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Post by rich on Nov 8, 2024 11:11:09 GMT -5
Well, hardly a favorite writer; but, Brad Meltzer ticked me right the hell off. Brad Meltzer... ah yes. I remember his "love letter to the Silver Age" with Identity Crisis. Funny, I don't remember forced rape a part of the Silver Age. It was a total middle finger to what the Justice League was and were with piss poor writing. Geoff Johns gave me an answer that still haunts me to this day about Infinite Crisis. Another editorial mandate to make things even darker before a reboot, the first issue of this mini-series starts off with the brutal murder of The Freedom Fighters. It's brutal; impaling, decapitations. Seriously a WTF moment and not talked about. Freedom Fighters are a favorite team of mine. When I asked him about this, he said 'I did it because I could. Who cares about that team?' When I told him that I was, he looked me dumbfounded. Ah, Geoff Johns... I've heard his name many times but have yet to read a comic he wrote. None ever appealed. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 8, 2024 11:14:23 GMT -5
The Killing Joke. Alan Moore’s portrayal of Barbara Gordon was really awful. I wasn’t even a big fan of Batgirl at the time. But she was taken by surprise by the Joker and some thugs and beaten very badly, and it was just stupid. And it has nothing to do with being Batgirl. Barbara Gordon is a Gothamite and the daughter of the police commissioner. She knows better than to open the door for anybody who knocks. Not just lazy writing, but very very stupid writing. I don't think it was out of character, lazy writing, or stupid. The point is that Barbara Gordon was already expecting her friend to knock for that evening's Yoga class, and at that particular moment when the Joker knocked, she was distracted by her father updating his scrapbook and their both reminiscing about the scary stories he used to tell Barbara about the various Bat-villains when she was younger. So, with the combination of expecting her friend to knock at that time anyway and also being distracted by a conversation, I think it's perfectly believable that she would open the door. Even if she really should've known better, we've all done silly stuff we know better than to do when we weren't thinking. I guess our respective understandings of Barbara Gordon are completely different. I’m trying to think of any other time she did something that stupid and careless. |
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Post by DubipR on Nov 8, 2024 11:14:57 GMT -5
Brad Meltzer... ah yes. I remember his "love letter to the Silver Age" with Identity Crisis. Funny, I don't remember forced rape a part of the Silver Age. It was a total middle finger to what the Justice League was and were with piss poor writing. Geoff Johns gave me an answer that still haunts me to this day about Infinite Crisis. Another editorial mandate to make things even darker before a reboot, the first issue of this mini-series starts off with the brutal murder of The Freedom Fighters. It's brutal; impaling, decapitations. Seriously a WTF moment and not talked about. Freedom Fighters are a favorite team of mine. When I asked him about this, he said 'I did it because I could. Who cares about that team?' When I told him that I was, he looked me dumbfounded. Ah, Geoff Johns... I've heard his name many times but have yet to read a comic he wrote. None ever appealed. When Johns is on, its good. His JSA and Hawkman run are worth giving a read. I never cared for his Flash run. I know he brought Barry back but Waid perfected the Flash. I never read his Green Lantern run because honestly I hate Hal Jordan as a character. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 8, 2024 11:15:01 GMT -5
The Killing Joke. Alan Moore’s portrayal of Barbara Gordon was really awful. I wasn’t even a big fan of Batgirl at the time. But she was taken by surprise by the Joker and some thugs and beaten very badly, and it was just stupid. And it has nothing to do with being Batgirl. Barbara Gordon is a Gothamite and the daughter of the police commissioner. She knows better than to open the door for anybody who knocks. Not just lazy writing, but very very stupid writing. To be fair, Alan Moore thinks The Killing Joke is pretty awful also. As someone that read it out of context some 10 years after it was printed I would agree with him. I don't the "acclaimed" part that's always included when naming Killing Joke. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 8, 2024 11:15:20 GMT -5
