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Post by commond on Oct 5, 2022 19:11:07 GMT -5
I wouldn't have minded Alan Moore doing the X-Men, come to think of it, or The Hulk.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2022 19:13:48 GMT -5
Allow me to present the Opposition Party Response to that idea. One of the reasons I never really liked Dr Strange was because there were no rules to his powers, which led to a LOT of lazy writing, where his magic doesn't work, until it does. The visuals were the only real interest for me, when I encountered the character. I would have loved someone like Moore adding a structure to the magic, thereby giving you better rules to craft more meaningful stories with the character. You know what? Normally, I would totally agree with you. Early Dr. Strange's magic battles read like watching the writer play chess with himself while also inventing both the pieces and moves as he went along, and as a rule I don't have much patience for that kind of thing. But for some reason, this was the very definition of tremendously entertaining nonsense, and I plowed straight through the collection of all those early stories without needing a break. I wouldn't mind someone adding some back stories to the mythology, but Moore is so dead serious about the stuff he's serious about that I don't think his Dr. Strange would be any fun at all.
This has come up before but it's been a long time since it was mentioned and posted here. Comic editor and fan cat yronwode compiled and codified the magic of Doctor Strange (spells, incantations, items, entities, rules of magic etc.) as presented in the comics beginning with ST #110 and going until sometime in the 80s or 90s I believe and published/posted it as the Lesser Book of the Vishanti. You can take a look at it hereIt's unofficial, but it's existence common knowledge among certain circles of fans and creators of Dr. Strange for a while and it was made accessible to them if they wanted it. -M
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Post by berkley on Oct 6, 2022 1:44:58 GMT -5
I'm no expert on Alan Moore but if the hypothetical scenario is meant to be what if Moore had written for Marvel instead of DC then we're talking the 1980s, which I think is well before his interest in magic became serious. So I don't think we can necessarily look at something like Promethea and take that as a picture of what Moore's approach to magic in Doctor Strange might have looked like in 1985 or whatever.
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Post by Calidore on Oct 6, 2022 18:45:20 GMT -5
You know what? Normally, I would totally agree with you. Early Dr. Strange's magic battles read like watching the writer play chess with himself while also inventing both the pieces and moves as he went along, and as a rule I don't have much patience for that kind of thing. But for some reason, this was the very definition of tremendously entertaining nonsense, and I plowed straight through the collection of all those early stories without needing a break. I wouldn't mind someone adding some back stories to the mythology, but Moore is so dead serious about the stuff he's serious about that I don't think his Dr. Strange would be any fun at all.
This has come up before but it's been a long time since it was mentioned and posted here. Comic editor and fan cat yronwode compiled and codified the magic of Doctor Strange (spells, incantations, items, entities, rules of magic etc.) as presented in the comics beginning with ST #110 and going until sometime in the 80s or 90s I believe and published/posted it as the Lesser Book of the Vishanti. You can take a look at it hereIt's unofficial, but it's existence common knowledge among certain circles of fans and creators of Dr. Strange for a while and it was made accessible to them if they wanted it. -M Never heard of this, but it certainly looks worth checking out. Thanks for posting it! I'm no expert on Alan Moore but if the hypothetical scenario is meant to be what if Moore had written for Marvel instead of DC then we're talking the 1980s, which I think is well before his interest in magic became serious. So I don't think we can necessarily look at something like Promethea and take that as a picture of what Moore's approach to magic in Doctor Strange might have looked like in 1985 or whatever.
I was assuming the '80s also, and you have a point.
And now, for some reason, I'm trying to imagine what Dr. Strange by Peter Milligan and Brendan McCarthy would look like.
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Post by commond on Oct 6, 2022 18:56:06 GMT -5
The time frame could be the late 80s after Moore left DC, or the 90s, or even the 00s I suppose.
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Post by berkley on Oct 6, 2022 19:09:34 GMT -5
This has come up before but it's been a long time since it was mentioned and posted here. Comic editor and fan cat yronwode compiled and codified the magic of Doctor Strange (spells, incantations, items, entities, rules of magic etc.) as presented in the comics beginning with ST #110 and going until sometime in the 80s or 90s I believe and published/posted it as the Lesser Book of the Vishanti. You can take a look at it hereIt's unofficial, but it's existence common knowledge among certain circles of fans and creators of Dr. Strange for a while and it was made accessible to them if they wanted it. -M Never heard of this, but it certainly looks worth checking out. Thanks for posting it! I'm no expert on Alan Moore but if the hypothetical scenario is meant to be what if Moore had written for Marvel instead of DC then we're talking the 1980s, which I think is well before his interest in magic became serious. So I don't think we can necessarily look at something like Promethea and take that as a picture of what Moore's approach to magic in Doctor Strange might have looked like in 1985 or whatever.
I was assuming the '80s also, and you have a point.
And now, for some reason, I'm trying to imagine what Dr. Strange by Peter Milligan and Brendan McCarthy would look like.
The Cat Yronwode Dr. Strange thing is news to me as well, and I'll take a look at it one of these days, maybe the next time I read some Dr. Strange.
On the question of Alan Moore writing Marvel, I find it hard to imagine anything that would have interested him. How did he come to write Swamp Thing for DC? Was that just the first character or title they offered him or was it something he had already wanted to do?
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Post by commond on Oct 6, 2022 19:30:40 GMT -5
Len Wein offered Moore either Swamp Thing or Justice League of America and Moore chose Swamp Thing, presumably because it offered more creative freedom. Kurt Busiek revealed that he was pitching fill-ins to Len Wein at the time and wound up using his Swamp Thing pitch as the origin of an Astro City character.
