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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 26, 2024 11:28:13 GMT -5
I'll give you an interesting take. The first episode I ever saw of the Prisoner, after vaguely hearing about it over the years and then seeing an article in Starlog, was the final episode. I discovered it on the local PBS station, on a weekend night, while going to Supply Corps School, in Athens, GA. Aside from what the article covered, that was my intro to things. I mostly sat there, thinking, "WTF?" Now, the acting was superb and the setting was intriguing, so that kept me watching, as my brain smoked. Unfortunately, the station aired another program in its place, the following week, so I couldn't see it repeated. I did find that a local Camelot Music store (remember those?) had a select few tapes for sale, for a low price. I bought the first, "Arrival," "The Alternate Version of The Chimes of Big Ben" and "Fallout." which were all they had. Those first two give enough context to the series that rewatching Fallout was less, WTF and more "what does it mean?" Soon after, I discovered a local comic shop (on the other side of town) and they had a copy of The Prisoner Companion for sale and I bought it. When I reached my new duty station, in Charleston, SC, I discovered that a local Blockbuster had the whole series, for rent and soon watched the whole thing (and pirated it) and I was totally hooked. It was clear in my first viewing and reinforced in repeated, that Fallout is an exercise in philosophy, rather than an adventure or the revelation of a mystery. The subsequent reading of the Prisoner Companion and the history of the show and McGoohan's statements added to that. Once you know that the whole series is more about the conflict between the Individual maintaining their individual identity and freedom and Society trying to bring them into the fold, subverting their individuality for the whole of Society (conform), then everything pretty much makes sense, beyond the basic plot of Number 6 trying to escape or throw a monkey wrench into the workings of the latest scheme of the new Number 2. That final episode is pretty much the final debate on the subject and the fact that you are left to ponder if Number 6 truly escaped leads me to the conclusion that the question is, do we ever escape the pressure of society to conform to proscribed norms, even when we have firmly expressed our individuality? Is it an endless struggle? Is it the main conflict of communities? That's why I love the series, because it makes you think, as well as it entertains you. It's the reason I loved Columbo so much and why McGoohan loved appearing on that show and working with Peter Falk (aside from the brilliant writing and acting). It's also why I devoted a whole thread to the show and related media.I think I posted this, in the thread; but, this is a tremendous interview and discussion, with McGoohan, and a Canadian audience, about the series. After decades of Phil Donahue, Oprah Winfrey and Jerry Springer putting out inane and insulting questions from an audience, it is so refreshing to see intelligent questions and conversation, from a large group (of admitted fans). This was the biggest failure of the remake, that appeared on AMC. It substituted advertising tricks, cliche and bad New Age pop psychology for intelligent philosophical discourse. It was also bland as all hell. I was more angered by the remake than I ever was about Fallout, mostly in the commercial break teases of more information, only to find out it was just a trick to get you to sit through the ads. That was a move that the Village would have used, which Number 6 would have crapped all over. Then, the reveal of things just goes to show that some things shouldn't be explained; or, at least, you better have a much better explanation than it was all set up by Number 2 to heal people, emotionally. The f@#$ it was! It was set up to protect and extract secrets....end of story. Be seeing you!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Apr 26, 2024 11:57:23 GMT -5
I didn't even know there had been a remake. Now I hope to forget the fact as fast as possible!
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 26, 2024 12:27:50 GMT -5
I didn't even know there had been a remake. Now I hope to forget the fact as fast as possible! The Village will not be defeated...... They shot exteriors in Namibia, in a community built by the Germans, when it was their colony. The setting for the Village is fine, Ian McKellan is his usual brilliant. The rest? Well, in my IMDB review I remarked that the color of the sand matched the blandness of the presentation. It's a sea of "beige," while the original was filled with vibrant color. And not just from a visual standpoint.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Apr 26, 2024 12:49:40 GMT -5
For me, an additional strike against the Prisoner remake (never watched a minute of it, and never intend to) is casting Caviezel in the lead. To me, he only works in smaller, supporting roles (esp. if he's playing a bad guy, which seems to suit him better).
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Post by Calidore on Apr 26, 2024 13:24:10 GMT -5
I never could stomach Seinfeld. The characters were all obnoxious and I never found their antics funny. I don't like "cringe" comedy (one of the reasons I loathe The Office) and avoid it as much as I can. I enjoyed the first couple of seasons of Friends but burned out on it after that (I wanted to beat Ross with a nail-studded baseball bat). No matter what genre a given show is (sitcom, police procedural, medical drama, etc), I have to like the characters if I'm going to tune in week after week. Thus I've had no incentive to watch shows like Breaking Bad, Dexter, House of Cards, The Sopranos, Boardwalk Empire, et al, that wallow in their characters' vices and criminality. I don't have a problem with anyone who does enjoy such shows. They're just not my cuppa. Cei-U! I summon my quirky TV habits! Hear, hear. I'm reminded of the opening of one local critic's capsule review of Animal House--that he'd probably laughed harder at that movie than he ever had at any movie he hadn't really liked. Although I did like Friends, I was never able to enjoy Seinfeld, because I was never able to like the characters. I had the same problem with Cheers, as opposed to the same creators' earlier Taxi, which I liked very much.
