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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2014 15:16:25 GMT -5
Yeah. It probably is. But I dragged my way through his Alpha Flight. I read every ruining moment of every single character.  It was awful. He destroyed my favorite Alphan. He may her into a character I could not tolerate. And he got rid of the entire original team. Same. I bought it up until the 60s, I think. No idea why. The only new character I kind of liked was Purple Girl. Who was your favorite Alphan? On a side note, I wish he'd gotten to do his Derangers Epic series with Butch Guice as was originally planned. Apparently that fell through and he incorporated them into AF, but except for Goblyn, they all kind of got short shrift. It seemed like an interesting idea when I read about it in Amazing Heroes. Heather was my favorite Alphan. Purple Girl is the worst thing Mantlo ever created. Ever. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 29, 2014 15:25:21 GMT -5
I know John Byrne didn't think much of Alpha Flight, but I know he was at least annoyed that Bill Mantlo changed the explanation for Puck's diminutive condition from a simple fluke of biology to being caused by a mystical entity. Mantlo seemed bent on wrecking pretty much everything Byrne had set up previously: turning Heather Hudson and Madison Jeffries into costumed adventurers when they had both previously established with certainty that they wouldn't or had no interest, making Roger Bochs insane and villainous where before he had proven himself loyal to Mac and Alpha Flight, killing Snowbird, turning Walter Langkowski into "Wanda"... I'd also mention revealing Northstar and Aurora as elves, but I believe that was an editorial edict. Still, it fits the thread, even if someone else made it happen. Excellent example! Mantlo's handling of Alpha Flight was a case study in how to turn lemonade back into lemons. (Bitter ones, too). Puck especially was turned from a very interesting and original character into a continuity nightmare joke. |
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Post by thebeastofyuccaflats on Nov 29, 2014 16:08:11 GMT -5
During Warren Ellis' run on Thunderbolts, Ellis decided to turn Robbie Baldwin into Penance, complete with a new suit that has hundreds of tiny spikes built into the costume, constantly stabbing Baldwin whenever he moves. Penance can only use his powers when he's in horrible, horrible agony--so everybody wins, except Baldwin, who incidentally loses... constantly. Paul Jenkins made him Penance in Civil War:Front Line. Jenkins also seemed to be the only one who took the whole "Penance" concept even remotely seriously. If anything, