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Post by tonebone on May 5, 2022 14:45:23 GMT -5
I recently picked up the Fantastic Four Omnibus Vol. 4. It's great to read the final leg of the Lee/Kirby run and to see how the title transitioned after Kirby. But who on earth gave the green light to this revised spine design?? That is an absolute pet peeve of mine. Like it's impossible to keep them the same, when they have been recycling the SAME design for these omnibi for ten or more years. But, oh no, let's change ONE thing on the spine, ten years in, just to ruin the set. Marvel has always had terrible, boring design... just look at those spines... They could just as easily be bound volumes of the New York Times. DC on the other hand, has had some great book design, especially of late. They make great use of the original comics art, creative typography, spot colors and spot varnishes, different artwork on the book cover than the dust jacket, etc. I have always admired the design work from Fantagraphics, and on their Popeye set, I have a sneaking suspicion that someone forgot to include the yellow band at the top of volume 2 (the "O" volume)... so they subsequently left it off of every other one, adding to the quirkiness of the design of the set. What a great solution! We'll just overlook the fact that the artwork on the "P" volume is smaller...
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2022 15:12:40 GMT -5
It's so they can get completists and OCD collectors who care about trade dress to rebuy volumes 1-3 with the new design so they either have them all and they all match. It's simply the way the direct market exploits the personality quirks of collectors to survive since there is not a large enough customer base for it to really be viable. If you have a small customer base, you need to get them to buy everything or rebuy the same material over and over. -M Interesting notion. I wonder what kind of market research would lead them to such a conclusion. That is an absolute pet peeve of mine. Like it's impossible to keep them the same, when they have been recycling the SAME design for these omnibi for ten or more years. But, oh no, let's change ONE thing on the spine, ten years in, just to ruin the set. Marvel has always had terrible, boring design... just look at those spines... They could just as easily be bound volumes of the New York Times. DC on the other hand, has had some great book design, especially of late. They make great use of the original comics art, creative typography, spot colors and spot varnishes, different artwork on the book cover than the dust jacket, etc. I have always admired the design work from Fantagraphics, and on their Popeye set, I have a sneaking suspicion that someone forgot to include the yellow band at the top of volume 2 (the "O" volume)... so they subsequently left it off of every other one, adding to the quirkiness of the design of the set. What a great solution! We'll just overlook the fact that the artwork on the "P" volume is smaller... The fact that is bothers multiple people here enough to post about it is enough to indicate that it matters to the customer base. The questions is does it matter enough for people to rebuy it. The fact they pretty much have constant sell throughs of print runs new editions with minor alterations to trade dress which sell to the same retail accounts and have the same customer bases because it is pretty much a zero growth market and that such editions continue to sell through their print runs in the mass market as well is a pretty indication that it is a sound strategy, they will find enough new customers buying for the first time and old customer are buying the same edition with minor tweaks to keep new printings viable for certain collections (usually those with higher msrp that have higher profit margins that makes it worthwhile to go back to print on such as omnibi). If you also consider how many times they repackage the same material in different editions to sell to the same customer base and they find enough repeat buyers to keep putting that same material out in different editions( -how many different ways has Marvel packaged AF 15 and ASM 1-10 since 2000?- Masterworks HC, Masterworks softcover, Masterworks direct edition cover, masterworks standard edition, Essentials, Essentials again with different trade dress, now 3 different printings of the omnibus, the Taschen edition and more I am probably forgetting)which are sold through the same direct market distribution channels to the same retails who have relatively the same shrinking customer base yet each edition continues to sell well enough to merit its publication. They don' need market research to tell them it's viable, they only have to listen to the buying habits of their customers and what their wallets are saying to know it works and it's a successful strategy no matter what complaints "fans" post online or in social media. I am tired of repeating the same aphorism, but this is yet another case of consumer buying habits determining publication strategy. If new editions with minor tweak did not continue to sell through at acceptable rates, they wouldn't continue to produce them. You don't need the spines to match to have an enjoyable reading experience. The look of the spine has absolutely no impact on the content of the book. But the fact that collectors continue to comment on those variations and spend more money to have the uniform design is all the incentive they need to continue doing it to capitalize on selling the same product to consumers multiple times an increasing revenue doing so. Not everyone who comments on the issue rebuys, but a significant enough portion of them do to make it a viable revenue stream to keep pursuing. -M
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Post by badwolf on May 5, 2022 15:26:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure that mentioning an annoyance on a comics forum equates to a willingness to spend $100 again to get a matching jacket.