Regarding bad guys as protagonists, I'm with you there too. I can't help wondering if the public's elevation of openly and cheerfully unrepentant villains to great wealth and power is reflected in or reflective of the preponderance of their idolization in much of modern media.
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Post by Calidore on Apr 26, 2024 13:28:38 GMT -5
My wife is a fan of Sons of Anarchy which is the epitome of wallowing in people with almost zero redeeming qualities. They all were either killing or [use your imagination]. And she would sometimes watch that before I would go to bed when her insomnia was bad. And I would have to literally sleep with headphones and music in my ears just to drowned out the sounds coming from that TV that I didn't want to hear. I have no idea how people can enjoy things like that. It was like it was directed by Quentin Tarantino who made an entire career with movies like that. Which is why that one scene is my favorite part of Desperado. While I did enjoy 24, by the time the series ended, I was mentally exhausted at the sheer nihilism of it all. No character in that show appeared to have much of a personal life or anything positive going for them. Not that it needed to be that way. It wouldn’t have worked having Jack Bauer cracking jokes in a coffee shop at the end of each season, or having scenes where a CTU chief said, “Right, well I’m off on holiday, see you when I get back.” The nature of the show, and the real-time aspect, meant it was going to be nihilistic, and I knew that going in. But it was mentally exhausting to follow each season. By the end of it, I was ready to watch some lighter shows. I thought the first two seasons of 24 were tremendous, but it jumped the shark for me in season three when the writers openly got lazy. Having Bauer, who had spent the first two seasons outsmarting the villains, kill an innocent man on the bad guy's orders with no repercussions ever, was the nail in the coffin for me.
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Post by berkley on Apr 26, 2024 14:30:04 GMT -5
For the people who dislike Seinfeld and find the characters obnoxious, I wonder if they missed the first few years, before it became the huge pop-culture phenomenon it did. For me, seeing it right from the beginning, I never found the characters unlikeable, quite the opposite - and by the time the writers started to deliberately make them that way, I had already gotten sued to them and thus gave them the benefit of the doubt.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 26, 2024 14:30:20 GMT -5
You can add me to the "not a fan" camp, for Seinfeld. I never found Jerry Seinfeld particularly funny, when he was a stand-up comic and found that the SNL "Stand-Up and Win" sketch to pretty well summarize his routines (I did like him in the history teacher sketch, on SNL and he was a good sport and good, as the MC, on the gameshow sketch). So, when the series came out, I wasn't exactly inclined to watch it. I sampled it and didn't think much about what I saw and watched something else. At the same time, I worked retail hours, which for Barnes and Noble meant until 11:00 pm, in that period and I often closed. So, I had little chance to watch it (or Friends) and little inclination to record it. I sampled it in syndication and I generally didn't find it funny and didn't give two #$%^s about the characters. Thus, I skipped it and never quite understood the worship of it. Same for Friends, though I watched more of that, in syndication, since Barb did (same for Two and a Half Men, which I also think is a two-joke show and they weren't especially funny jokes). I found some episodes funny, but could not relate to any character and didn't care about them. To me, they were this ridiculous Hollywood fantasy of young people and almost none of them worked a job that would have afforded them those apartments. I didn't find Ross & Rachel terribly romantic, as she was so self-centered and he was a neurotic mess and I could care less if they found happiness. May sound harsh; but, it felt like an extension of the narcissism that I saw in The Real World, on MTV, when I tried a bit of it. After growing up in a house where my parents struggled to make a living, as professionals, rarely receiving an "allowance" and working for spending money (or birthday or holiday gifts), working in some fashion, since the age of 13, earning a scholarship to go to college, sacrificing 8 years of my life in the military, then being underpaid in retail management......watching some attention-seeking 20-somethings whine about their lives, while living rent-free in a nice house, instead of a studio apartment, just made my blood boil. Friends just seemed like an extension of that same dynamic...I live in a nice place, have my needs met with little trouble and I constantly whine about my life and make bad jokes.
