|
Post by Hoosier X on Jan 24, 2022 16:45:22 GMT -5
So instead of catching the killer through detective work, here Batman chooses to browbeat the suspect to get him to confess. Like any lazy, corrupt GCPD policeman. Your interpretation may be correct, but I don’t think it’s likely to improve my opinion of Loeb as a writer. He’s not good. Well, the guy he's browbeating is a small time minnow that he's intimidating to get information to land the big fish mob boss. I don't really see that characterisation as off base for the post-Crisis, grim and gritty Batman. I mean, The Long Halloween is set soon after Miller's Year One and I can't say I noticed all that much difference in Batman's characterisation between the two stories. I think this is maybe just part and parcel of "modern" grim and gritty Batman, no? If you’re fine with a Batman who’s so incompetent that he can’t stop a serial killer who is loose in Gotham for a full year, then I guess Jeph Loeb can be considered a good writer. The Long Halloween is just bad.
|
|
Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
|
Post by Confessor on Jan 24, 2022 17:39:44 GMT -5
Well, the guy he's browbeating is a small time minnow that he's intimidating to get information to land the big fish mob boss. I don't really see that characterisation as off base for the post-Crisis, grim and gritty Batman. I mean, The Long Halloween is set soon after Miller's Year One and I can't say I noticed all that much difference in Batman's characterisation between the two stories. I think this is maybe just part and parcel of "modern" grim and gritty Batman, no? If you’re fine with a Batman who’s so incompetent that he can’t stop a serial killer who is loose in Gotham for a full year, then I guess Jeph Loeb can be considered a good writer. The Long Halloween is just bad. Fair enough. Like I say, I've certainly read lots of better Batman stories. I was just saying that the characterisation of a more ruthless and less detective oriented Batman, which was your original complaint, seems like the norm to me in the post-Crisis era.
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jan 24, 2022 18:35:29 GMT -5
If you’re fine with a Batman who’s so incompetent that he can’t stop a serial killer who is loose in Gotham for a full year, then I guess Jeph Loeb can be considered a good writer. The Long Halloween is just bad. Fair enough. Like I say, I've certainly read lots of better Batman stories. I was just saying that the characterisation of a more ruthless and less detective oriented Batman, which was your original complaint, seems like the norm to me in the post-Crisis era. Putting threats and browbeating and bluffing ahead of detective work for Batman’s MO is bad writing no matter who does it. I don’t remember anything quite like this in Year One, which is another one I find way over-rated. Especially when you consider that even with the threats and the browbeating, the Holiday Killer was on the loose for a full year. This must be some alternate universe where Batman is incredibly ineffective.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2022 18:41:53 GMT -5
Fair enough. Like I say, I've certainly read lots of better Batman stories. I was just saying that the characterisation of a more ruthless and less detective oriented Batman, which was your original complaint, seems like the norm to me in the post-Crisis era. Putting threats and browbeating and bluffing ahead of detective work for Batman’s MO is bad writing no matter who does it. I don’t remember anything quite like this in Year One, which is another one I find way over-rated. Especially when you consider that even with the threats and the browbeating, the Holiday Killer was on the loose for a full year. This must be some alternate universe where Batman is incredibly ineffective. You mean the same Batman whose never been able to stop the Joker from killing Gothamites by the hundreds if not thousands since Batman #1 and never found a way to keep him off the streets after beating the tar out of him (rahter than following other investigative options to prevent his killings despite knowing the Joker will escape to kill again and again no matter how many times he puts him in custody and isn't effective enough to be preventative rather than reactionary despite having billions in resources at his disposal? Yeah, tom e an ineffective Batman is much more in character than an effective one who has no long term vision and is consistently reacting in the short teem rather than being an effective deterrent to crime in Gotham. For me, the appeal of Long Halloween has been the visual storytelling of Tim Sale. I am no fan of Loeb's writing. Unfortunately. Sale has often worked with Loeb, so you have to put up with Loeb's writing to experience Sale's mastery of the comic form. -M
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jan 24, 2022 20:33:18 GMT -5
Yeah. That Batman.
The Joker has been way out of control for a long time. He hasn’t been more than sporadically interesting for decades.
There’s been lots of bad writing on Batman for the last thirty years.
|
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,946
|
Post by Crimebuster on Jan 25, 2022 0:49:47 GMT -5
I just used some of the money from downgrading my Avengers 8 to purchase one of my big, big grail books in an auction. Very excited! As soon as I get it there will be many photos and a video as it completes a very difficult set of comics.
Hurray!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2022 10:44:41 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Jan 26, 2022 12:07:08 GMT -5
That brings back memories. I hadn’t been buying comics regularly for more than a few months when I saw the ad for Son of Origins in all the Marvels that month. I had to have that! Hell yeah!
I think I cut the coupon out of a Marvel reprint comic and got my mom to write a check for it.
And when it came in the mail - Oh what a glorious day!
I think the most amazing thing in that book is the panel from Avengers #1 where the Hulk is dressed in a clown suit and juggling an elephant, a horse and a seal. God knows how!
And those bright colors on those white pages! You could almost read it in the dark!
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Jan 26, 2022 13:32:41 GMT -5
That brings back memories. I hadn’t been buying comics regularly for more than a few months when I saw the ad for Son of Origins in all the Marvels that month. I had to have that! Hell yeah! I think I cut the coupon out of a Marvel reprint comic and got my mom to write a check for it. And when it came in the mail - Oh what a glorious day! I think the most amazing thing in that book is the panel from Avengers #1 where the Hulk is dressed in a clown suit and juggling an elephant, a horse and a seal. God knows how! And those bright colors on those white pages! You could almost read it in the dark! Nice memory.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2022 14:52:56 GMT -5
Love those DC Special series books....that Flash book reminded me I still have to get a couple of those 80 pagers...Wonder Woman is one of them....
|
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,946
|
Post by Crimebuster on Jan 27, 2022 12:18:45 GMT -5
I ended up selling the Mad #2, as I expected, and bought this with the money for an almost even swap.
|
|
|
Post by MDG on Jan 27, 2022 14:05:58 GMT -5
I ended up selling the Mad #2, as I expected, and bought this with the money for an almost even swap. Are you gonna unseal that one from the slab? It's relatively easy to rad the stories in MAD #2, but I'm guessing the stories in that book haven't been reprinted as much.
|
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,946
|
Post by Crimebuster on Jan 27, 2022 16:39:21 GMT -5
I ended up selling the Mad #2, as I expected, and bought this with the money for an almost even swap. Are you gonna unseal that one from the slab? It's relatively easy to rad the stories in MAD #2, but I'm guessing the stories in that book haven't been reprinted as much. I may at some point. I have probably 50 other Archie issues i haven't read yet, though, so I'll probably read those before I crack this open, and who knows how long that will be.
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 27, 2022 16:42:10 GMT -5
Are you gonna unseal that one from the slab? It's relatively easy to rad the stories in MAD #2, but I'm guessing the stories in that book haven't been reprinted as much. I may at some point. I have probably 50 other Archie issues i haven't read yet, though, so I'll probably read those before I crack this open, and who knows how long that will be. I feel like it can't take that long to read 50 issues of Archie.
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Jan 27, 2022 18:33:43 GMT -5
I may at some point. I have probably 50 other Archie issues i haven't read yet, though, so I'll probably read those before I crack this open, and who knows how long that will be. I feel like it can't take that long to read 50 issues of Archie. Right ??
|
|