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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Dec 1, 2014 5:25:17 GMT -5
I think the X-men became a meh book when Romita Jr. took over the artwork. When he left the first time for me. |
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Post by Pharozonk on Dec 1, 2014 10:15:35 GMT -5
Anyone remember all those 90's X-Men they tried to push? Cece Reyes, Maggot, and Marrow anyone?
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 1, 2014 10:41:21 GMT -5
Anyone remember all those 90's X-Men they tried to push? Cece Reyes, Maggot, and Marrow anyone? LOL... as we just stated, Marrow is currently featured in X-Force. I think Cecelia Reyes was around recently, too. I kinda liked her as Beast's girlfriend, back when Beast wasn't a mess. Maggot, I got nothin'... I think they killed him off during the Utopia era. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Dec 1, 2014 15:12:39 GMT -5
Other than FanboyStranger, who really cares about Guido? My 14 year old LOVES Strong Guy!  That may show that I'm maturing in my old age. I've always thought of myself in as a perpetual 12 year old.
One of the things I really like about Guido is that he really represents that scrawny, bullied kid who covers up his pain by being the class clown. Even after he gains the tremendous physical power, he's still that scared kid who uses jokes to pretend that there's nothing wrong. This is one of those X-metaphors that gets overlooked, in my opinion-- everyone talks about the civil rights metaphor (something that I think is overblown, personally), but I think this very personal metaphor cuts to the heart of the idea of heroes that the world hates even more cogently. Guido still can't shake the idea that people don't like him even as a massively powered adult, so he stills relies on his childhood crutch of cracking wise to negotiate the world. Unfortunately, most readers see him as a joke character and don't see the depth that's there.
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Post by fanboystranger on Dec 1, 2014 15:18:45 GMT -5
Anyone remember all those 90's X-Men they tried to push? Cece Reyes, Maggot, and Marrow anyone? I liked CeCe Reyes. I liked that she was a doctor first, then was a mutant hero. Obviously, she and Maggot were Joe Kelly's pet characters. Maggot was completely dumb, in my opinion, but Reyes had potential, mostly for her attitude. I'd argue that her best appearance was actually in Kelly's Daredevil when she patched Matt up, then sarcastically berated him for getting beat up in the first place.
Lost track of her after that.
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Post by the4thpip on Dec 1, 2014 17:27:30 GMT -5
The Roy Thomas/Werner Roth issues with the giant locusts. (Seriously, apart from Banshee did anything from that era ever make a reappearance? Even when there were 417 different X-books? Sooooo bad.) El Tigre (very randomly) showed up in Ka-Zar #3.  |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 1, 2014 21:11:49 GMT -5
Huh. More than I thought. Good for them! Here's hoping for the return of the Count Nefaria/Eel/Plantman/Unicorn team!
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Post by impulse on Dec 3, 2014 1:58:37 GMT -5
I couldn't say when I feel it truly jumped the shark the first time, but I think Grant Morrison revitalized the line and setup many great things, and House of M just stopped it dead in its tracks and killed the franchise. I know Morrison's run is very love-it-or-hate-it, but he introduced a lot of new concepts and really progressed the x-line. It was set to move on and be great, but for reasons that boggle the mind Marvel decided to take them back to the stone age. I've found nearly everything X-related since then to be appalling.
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Post by Pól Rua on Dec 3, 2014 8:20:36 GMT -5
I have to agree. I thought Morrison's run kind of distilled everything that came before and, instead of regurgitating it, actually told some pretty compelling NEW stories with the material.
Riot at Xavier's was a highlight for mine because it actually looked at the goals and purposes of the X-Men and Xavier's vision as a whole in a way that hadn't been done beyond 'Oh, Prof. X is a goodie and peace and harmony, and Magneto is a baddie and war and angry'. I love Kid Omega as a character - he's a guy who will oppose you, who'll be an antagonist, but who you can't beat by punching.
Plus, I loved his take on Magneto as an old, angry terrorist.
