use in the companies that produce and publish creative products.
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Post by tonebone on Aug 31, 2022 15:01:36 GMT -5
I work in the video game industry, and video game production has a lot in common with movie production. I think a lot of movie reshoots are due to the fact that a large production like that is a slow-steering ship which usually morphs and evolves during the long production time. By the time they reach post-production, they find they need additional scenes or entire set pieces, to flesh out the story and make it a more cohesive experience. And, thanks to modern FX magic, a lot of the reshoots can be done on greenscreen stages and digitally added to the production. I think the reason it's more common nowadays, is that it's never been easier.
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