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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2023 15:38:02 GMT -5
Sue chose to allow Malice to merge with her that second time because she was in a desperate situation and thought the combined power might be her only hope. I still think it's silly writing in either case, clearly bad creators trying to "fanboy" it in the worst sense of the word.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 23, 2023 16:31:50 GMT -5
My opinion on Aquaman is that the Batman Brave and the Bold cartoon had the best iteration ever. Larger than life, epic, powerful, funny as heck, but absolutely no joke as a hero. And he rocked the orange and green to boot.  By far the best incarnation of that character. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 23, 2023 20:42:18 GMT -5
In 1994 Peter David took over writing Aquaman and this happened -  With a character that historically can't keep a series going , I guess DC felt anything goes. He lasted quite a few years with a hook for a hand. I really liked that run at the time.. it was one of my first pull list items. I started re-reading it not too long ago, and it didn't age well |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2023 21:22:08 GMT -5
Would have never imagined Aquaman guzzling down whiskey but I have to admit I kinda like it....a lot....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2023 14:08:33 GMT -5
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Post by zaku on Nov 24, 2023 18:22:47 GMT -5
I don't know if I would put Ms. Marvel's story with the others. In other cases, the authors knew what they were doing. In Ms. Marvel's case people had to explain to them as if they were 5 year olds that she had been actually raped and her Avengers "friends" being perfectly ok with that was atrocious. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2023 19:07:14 GMT -5
When I think "how could this happen", this is the stuff that comes to mind: I don't know if I would put Ms. Marvel's story with the others. In other cases, the authors knew what they were doing. In Ms. Marvel's case people had to explain to them as if they were 5 year olds that she had been actually raped and her Avengers "friends" being perfectly ok with that was atrocious. I agree the Ms. Marvel story was by far the most heinous example of clueless writing, but portraying the killing of a baby in mainstream superhero comics is NOT ok in my book. And as a parent myself, I can't tell you how much that Aquaman disaster has sat worse with me over the years. The Gwen thing I'm still just bitter about. Same with "Hank the wife-beater", completely destroyed the character. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Nov 24, 2023 20:03:14 GMT -5
The Gwen thing I'm still just bitter about. Dying in such a tragic way, with Spider-Man unable to save her despite all his powers, is probably the most interesting thing that ever happened with Gwen's character. And I say that as a big, big Gwen Stacy fan. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2023 20:11:31 GMT -5
The Gwen thing I'm still just bitter about. Dying in such a tragic way, with Spider-Man unable to save her despite all his powers, is probably the most interesting thing that ever happened with Gwen's character. And I say that as a big, big Gwen Stacy fan. This is probably a YMMV kind of topic, I'm more of a "happily ever after" guy. I would rather they had grown old together, like Earth-2 Superman was portrayed with Lois. And the later "Pete's married life with a supermodel" years just reinforced that notion for me. What can I say...I like happy endings. |
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 24, 2023 20:47:15 GMT -5
Sue Richards dresses like a tart. Sue has always been the mom of the Marvel Universe and this change was jarring to say the least. Some opine that this was a reaction to the Image guys and their over the top depiction of characters, and some say it was just Defalco mocking that era.  Either way, she joined Powergirl with a Boob window in her suit.  Well, that's one of the hallmarks of the dumbass 90's comic for you. Titillation for males with the mentality of an 11-year old. Throw in all of the "eXtreme" type of comics, and its time for a universal memory wipe. |
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Post by tarkintino on Nov 24, 2023 21:01:54 GMT -5
Dying in such a tragic way, with Spider-Man unable to save her despite all his powers, is probably the most interesting thing that ever happened with Gwen's character. And I say that as a big, big Gwen Stacy fan. This is probably a YMMV kind of topic, I'm more of a "happily ever after" guy. I would rather they had grown old together, like Earth-2 Superman was portrayed with Lois. And the later "Pete's married life with a supermodel" years just reinforced that notion for me. What can I say...I like happy endings. What If? #24 (December, 1980) presented a fascinating, alternate move Spider-Man could have employed to save Gwen in "What If Gwen Stacy Had Lived?":
I would never go back and change the seismic, incredible Gwen/Goblin arc from TASM 121-122, but I appreciated this story--easily one of the best from the first version of What If?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2023 23:02:44 GMT -5
This is probably a YMMV kind of topic, I'm more of a "happily ever after" guy. I would rather they had grown old together, like Earth-2 Superman was portrayed with Lois. And the later "Pete's married life with a supermodel" years just reinforced that notion for me. What can I say...I like happy endings. What If? #24 (December, 1980) presented a fascinating, alternate move Spider-Man could have employed to save Gwen in "What If Gwen Stacy Had Lived?":
I would never go back and change the seismic, incredible Gwen/Goblin arc from TASM 121-122, but I appreciated this story--easily one of the best from the first version of What If?
That last panel on the last page...that's so powerful. Not just because of the "happy ending", but here's a character who almost faced unimaginable loss and was given a second chance. That hits me harder than the original story. If canon had continued from that instead, I think Peter would have been forever changed in a different way, a major character development that could have meant so much and made their relationship (and Peter's overall outlook on life) that much deeper. Happy endings don't have to be fluff pieces, they can have all the gravity of a tragic story when done well. |
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Post by zaku on Nov 25, 2023 3:30:18 GMT -5
I don't know if I would put Ms. Marvel's story with the others. In other cases, the authors knew what they were doing. In Ms. Marvel's case people had to explain to them as if they were 5 year olds that she had been actually raped and her Avengers "friends" being perfectly ok with that was atrocious. I agree the Ms. Marvel story was by far the most heinous example of clueless writing, but portraying the killing of a baby in mainstream superhero comics is NOT ok in my book. And as a parent myself, I can't tell you how much that Aquaman disaster has sat worse with me over the years. The Gwen thing I'm still just bitter about. Same with "Hank the wife-beater", completely destroyed the character. Maybe I should explain myself better. In the case of Aquaman and Gwen Stacy, the authors knew what they were representing: infanticide and murder respectively. What they meant is what we see. Then we can obviously have opinions on these stories. The problem with Ms Marvel was that the writers had no idea they were depicting rape. Indeed, they were convinced that they had created a sort of happy ending for Ms Marvel. It's ok to have a legitimate difference of opinion on a story. But an author who doesn't even realize what he has written/drawn is a different, well, story. |
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Post by rberman on Nov 25, 2023 13:22:33 GMT -5
The rape aspect of Avengers #200 has become deservedly infamous over time. It's puzzling that Michelinie added that element at all. It's not even suggested by the art, just a caption. Two captions really: once for Immortus courting a woman he rescued from the Titanic, and once for Marcus courting Carol Danvers. The mention of the "subtle" effect of Immortus' machines is completely unnecessary in either case. Why not just say that both men practiced successful seduction, or even sincere courtship? It's the Marvel Method gone awry, a few extra words needlessly damaging the story. Was this an editorial emendation by Jim Salicrup, on grounds that Carol never would have fallen for Marcus?   |
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Post by Duragizer on Nov 25, 2023 13:46:33 GMT -5
Sue Richards dresses like a tart. Sue has always been the mom of the Marvel Universe and this change was jarring to say the least. Some opine that this was a reaction to the Image guys and their over the top depiction of characters, and some say it was just Defalco mocking that era. Either way, she joined Powergirl with a Boob window in her suit. They should do this more often to male characters. Replace Batman's chest emblem with a manboob window, with the bat shaved out of his chest hair. Ditch the tights and turn the trunks into a black g-string. Also make certain to twist him around in all sorts of implausible positions so we can see all the goods as often as possible. |
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