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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 19, 2014 13:25:41 GMT -5
I had given up on Strangehaven. Good to hear it might be back.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 13:39:05 GMT -5
I was still in law school when I bought the first issue. My youngest son hadn't even been born yet. He's managed 33 issues in 15 years. But the first half dozen or so came out with some regularity. But he's now averaging one every year or so. Worth the wait...but it's a LONG wait. Even the Trojan War only took 9 years!!!!
Like I said, I just started reading Age of Bronze, but my book like that is Jason Lutes' Berlin. I believe it's lasted longer than the Weimar Republic at this point. Lutes does teach at CCS in Vermont with the likes of James Sturm and Steve Bissette, and they've become a go-to school for more alternative cartoonists lately.
Oh, and Strangehaven, but I think that's coming back soon. (I believe there may have been a short story in the new A1 Annual.)
All of these are books I discovered in the late 90s early 2000s and are all ones I am still waiting on the end of the story for, though I am missing a few issues of each that came out during my hiatus from comics. As long as the wait is, trying to find them as back issues takes even longer. -M |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 19, 2014 15:03:32 GMT -5
Some synchronicity going on here with you guys talking about Eric Shanower, I've just read the first Nexus omnibus, and noticed his credits for inking a few of these early issues.
Actually Nexus is an interesting candidate for this thread. I've been talking up story over visuals (in general), over a period of time of course, but I think that personally Nexus is an exemption to the rule. Dont get me wrong, I love the story Mike Baron tells here. It doesnt rush things, it doesnt try to tell all the secrets at once, the protagonist is NICE (with a capital NICE) not Grim,and there is an extremely rich and rewarding supporting cast, maybe the best cast for an independent book I've encountered. All this in a First Comics book.
BUT
Steve Rude man. This guy. Like I knowed he was a good drawer, but dayum man. Its cool seeing the genesis of his work, so very quickly going from promising with potential, to OMFG within the space of about 6 issues. Those early B&W books probably took a lot longer to do and get out, but after 2 or 3 colour books he hit his straps and was pushing the envelope. God there must have been some pros back then crapping themselves at what he could do.
Has this man ever got the recognition he deserves?
So I would have to admit that as much as I love the story here, I would be over it like a night-club root if there wasnt a word on the page.
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Post by fanboystranger on Nov 19, 2014 17:08:33 GMT -5
Some synchronicity going on here with you guys talking about Eric Shanower, I've just read the first Nexus omnibus, and noticed his credits for inking a few of these early issues. Actually Nexus is an interesting candidate for this thread. I've been talking up story over visuals (in general), over a period of time of course, but I think that personally Nexus is an exemption to the rule. Dont get me wrong, I love the story Mike Baron tells here. It doesnt rush things, it doesnt try to tell all the secrets at once, the protagonist is NICE (with a capital NICE) not Grim,and there is an extremely rich and rewarding supporting cast, maybe the best cast for an independent book I've encountered. All this in a First Comics book. BUT Steve Rude man. This guy. Like I knowed he was a good drawer, but dayum man. Its cool seeing the genesis of his work, so very quickly going from promising with potential, to OMFG within the space of about 6 issues. Those early B&W books probably took a lot longer to do and get out, but after 2 or 3 colour books he hit his straps and was pushing the envelope. God there must have been some pros back then crapping themselves at what he could do. Has this man ever got the recognition he deserves? So I would have to admit that as much as I love the story here, I would be over it like a night-club root if there wasnt a word on the page. Obviously, Rude is the soul of Nexus, but it was blessed with other exceptional artists. Paul Smith, for example, was actually the regular artist around issue 50, and Steve Rude would come in to be an issue or two. (I'd argue it's Paul's best work, but there's The Golden Age and Uncanny X-Men to contend with.) Some of the other "fill-in" artists included Mike Mignola, Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez, and Rick Veitch, plus guys who would bloom a decade later like Steve Epting. Baron had pretty good luck with artists on Nexus. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 19, 2014 17:51:56 GMT -5
Some synchronicity going on here with you guys talking about Eric Shanower, I've just read the first Nexus omnibus, and noticed his credits for inking a few of these early issues. Actually Nexus is an interesting candidate for this thread. I've been talking up story over visuals (in general), over a period of time of course, but I think that personally Nexus is an exemption to the rule. Dont get me wrong, I love the story Mike Baron tells here. It doesnt rush things, it doesnt try to tell all the secrets at once, the protagonist is NICE (with a capital NICE) not Grim,and there is an extremely rich and rewarding supporting cast, maybe the best cast for an independent book I've encountered. All this in a First Comics book. BUT Steve Rude man. This guy. Like I knowed he was a good drawer, but dayum man. Its cool seeing the genesis of his work, so very quickly going from promising with potential, to OMFG within the space of about 6 issues. Those early B&W books probably took a lot longer to do and get out, but after 2 or 3 colour books he hit his straps and was pushing the envelope. God