I keep seeing characters like Doctor Doom, Lex Luthor, Magneto and Black Adam upheld as 'heroic' just because they have a code.
The simple fact is that all of these characters are villains for a reason, and while you can admire elements of their character, it's important that that admiration doesn't overrun everything else that they are.
Oddly enough, Morrison's responsible for three of my favourite takes on this.
First, with Sub-Mariner in 'Fantastic Four: 1, 2, 3, 4' where he illustrates how terrifying it is to stand next to Prince Namor. He's not human. He doesn't think like us. He doesn't especially LIKE us, and he can break us all like twigs. He paints being in a room with him like being in a tank with a shark.
And then with Lex Luthor in 'All-Star Superman' (my favourite portrayal of Luthor EVER), where Lex bemoans the fact that he could do so much good with Superman's powers, he could save the world... but Superman shuts him down by saying, "If it had been important to you, you could have saved the world at any time."
Great stuff.
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Post by Pól Rua on Dec 3, 2014 8:23:03 GMT -5
Huh. More than I thought. Good for them! Here's hoping for the return of the Count Nefaria/Eel/Plantman/Unicorn team! I miss guys like that. Marvel has some GREAT, quirky villains, but they seem afraid to use them. Yes, of course they're 'corny'... they're SUPERVILLAINS! Not every antagonist has to be a Hannibal Lecter-style 'study in villainy' or whatever. Some of them are just fine to be Tiger Shark, The Red Ghost (and his Super-Apes) or The Constrictor. |
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Post by badwolf on Dec 3, 2014 9:44:15 GMT -5
Well, all of those villains have appeared again, maybe just not all together.
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Post by impulse on Dec 3, 2014 10:14:49 GMT -5
One aspect of the X-Men that I go back and forth on is the theme of mutants as a substitute for oppressed minorities -- specifically, whether that theme is still relevant and/or interesting, or is played out. I certainly grant that oppression, prejudice, and discrimination still occur all over the world, so in that sense it is still a relevant theme. But from an in-universe standpoint, how long can writers mine that topic before it makes the Marvel Universe seem unrealistically regressive? You'd think by this time, there'd be some major non-mutant voices within the Marvel Universe speaking up on behalf of mutants, or a greater push for mutant acceptance much in the same way that you see, for example, Hollywood mobilizing on behalf of gay marriage. Grant Morrison actually did a lot of that in his run. Not so much outsiders coming to the defense of mutant rights but the mutant culture stepping out from the shadows and embracing itself much like seems to have happened/be happening with the gay community. If Marvel hadn't reversed course, I don't doubt we would see a lot more of what you describe today of people speaking out in favor of mutant rights, etc. Sigh, I'm really disappointed they blasted away his run. Opinions on his run itself aside, he brought them up to date and aligned them with the times. It was the last time I was really excited about the X-Books, particularly after being disillusioned by the worst of the 90s output. |
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Post by the4thpip on Dec 3, 2014 10:26:15 GMT -5
Huh. More than I thought. Good for them! Here's hoping for the return of the Count Nefaria/Eel/Plantman/Unicorn team! I miss guys like that. Marvel has some GREAT, quirky villains, but they seem afraid to use them. Yes, of course they're 'corny'... they're SUPERVILLAINS! Not every antagonist has to be a Hannibal Lecter-style 'study in villainy' or whatever. Some of them are just fine to be Tiger Shark, The Red Ghost (and his Super-Apes) or The Constrictor. The latest issue of Loki had an awesome gang of juggling based super villains! |
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Post by badwolf on Dec 3, 2014 10:28:57 GMT -5
The latest issue of Loki had an awesome gang of juggling based super villains! Not the Death-Throws, from Hawkeye's old series, were they? |
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Post by the4thpip on Dec 3, 2014 10:49:28 GMT -5
The latest issue of Loki had an awesome gang of juggling based super villains! Not the Death-Throws, from Hawkeye's old series, were they? That's their name! But they have an awesomely leggy new member. I didn't realize they'd been around before. |
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