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Post by berkley on Oct 6, 2022 21:42:30 GMT -5
Len Wein offered Moore either Swamp Thing or Justice League of America and Moore chose Swamp Thing, presumably because it offered more creative freedom. Kurt Busiek revealed that he was pitching fill-ins to Len Wein at the time and wound up using his Swamp Thing pitch as the origin of an Astro City character. Going by that, I suppose we'd have to imagine what kind of thing Shooter or whoever was in charge at the time would have offered him and if they gave him a choice which he would have chosen. My guess is that he might not have chosen Man-Thing, because he wouldn't have been able to get Gerber's approval as he did Len Wein's for DC's ST.
I should say that I'm not sure to what point Moore's feelings about creators' rights had developed at that time - perhaps he wouldn't have minded then, in the mid-1980s, whether or not Gerber was OK with him writing M-T, though I'm pretty sure he would have minded very much a few years later. And perhaps Gerber wouldn't have cared one way or the other, since he wasn't the actual creator of M-T, just the writer who had done most with that character or concept.
What other likely candidates would there have been: relatively unpopular characters or titles that had perhaps been without an ongoing series for some time or were revived only on occasion?
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Post by Calidore on Oct 6, 2022 22:28:10 GMT -5
Going by that, I suppose we'd have to imagine what kind of thing Shooter or whoever was in charge at the time would have offered him and if they gave him a choice which he would have chosen. My guess is that he might not have chosen Man-Thing, because he wouldn't have been able to get Gerber's approval as he did Len Wein's for DC's ST.
I should say that I'm not sure to what point Moore's feelings about creators' rights had developed at that time - perhaps he wouldn't have minded then, in the mid-1980s, whether or not Gerber was OK with him writing M-T, though I'm pretty sure he would have minded very much a few years later. And perhaps Gerber wouldn't have cared one way or the other, since he wasn't the actual creator of M-T, just the writer who had done most with that character or concept.
What other likely candidates would there have been: relatively unpopular characters or titles that had perhaps been without an ongoing series for some time or were revived only on occasion?
I'm sure he would at least have observed the same professional courtesy he would have expected. I don't remember him having a problem with Swamp Thing continuing under others after he left; by the same token, I don't think he'd have had a problem with working on Man-Thing. But I'm sure he would have sought Gerber's blessing before writing Howard the Duck.
Actually, Moore on Howard....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2022 23:55:42 GMT -5
Len Wein offered Moore either Swamp Thing or Justice League of America and Moore chose Swamp Thing, presumably because it offered more creative freedom. Kurt Busiek revealed that he was pitching fill-ins to Len Wein at the time and wound up using his Swamp Thing pitch as the origin of an Astro City character. Going by that, I suppose we'd have to imagine what kind of thing Shooter or whoever was in charge at the time would have offered him and if they gave him a choice which he would have chosen. My guess is that he might not have chosen Man-Thing, because he wouldn't have been able to get Gerber's approval as he did Len Wein's for DC's ST.
I should say that I'm not sure to what point Moore's feelings about creators' rights had developed at that time - perhaps he wouldn't have minded then, in the mid-1980s, whether or not Gerber was OK with him writing M-T, though I'm pretty sure he would have minded very much a few years later. And perhaps Gerber wouldn't have cared one way or the other, since he wasn't the actual creator of M-T, just the writer who had done most with that character or concept. What other likely candidates would there have been: relatively unpopular characters or titles that had perhaps been without an ongoing series for some time or were revived only on occasion?
Moore's decision to never work for Marvel was made in the mid-80s in the fallout of the Kirby original art brouhaha, and Shooter in particular was someone he vowed never to work with/for. So in order for this what if scenario to encompass his post-Swamp Thing for DC career, we would have to pretend that never happened. The most likely scenario of Moore to Marvel is if they had extended an offer to him before Berger recruited him to DC to work on Swamp Thing, which would have been on the strength of his Marvel UK work on CB and his 2000 AD stuff. -M
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Post by Rob Allen on Oct 7, 2022 0:54:45 GMT -5
Have we ever seen the Nose of Agamotto, or the guests of Hoggoth?
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Post by zaku on Oct 7, 2022 1:11:57 GMT -5
I really, really, really doubt Shooter would have given that freedom Moore would need. He probably would leave after the second issue of whatever he wrote. But I sincerely doubt he could have made the first one either.
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 7, 2022 4:22:28 GMT -5
Nobody needed Gerber's permission to work on Man-Thing. By the time Moore could've written it, the original book had been cancelled and Gerber was gone. That said, I agree that Moore and Shooter could never have worked together. Maybe if Moore wrote for the Epic line under Goodwin...
Cei-U! I summon the timeline!
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Post by MWGallaher on Oct 7, 2022 4:55:43 GMT -5
A research question: without looking it up, which American comic book adventure characters can you name who were adapted into movie serials? Not comic strip or radio characters who also appeared in comics (such as Green Hornet and Captain Midnight) but the ones who originated in comic books, like (and here's a couple of gimmes!) Superman and Captain Marvel? Again, from memory only, please, I've got a reason for asking!
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Post by Calidore on Oct 7, 2022 7:58:14 GMT -5
A research question: without looking it up, which American comic book adventure characters can you name who were adapted into movie serials? Not comic strip or radio characters who also appeared in comics (such as Green Hornet and Captain Midnight) but the ones who originated in comic books, like (and here's a couple of gimmes!) Superman and Captain Marvel? Again, from memory only, please, I've got a reason for asking!
Batman had the two, and there was at least one Captain America serial. Blanking on any more at the moment, but I just got up.
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