there must have been some pros back then crapping themselves at what he could do. Has this man ever got the recognition he deserves? So I would have to admit that as much as I love the story here, I would be over it like a night-club root if there wasnt a word on the page. Obviously, Rude is the soul of Nexus, but it was blessed with other exceptional artists. Paul Smith, for example, was actually the regular artist around issue 50, and Steve Rude would come in to be an issue or two. (I'd argue it's Paul's best work, but there's The Golden Age and Uncanny X-Men to contend with.) Some of the other "fill-in" artists included Mike Mignola, Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez, and Rick Veitch, plus guys who would bloom a decade later like Steve Epting. Baron had pretty good luck with artists on Nexus. There was a total symbiotic relationship between the two. The art didn't just duplicate the dialogue. There was a lot going on in those pages. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Nov 19, 2014 18:00:32 GMT -5
Obviously, Rude is the soul of Nexus, but it was blessed with other exceptional artists. Paul Smith, for example, was actually the regular artist around issue 50, and Steve Rude would come in to be an issue or two. (I'd argue it's Paul's best work, but there's The Golden Age and Uncanny X-Men to contend with.) Some of the other "fill-in" artists included Mike Mignola, Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez, and Rick Veitch, plus guys who would bloom a decade later like Steve Epting. Baron had pretty good luck with artists on Nexus. There was a total symbiotic relationship between the two. The art didn't just duplicate the dialogue. There was a lot going on in those pages. I completely agree. Or at least as far as the main story.
I think things fell apart a bit with a lot of the backups, which tended to be done by inexperienced artists. Of course, a lot of them weren't actually written by Baron, so perhaps it's that Baron's scripting style that excels at guiding the artist, which is praise that I've often heard directed towards Mike and his work.
In any event, Nexus, at its best, was the perfect marriage between writer and artist.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 19, 2014 22:12:04 GMT -5
There was a total symbiotic relationship between the two. The art didn't just duplicate the dialogue. There was a lot going on in those pages.
I think things fell apart a bit with a lot of the backups, which tended to be done by inexperienced artists. Of course, a lot of them weren't actually written by Baron, so perhaps it's that Baron's scripting style that excels at guiding the artist, which is praise that I've often heard directed towards Mike and his work.
In any event, Nexus, at its best, was the perfect marriage between writer and artist.
Absolutely right IMHO, its clear they bought out the best in each other, and while the book as a whole may have been great, I believe Rudes work was in another realm altogether. I love his experimentation with angles, negative space, and other techniques which experienced pro's struggle to master, and he was killing it within 6 issues. Paul Smith is cool, and a good fit here, and it will be interesting to see early Epting, whose work in the last 15-20 years I like a lot, but "the Dude" they aint. |
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Post by berkley on Nov 20, 2014 0:01:01 GMT -5
I appreciate the research and painstaking effort Shanower puts into Age of Bronze, but for me it's missing something - all the fire and energy I find in the Iliad, all the stark power of Greek myth, are absent.
In fairness, that's probably just a reflection of his interests - he seems to be trying to imagine what the bronze-age world might actually have been like, and the actors and incidents that gave rise to the legend we know today, rather than capture the larger than life characters and events of that legend. An interesting project, but every time I look at it, it all feels a little humdrum and small to me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2014 0:19:30 GMT -5
His stated goal is to try to tell the story of the Trojan war based on what archaeological evidence of the time tells us about the civilization that would have inhabited Troy and to encompass all the traditions of stories about the war, including not just the mythology but all the Greek dramas as well, so it is not a retelling of the Iliad, it is a synthesis of the body of evidence and story we have of the events of the Trojan war. He discusses it at length in the letters columns of the earlier issues and also includes discussions of new archaeological finds and/or theories that are informing his interpretations of events. Thus his Trojans are based on Hittite civilization as a lot of current archaeological thinking (or the current thinking when the series started at least, I am out of touch with where current theories are 10 years later) was putting forth as the most likely scenario.
-M
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Post by badwolf on Nov 21, 2014 12:44:48 GMT -5
I have to say the art carries heavier weight for me. Story is important, but comics are a visual medium and that's what distinguishes it from regular books (which I also read avidly.)
There are, of course, exceptions. I've suffered Humberto Ramos' art because Mike Carey was writing.
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 21, 2014 12:58:10 GMT -5
I bought the Neal Adams Odyssey Batman run although the writing was terrible. I didn't but it at full price, though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2014 0:34:59 GMT -5
For me it is ALWAYS the art first...Neal Adams, Jim Aparo, John Byrne, George Perez, Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, Alan Davis, etc. I don't care how great the story is, if the art isn't impressive then I will not read it.
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