I agree that DC has done a much better job with their book design. They even changed their somewhat bland Bronze Age volumes to a new design that it much better looking. The only Marvel omnibuses that I think look nice and artful are the Frank Miller Daredevil and Elektra volumes.
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Post by Hoosier X on May 5, 2022 15:36:18 GMT -5
I bought Detective Comics #25 today.
March 1939.
It’s practically a museum piece.
I should get it in the mail next week.
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Post by badwolf on May 5, 2022 15:42:36 GMT -5
For the first time in a few years I visited a particular mall comic shop today and was disappointed. I know you are thinking "mall store, what did you expect?" but I actually do remember picking up a bunch of good stuff there before. Nearly everything in the back issue boxes was modern. Virtually nothing bronze age or earlier. Pretty disorganized too. I did pick up Red Sonja #12 (Marvel). Roy Thomas & John Buscema with a Frank Brunner cover. It wasn't until I left the store I noticed a long crease down the middle of the front cover. Hmm maybe that's why the store was so dimly lit. It's not a "sharp" crease and could probably be ironed out if I knew how to do that, but it's still annoying.
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Post by Mister Spaceman on May 5, 2022 15:50:23 GMT -5
Interesting notion. I wonder what kind of market research would lead them to such a conclusion. The fact that is bothers multiple people here enough to post about it is enough to indicate that it matters to the customer base. A handful of people grousing on a classic comics forum isn't the same as market research that would tell a publisher that this is a profitable strategy. As the original grouser here, I have zero plans to repurchase any of my Marvel omnibus editions that don't match the spine design. I just wanted to mildly complain about what I see as careless disregard for such details.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 5, 2022 16:19:53 GMT -5
I agree with badwolf and Mr. spaceman. This forum was made to discuss the minutia of the hobby. Something has to have a real special difference in order for a fan to rebuy it in another format. I have the original JLA/ Avengers mini and only rebought it because it was in the oversized omnibus HC with a dust jacket. And even then , I paid about 50% of the price.
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Post by Ozymandias on May 5, 2022 16:28:39 GMT -5
You don't need the spines to match to have an enjoyable reading experience. The look of the spine has absolutely no impact on the content of the book. But the fact that collectors continue to comment on those variations and spend more money to have the uniform design is all the incentive they need to continue doing it to capitalize on selling the same product to consumers multiple times an increasing revenue doing so. Not everyone who comments on the issue rebuys, but a significant enough portion of them do to make it a viable revenue stream to keep pursuing. -M Guilty here. I bought the Sandman TPBs as they came out, then sold them in 2004 to buy this ones:
It's true they read the same, but I look at the spine much more often that inside the bags.
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Post by tartanphantom on May 5, 2022 17:16:47 GMT -5
Have fun... I'll stick to my vintage floppies. To each, his own.
Not saying that I don't have some trade & hardcover editions, but most of those were purchased either at Ollie's or a 2nd-hand bookstore. The only archive "set" that I have "complete" is the Spirit Archives, and my wife purchased those for me as an already-completed set.