Well, hardly a favorite writer; but, Brad Meltzer ticked me right the hell off. Brad Meltzer... ah yes. I remember his "love letter to the Silver Age" with Identity Crisis. Funny, I don't remember forced rape a part of the Silver Age. It was a total middle finger to what the Justice League was and were with piss poor writing. Geoff Johns gave me an answer that still haunts me to this day about Infinite Crisis. Another editorial mandate to make things even darker before a reboot, the first issue of this mini-series starts off with the brutal murder of The Freedom Fighters. It's brutal; impaling, decapitations. Seriously a WTF moment and not talked about. Freedom Fighters are a favorite team of mine. When I asked him about this, he said 'I did it because I could. Who cares about that team?' When I told him that I was, he looked me dumbfounded. Who doesn't like The Freedom Fighters? At least as a concept. Sure the 70s book doesn't hold up well, but that was one of the best JLA-JSA team-ups. And as a concept they were great. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 8, 2024 11:25:02 GMT -5
Well, hardly a favorite writer; but, Brad Meltzer ticked me right the hell off. Brad Meltzer... ah yes. I remember his "love letter to the Silver Age" with Identity Crisis. Funny, I don't remember forced rape a part of the Silver Age. It was a total middle finger to what the Justice League was and were with piss poor writing. Geoff Johns gave me an answer that still haunts me to this day about Infinite Crisis. Another editorial mandate to make things even darker before a reboot, the first issue of this mini-series starts off with the brutal murder of The Freedom Fighters. It's brutal; impaling, decapitations. Seriously a WTF moment and not talked about. Freedom Fighters are a favorite team of mine. When I asked him about this, he said 'I did it because I could. Who cares about that team?' When I told him that I was, he looked me dumbfounded. When I read Infinite Crisis I didn't know who the Freedom Fighters were. I was only 10 years or so into reading comics. But yeah that wasn't a battle. That was a slaughter, and they were not at all holding back with how graphic and intense it was. I remember looking on the cover and being like "oh yeah no comic code". |
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 8, 2024 11:27:40 GMT -5
Well, hardly a favorite writer; but, Brad Meltzer ticked me right the hell off. The name rang zero bells with me, so I Googled who the heck he was. Turns out he's been very active since I quit comics! What did he write that annoyed you? Identity Crisis, where he proceeded to write a story that features Sue Dibny being raped by Dr Light (retroactively), then murdered, while pregnant, by Jean Loring, the ex-wife of the Atom, as part of a phony attack on JLA loved ones, to bring Ray Pamer back into her life. The murder wasn't planned, but she tries to cover it up by incinerating the body. It was bad soap opera writing for no good purpose, except to expose the JLA as a bunch of mind-wiping, fascist vigilantes, who even mind-controlled their own, "for their own good." It was bad characterization, it was piss-poor plotting, it was shock value to cover up plot holes, and it was pandering to the worst elements of fandom. The fallout of it was even worse, as it led to a culling of characters that Dan Didio and similarly minded cretins didn't like, including Ralph Dibny, Blue Beetle (in part because DC might not have clear title on Ted Kord) and turning Max Lord heel and let Wonder Woman snap his neck, so she can seem badass, rather than represent a way of peace and love, as she had, traditionally. It was a fecal-storm of awful, but it had purty pick-chers, so that's okay. His thrillers are crap, too. The only reason he got to write this @#$% is because he used the name Oliver Queen in a couple of books. So he also got to @#$% all over Green Arrow. Mike Grell he wasn't! |
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Post by rich on Nov 8, 2024 11:52:48 GMT -5
The name rang zero bells with me, so I Googled who the heck he was. Turns out he's been very active since I quit comics! What did he write that annoyed you? Identity Crisis, where he proceeded to write a story that features Sue Dibny being raped by Dr Light (retroactively), then murdered, while pregnant, by Jean Loring, the ex-wife of the Atom, as part of a phony attack on JLA loved ones, to bring Ray Pamer back into her life. The murder wasn't planned, but she tries to cover it up by incinerating the body. It was bad soap opera writing for no good purpose, except to expose the JLA as a bunch of mind-wiping, fascist vigilantes, who even mind-controlled their own, "for their own good." It was bad characterization, it was piss-poor plotting, it was shock value to cover up plot holes, and it was pandering to the worst elements of fandom. The fallout of it was even worse, as it led to a culling of characters that Dan Didio and similarly minded cretins didn't like, including Ralph Dibny, Blue Beetle (in part because DC might not have clear title on Ted Kord) and turning Max Lord heel and let Wonder Woman snap his neck, so she can seem badass, rather than represent a way of peace and love, as she had, traditionally. It was a fecal-storm of awful, but it had purty pick-chers, so that's okay. His thrillers are crap, too. The only reason he got to write this @#$% is because he used the name Oliver Queen in a couple of books. So he also got to @#$% all over Green Arrow. Mike Grell he wasn't! Ah, yes. I remember reading a review of that crap at the time and wondering why comics had got so much worse since I quit buying them a couple of years before. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Nov 8, 2024 12:01:56 GMT -5
The name rang zero bells with me, so I Googled who the heck he was. Turns out he's been very active since I quit comics! What did he write that annoyed you? Identity Crisis, where he proceeded to write a story that features Sue Dibny being raped by Dr Light (retroactively), then murdered, while pregnant, by Jean Loring, the ex-wife of the Atom, as part of a phony attack on JLA loved ones, to bring Ray Pamer back into her life. The murder wasn't planned, but she tries to cover it up by incinerating the body. It was bad soap opera writing for no good purpose, except to expose the JLA as a bunch of mind-wiping, fascist vigilantes, who even mind-controlled their own, "for their own good." It was bad characterization, it was piss-poor plotting, it was shock value to cover up plot holes, and it was pandering to the worst elements of fandom. The fallout of it was even worse, as it led to a culling of characters that Dan Didio and similarly minded cretins didn't like, including Ralph Dibny, Blue Beetle (in part because DC might not have clear title on Ted Kord) and turning Max Lord heel and let Wonder Woman snap his neck, so she can seem badass, rather than represent a way of peace and love, as she had, traditionally. It was a fecal-storm of awful, but it had purty pick-chers, so that's okay. His thrillers are crap, too. The only reason he got to write this @#$% is because he used the name Oliver Queen in a couple of books. So he also got to @#$% all over Green Arrow. Mike Grell he wasn't! Identity Crisis was “a love letter to the Silver Age” for people who don’t know what a love letter is or when the Silver Age was. |
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Post by mikelmidnight on Nov 8, 2024 12:38:58 GMT -5
I wasn't offended or anything but I don't know what Gerber was aiming for with Void Indigo. I don't really remember anything about it except for a vague confused feeling.
I didn't understand everything but I liked the set-up and the feeling that Gerber would eventually bring it all together in some cool way - and I still think he would have if it hadn't been cancelled so soon. But I just liked his style and thus didnt mind if it didn't immediately make complete sense to me. I think this was one of his most "Gerber-esque" creations, which was exactly what I wanted to see from him.
This was originally a proposal for a post-Crisis Hawkman. Knowing that, you can see it in the first issue: the alien who is reincarnated from an ancient human and who reconnects with the reincarnation of his lost love. It would probably lose Hawkwoman, I guess, which would be a shame? As much as I'm a Gerber fan, the comic seemed so deliberately unpleasant I could not get into it. I'd have hoped if it'd lasted longer, the arc would have become more appealing. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,201 
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Post by Confessor on Nov 8, 2024 18:44:27 GMT -5
I don't think it was out of character, lazy writing, or stupid. The point is that Barbara Gordon was already expecting her friend to knock for that evening's Yoga class, and at that particular moment when the Joker knocked, she was distracted by her father updating his scrapbook and their both reminiscing about the scary stories he used to tell Barbara about the various Bat-villains when she was younger. So, with the combination of expecting her friend to knock at that time anyway and also being distracted by a conversation, I think it's perfectly believable that she would open the door. Even if she really should've known better, we've all done silly stuff we know better than to do when we weren't thinking. I guess our respective understandings of Barbara Gordon are completely different. I’m trying to think of any other time she did something that stupid and careless. Well, I'm sure you're better read than I when it comes to Batgirl, but I guess my point was that there were mitigating circumstances. Its not like she just answered the door without thinking; she was expecting somebody else to knock at that time, and she was distracted anyway. It was a lapse of judgement or caution that had tragic results. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 8, 2024 18:58:12 GMT -5
Interesting that people don't know Brad Meltzer.. he was the first of DC's attempts to get popular authors to write comics.. He wrote several best sellers before doing anything with DC...most of them are DaVinci Code-like Thrillers with weird historical conspiracies thrown in.
He also wrote a bunch of little kid history books that are much better than Identity Crisis.
I think most often when I get ticked off at a writer its more for them moving on from a book a like, but I know that is mostly very silly.
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Post by Marv-El on Nov 8, 2024 19:04:52 GMT -5
Ah, Geoff Johns... I've heard his name many times but have yet to read a comic he wrote. None ever appealed. When Johns is on, its good. His JSA and Hawkman run are worth giving a read. I never cared for his Flash run. I know he brought Barry back but Waid perfected the Flash. I never read his Green Lantern run because honestly I hate Hal Jordan as a character. Yeah, typically, Johns can be one of my favorite writers. His JSA run was really good, he untangled the mess that was Hawkman's mythos and made me really love the character and concept, and I thought his ongoing Black Adam character story arc that ran through JSA and then 52 and beyond was really strong. Which is why I find your example of the Freedom Fighters disheartening to hear. What, he needed cannon fodder and that team was readily handy? While it doesn't really tick me off, that example also demonstrates something about Johns' writing that I find lacking sometimes and that is his level of violence. At one point, he had as one of Black Adam's favorite tactics ripping off people's arms. The most graphic example I recall was in a Green Lantern issue, I think right before the Blackest Night event started. The issue focused on the villain Black Hand and it ended with Black Hand killing himself. A full page spread of Black Hand blowing his brains out. Actually it was quite disturbing and I remember thinking, "Am I really seeing this in a DC comic??" |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2024 19:14:15 GMT -5
I really loved the Levitz/Giffen Legion run as a kid in the 80's, and when Levitz returned to the Legion with the New 52, I had some hope he might still have some Legion magic left in him.
Oh my I was wrong. I don't even know what he was thinking with Shadow Lass leaving Mon-El in the most nonsensical storyline, and it didn't get better from there. Sometimes you can't go back home I guess.
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 8, 2024 21:46:43 GMT -5
Identity Crisis, where he proceeded to write a story that features Sue Dibny being raped by Dr Light (retroactively), then murdered, while pregnant, by Jean Loring, the ex-wife of the Atom, as part of a phony attack on JLA loved ones, to bring Ray Pamer back into her life. The murder wasn't planned, but she tries to cover it up by incinerating the body. It was bad soap opera writing for no good purpose, except to expose the JLA as a bunch of mind-wiping, fascist vigilantes, who even mind-controlled their own, "for their own good." It was bad characterization, it was piss-poor plotting, it was shock value to cover up plot holes, and it was pandering to the worst elements of fandom. The fallout of it was even worse, as it led to a culling of characters that Dan Didio and similarly minded cretins didn't like, including Ralph Dibny, Blue Beetle (in part because DC might not have clear title on Ted Kord) and turning Max Lord heel and let Wonder Woman snap his neck, so she can seem badass, rather than represent a way of peace and love, as she had, traditionally. It was a fecal-storm of awful, but it had purty pick-chers, so that's okay. His thrillers are crap, too. The only reason he got to write this @#$% is because he used the name Oliver Queen in a couple of books. So he also got to @#$% all over Green Arrow. Mike Grell he wasn't! Identity Crisis was “a love letter to the Silver Age” for people who don’t know what a love letter is or when the Silver Age was. I don't know about "love letter to the Silver Age;" the majority of the stories he used for flashbacks were actually Bronze Age JLA stories....ones I had actually read, at the time, thanks to a friend who picked up the JLA semi regularly, for a little bit. |
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