Now, I liked The Office, in both versions (UK and US), though for different reasons. Having worked for incompetent bosses, I could relate to certain aspects. At the same time, I could relate to Michael, about being in over his head, from my time as a junior officer, in the Navy, at my first posting. I was in way over my head and I had real trouble getting to the surface. That experience helped shape me and gave me confidence when I entered the workforce; but, I was a bad officer, at the start of my tour. By the end, I had learned how to get things done, which is a key component of leadership. You use what you have to accomplish the job, in the time you have available....whatever it takes. Problem is, in the civilian world, that doesn't necessarily get you rewarded. Of course, I also didn't have ambition to rise to the top in companies, like Barnes & Noble. After a while, I could see that being the boss brought a lot of headaches that I didn't want and contented myself with being the "power behind the throne." Didn't matter, either way, when they were looking to cut things to the bone, to sell off the company, though. 20 years loyal service meant f-all. If anything, The Office didn't really show how ruthless business is, in the corporate world. Probably because so few writers have ever experienced it, for any great length of time.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 26, 2024 14:42:40 GMT -5
For the people who dislike Seinfeld and find the characters obnoxious, I wonder if they missed the first few years, before it became the huge pop-culture phenomenon it did. For me, seeing it right from the beginning, I never found the characters unlikeable, quite the opposite - and by the time the writers started to deliberately make them that way, I had already gotten sued to them and thus gave them the benefit of the doubt. Work was probably a greater reason why I didn't watch it regularly, at the start, but my impression of Jerry Seinfeld and a relative indifference to the rest of the cast (and Michael Richards always rubbed me the wrong way, going back to the Fridays tv show) just meant I never really had an inclination to watch it. When I did sample it, I didn't find much to change my indifference. Nothing in particular and I have enjoyed shows with unlikeable characters, like Absolutely Fabulous and The Young Ones, or something like the British House of Cards (forget the American remake, watch Ian Richardson). It just didn't click with me. It is pretty rare that I find that something that initially didn't click for me wins me over later. The Battlestar Galactica remake was a rare instance of that, but, I resisted seeing it until I was working away from home, for a week and was stuck at a B&B, in an unfamiliar town, with nothing else to do when I wasn't working, and watched a bit of The Runway and BSG. That still didn't win me over to BSG, because it was mid-storyline and I had no idea what was going one and it was a few years (near the end of the series) before I watched the original mini-series and then got hooked into watching more. I hadn't watched because I was a fan of the original and too many bad remakes of shows pretty much lumped them all into the "skip" category.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 26, 2024 15:07:22 GMT -5
For the people who dislike Seinfeld and find the characters obnoxious, I wonder if they missed the first few years, before it became the huge pop-culture phenomenon it did. For me, seeing it right from the beginning, I never found the characters unlikeable, quite the opposite - and by the time the writers started to deliberately make them that way, I had already gotten sued to them and thus gave them the benefit of the doubt. I liked the first two or three seasons of Seinfeld, when it really was "about nothing." But it wore out its welcome as it drifted in to standard sit-com mediocrity.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 30, 2024 21:57:03 GMT -5
I never could stomach Seinfeld. The characters were all obnoxious and I never found their antics funny. I don't like "cringe" comedy (one of the reasons I loathe The Office) and avoid it as much as I can. I enjoyed the first couple of seasons of Friends but burned out on it after that (I wanted to beat Ross with a nail-studded baseball bat). No matter what genre a given show is (sitcom, police procedural, medical drama, etc), I have to like the characters if I'm going to tune in week after week. Thus I've had no incentive to watch shows like Breaking Bad, Dexter, House of Cards, The Sopranos, Boardwalk Empire, et al, that wallow in their characters' vices and criminality. I don't have a problem with anyone who does enjoy such shows. They're just not my cuppa. Cei-U! I summon my quirky TV habits! Seinfeld had it's moments, but i wouldn't say I'm a fan... I watched it enough in syndication to be familiar, but it's more of a 'I want some background noise' show then something I would actively seek out. I think I agree with your TV tastes... I found House of Cards and the Sopranos interesting for the first season or two but once it went too far over the top the fact the I didn't care about the characters made me stop... the others I only got through a couple episodes (The Wire was another one)/ Contrast that with shows I did really like (Longmire and Justified come to mind, and I know they are similar) where not only was the story good but I liked the lead characters.
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Post by nairb73 on May 11, 2024 23:38:39 GMT -5
A number of my childhood and teenage favorite sitcoms ended in 1992-'Who's The Boss?', 'Growing Pains', 'Night Court', and... that show about the Huxtable family. All had rather underwhelming finales, and all had been on too long by '92.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 12, 2024 17:41:23 GMT -5
I didn't follow that series, but didn't Millenium end in an episode of The X-Files?
That's like Skull the Slayer concluding in Marvel Two-in-one!
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Post by driver1980 on May 15, 2024 18:13:29 GMT -5
I didn't follow that series, but didn't Millenium end in an episode of The X-Files? That's like Skull the Slayer concluding in Marvel Two-in-one! In a sense, yes. Millennium was cancelled, and then Frank Black concluded his arc in The X-Files. I like your comment on Skull the Slayer.
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Post by Duragizer on May 15, 2024 19:23:49 GMT -5
Andromeda. This one really sticks in my craw, knowing where Robert Hewitt Wolfe wanted to take the series before he was booted; it could've rivalled Babylon 5 in quality. Instead we got Hercules in Space.
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