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Post by dbutler69 on May 5, 2022 18:16:55 GMT -5
I bought Detective Comics #25 today. March 1939. It’s practically a museum piece. I should get it in the mail next week. Wow, very exciting!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2022 18:33:46 GMT -5
The fact that is bothers multiple people here enough to post about it is enough to indicate that it matters to the customer base. A handful of people grousing on a classic comics forum isn't the same as market research that would tell a publisher that this is a profitable strategy. As the original grouser here, I have zero plans to repurchase any of my Marvel omnibus editions that don't match the spine design. I just wanted to mildly complain about what I see as careless disregard for such details. You may not, and I acknowledged that, but a significant portion of people who are bothered by it do. The market research is not the forums. The market research is the invoices form their retail partners and their sell through reports showing that multiple editions of the same content keep selling though in the direct market where there is little to no growth and little to no turnover in the customer base who is buying the products sold there. It's not new customers coming in buying new editions sold in the direct market. It is being sold to the same customer base who was buying it the last time a new edition of the same material was sold. You don't need to waste money on marketing research when your sales reports confirm the effectiveness of your sales strategy. There does not seem to be a major market out there for Marvel collections in the mass market. If you look at the long tail from the Bookscan reports Brian Hibbs had done for the last two decades, Marvel has never been a major presence in the mass market. They do however, dominate the direct market sales, so they tailor their selling strategy to maximize sales to direct market customers to achieve maximum sell through which maximizes margins. In that market, with a static customer base, multiple collections, both those in new formats and in the same formats with minor tweaks to the trade dress, keep achieving the sell throughs they need. If new customers are not coming in, and the old customers previously bought the collections in other formats/trade dresses, who is buying these new editions then? Now, they may be buying new editions and then selling old editions off in the secondary market to get their money back, but Marvel doesn't care about that as long as their new product is selling to the customer base. But the question then is who is the customer base on the secondary market? Who would rather pay inflated collector's prices for an older edition than buy a new edition except someone who is trying to complete the run of a particular edition and missed it-i.e. a collector to who, trade dress matters or a completionist who has to have it all. Again it's not every collector, but there are enough that such editions remain economically viable for Marvel despite their not being much of a market for it in the mass market. You may think such customers have more money than sense (and I would tend to agree), but things like trade dress matter to collectors as much if not more than content in a lot of cases. If it didn't collectors on forums like this would not continually bring up matters of trade dress, but they do. It matters enough to a lot to discuss, it matters enough to some to open their wallets and address it. Again, not all, but enough. But it's not unique to comics, Book publishers change up cover art and formats often as well, and part of that is to achieve repeat sales to the same customers as much as it is to make the art relevant to the current tastes of the consumer base. But again, its thinking of comics in terms of a business and not a hobby or an art form, and a lot of collectors find that distasteful and try to ignore/deny the business motivations behind the objects of their passion. -M
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2022 19:16:23 GMT -5
Something has to have a real special difference in order for a fan to rebuy it in another format.
I have the *hots* for the Punisher. So when I get a deluxe HC, still wrapped in plastic, for a giveaway price of just over $7 inclusive of shipping....I will grab it. Even if I have all the original comics. This was a a steal.....
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Post by Icctrombone on May 5, 2022 20:58:12 GMT -5
There’s that too. A great bargain will get me to buy another format.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,069
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Post by Confessor on May 5, 2022 21:06:26 GMT -5
Hey, Mister Spaceman ("won't you please take me along...") and badwolf, I misspoke earlier. I just checked my first print editions of the Fantastic Four omnibuses and, actually, the trade dress/formatting of the spines has changed every time. Sometimes only subtly, but twice not so subtly... Have fun... I'll stick to my vintage floppies. To each, his own. Who the heck can afford the earliest issues of FF?!! Jeez, spot the rich kid!
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Post by Hoosier X on May 5, 2022 22:48:10 GMT -5
I bought Detective Comics #25 today. March 1939. It’s practically a museum piece. I should get it in the mail next week. Wow, very exciting! It’s the most I’ve ever spent on a comic ... by a lot! I won’t be getting any other old comics for a while! I might work on 1980s Wonder Woman. My Detective Comics #25 is slabbed! So I’ll be asking advice on the best way to get the slab off without damaging the artifact. Then I’ll read it a few times. And then I’ll get it slabbed again.
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