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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 3, 2022 14:01:39 GMT -5
I must confess, I have no real interest in this and not because of anything I see in the trailer. I skipped the comic stuff because I was tired of conspiracy theories and conspiracy plots almost 2 decades ago. There was a time, when I kind of explored a lot of that, back when JFK was in theaters; but, you quickly learn that most writings about such things have massive leaps in logic and little to no concrete evidence of anything. As a dramatic plot, it got pretty cliched, pretty darn early. You always get a ridiculously complex conspiracy, that no one knows anything about. Anything that complex will have too many people involved to keep it quiet. Look at events during the War on Terror, for example. Stories of 'extraordinary rendition" hit the media pretty darn quickly and this was carried out by the CIA and other agencies, with national security restrictions and draconian language in the Patriot Act to protect them. Meanwhile, we are expected to believe things like the United Nations is secretly introducing mind control agents via immunizations or other delivery methods to take over the country. The scale of such a thing would literally make it impossible to happen.
On a dramatic front, it seems like Hollywood and publishing went nuts with conspiracy plots about the time that the internet became a major thing in society, though such things had been there before. It just seemed that the magnitude grew. The success of The Da Vinci Code, as a novel certainly became a big factor, despite being just a horribly badly written thriller, never mind the ridiculous ideas it presented as being fact, when, by definition, the hero is interpreting symbols, which means it can only be supposition. Anyway, it gets a movie deal, with major names attached and we have a whole slew of conspiracy movies and tv, books and comics seems to go nuts with the idea, because they can use shock value to cover up poor plotting. Max Lord kills Ted Kord, SHIELD is actually a secret society, dating back centuries, every bad story was a skrull impersonator, etc. Hell, even before that we had the mess that was the Millennium crossover event, where everyone was a Manhunter, but no one of any consequence, so we could introduce a new set of poorly developed characters to ignore, almost immediately.
When I first heard about the comic Secret Invasion, I immediately thought of the Simpson's Treehouse of Horror episode with Lucy Lawless, as Xena, with The Collector.
It just seemed like lazy writing and a cheap excuse to hit a reboot button, without doing any substantive work. That was soon followed by the whole Spider-Man Mephisto nonsense.
I don't mind a good, well written conspiracy or paranoid thriller; but, they are rare. I love things like The Manchurian Candidate, Seven Days in May, Three Days of the Condor, The Boys From Brazil. For the most part, those are tightly plotted thrillers, with logical, if somewhat fanciful progressions and reasonable exposures. I don't mind an alien invasion thing, when done well, like the original V mini-series. It was a metaphor for the rise of fascism, which fell upon deaf minds, as recent global political events seem to indicate. Again, good writing and attention to detail is a central feature.
I just kind of feel burnt out by too many bad ideas and badly executed conspiracy dramas to muster enough energy to give this a chance, despite liking Samuel L Jackson and the Nick Fury character. I also don't hold much faith in any MCU project being that tightly plotted, based on their track record. The films and some of the tv have been entertaining; but, the writing and plotting has largely been formulaic and cliched and I don't think it points towards this getting much better work than other projects.
The comment section of this clip, on youtube is much more enthusiastic; but, I tend to find that my tastes and the current generation of the general public don't cross paths, often. Plus, they keep walking on my lawn, listening to their hippety-hop music, drinking caramel macchiatos and IMing their friend two feet away, while consuming Tide Pods.
Get a haircut, hippy!
What? No, I don't want my medicine....get away from me wi........................................
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............................................................
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Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 6, 2022 7:56:02 GMT -5
It's Samuel Jackson centered so I'm pretty much a lock.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 7, 2022 8:33:07 GMT -5
Am I allowed to both agree I don't like conspiracy theory shows and be cautiously optimistic that Samuel Jackson might be awesome?
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 11, 2022 21:31:08 GMT -5
Am I allowed to both agree I don't like conspiracy theory shows and be cautiously optimistic that Samuel Jackson might be awesome? It's possible...... |
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Post by berkley on Nov 11, 2022 22:41:01 GMT -5
Secret Invasion - was that the Skrulls impersonating everybody? Not the greatest story idea, I remember thinking when I heard about it in the comics, even by the low standards of Marvel/DC comics "events". Maybe they can do something with it for the tv series but right now I don't feel too tempted to try this one.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 12, 2022 18:20:02 GMT -5
Secret Invasion - was that the Skrulls impersonating everybody? Not the greatest story idea, I remember thinking when I heard about it in the comics, even by the low standards of Marvel/DC comics "events". Maybe they can do something with it for the tv series but right now I don't feel too tempted to try this one. yes...also used to bring a whole bunch of previously 'dead' characters back (the 'dead' person was the skrull). It aggravated me alot because it kinda invalidated one of my favorite stories (Lost in Space Time in WCA) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2023 23:09:28 GMT -5
New trailer dropped today. Show premieres June 21...  -M |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 3, 2023 6:34:57 GMT -5
Looks interesting to me, almost makes me wonder why they didn't go with this as a film instead of a show.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 12, 2023 21:30:28 GMT -5
Looks interesting to me, almost makes me wonder why they didn't go with this as a film instead of a show. Probably no faith in anything not headlined by a superhero. They may also be trying to shoehorn in too much to work in one film. A mini-series does let you layer the plot better, assuming the writing is anywhere near the level of the Russos and the Cap films they did. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 10, 2023 19:29:22 GMT -5
I saw the first episode today, and it was surprisingly better than I expected (despite having watched its Pitch Meeting version beforehand). It doesn't reinvent anything, but was fine as a thriller in which the good guys must stop faceless terrorists from killing civilians. I liked Olivia Colman's character. That being said, and making allowance for the fact that people (or Skrulls) are often irrational, I have a big problem with the villains' motivation. I don't think I'll spoil anything but saying that just as in the comics, some Skrulls want to take over the Earth. In the MCU, it's because their species has been all but wiped out by the Skrulls in the 1990s, and they're tired of waiting for a new home. However... (minor plot points discussed) {Spoiler: Click to show} why can't we just all get along? There are at best a few hundred or a few thousand Skrulls on Earth. What's more, many of them are now hiding in abandoned nuclear sites because they're not affected by radioactivity. Why can't they just live there? They're not even on prime Norwegian real estate the way the Asgardians are; they're in radioactive forests that no human wants to inhabit anyway. Why don't we let them have their colony right there, where they're causing no harm and can contribute to the world's development? Maybe it will be made clearer later on, or we'll learn why the surviving Skrulls can't go to one of the umpteen planets visited in the Guardians of the Galaxy films. In the comics, they insisted on settling Earth for religious reasons; here, it just seems to be a plot-mandated necessity. The ending upset me, too. {Spoiler: Click to show}
That kind of "motivating" plot twist was unnecessary. There were much better things to do with that character. It felt like one of those comics where a new writer decides to kill a Hawkeye or an Ant-Man just to show that things just got serious, even though that was already clear.
Temporary grade: B minus, roughly at the level of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier or the Black Widow movie. |
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Aug 10, 2023 20:00:16 GMT -5
Good point on the first spoiler. I was thinking along the same lines as I was watching.
Yeah, another "eh, it was ok, I guess" effort from the MCU, which has been mostly the case since the beginning of 2022. Not particularly excited for what's coming up either
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 13, 2023 22:58:57 GMT -5
Still haven't watched it; but, the above reaction has been my general reaction to much of the MCU. It's okay; entertaining enough while you are watching, but I'm not clamoring to see it again. A lot of Marvel's comics were like that, over the years; good enough while I read the issue; but I didn't re-read it very often.
I think with both the movies and the tv shows, I watch them and say, it's okay, or that part was good, but other parts I'm just, meh. I usually find that the comics were better, because they had more room to play with, or an unlimited effects budget, or a better writer, or whatever. I think the tv format allows for more intricate plots; but, I don't think they have really taken advantage of that the way that some of the DC-oriented shows have, though even they are a mixed bag. I liked the flashback stuff in the first season of Arrow, but not the modern set up. In fact, the flashback stuff almost always had better plots, apart from Deathstroke, which was where I kind of stopped watching. Flash I just couldn't sustain interest in the first season and have mostly just skimmed a few clips of the Crisis crossover. Supergirl was okay, and I liked Melissa Benoist; but, again, the episodes just didn't hold my interest enough. It didn't help that the target audience was younger and those elements were often where they were losing me. That said, they were doing way better than even the Nolan Batman films.
When it comes to superhero stuff, I think comic books do it far better than any other medium, with animation a closer second. From there, it gets very uneven. There have been just a select few comic book-based films that I thought were just pure great cinema, regardless of how well they handled the comic material. The Donner Superman, the first Hellboy. The Rocketeer was close. Things like Ghost World and American Splendor, The Crow. The Tick cartoon and the Turtles captured what was great about the source material and built upon it. As for comic adaptations, animation has done it the best, because it is the closest match to the experience of the comic.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 23, 2023 9:54:06 GMT -5
Finished the series yesterday, and it was overall much better than I expected (which is partly due to very low expectations, I must admit). No surprising twist, really; heroes are good, villains are bad, politicians are clueless and major crisies can be resolved with a super-powered fistfight... This was very close to an actual comic-book plot, and I enjoyed it for exactly that reason. Sonya Falsworth is a great addition to the MCU. Her no-nonsense yet unsettlingly cheerful demeanour is a breath of fresh air when everyone else looks depressed and serious. She also practices what I wish most action heroes would in that kind of film or series : {Spoiler: Click to show}
shooting the bad guy's kneecap off first, and talking later! The ending is more than open-ended; it sets up two political situations that just demand a future resolution. The American president's statement (not about trade tariffs, as you can guess) is clearly not going to be endorsed by other countries, including close allies; will that lead to a new competition between nations, as is strongly suggested? And what of the Kree, will they play a more active role in future installments? The series' faults are undeniable, but I give it a pass because I was entertained anyway. Just to name one, I can't imagine anyone refusing to call in super-heroes for help when facing the end of the world just because "we can't always rely on them and this is personal". I started watching the show thinking "I'll give it a chance and if it fails to grab me I'll stop", and ended up enjoying the end more than the beginning; its overall mark goes from B minus to B. |
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Post by driver1980 on Aug 24, 2023 7:47:56 GMT -5
I think with both the movies and the tv shows, I watch them and say, it's okay, or that part was good, but other parts I'm just, meh. Same here. Much like WWF/WWE PPVs since 1995, the regularity of MCU shows/movies makes me feel I’m having too much of a good thing - and Secret Invasion was no exception. I almost miss the pre-MCU days (thinking 90s/late 80s) where we got a movie, TV or theatrical, once every few years. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 24, 2023 10:51:35 GMT -5
I think with both the movies and the tv shows, I watch them and say, it's okay, or that part was good, but other parts I'm just, meh. Same here. Much like WWF/WWE PPVs since 1995, the regularity of MCU shows/movies makes me feel I’m having too much of a good thing - and Secret Invasion was no exception. I almost miss the pre-MCU days (thinking 90s/late 80s) where we got a movie, TV or theatrical, once every few years. My experience isn't "too much of a good thing;" more the same formula repeated over and over again and the formula wasn't that deep, to start with. |
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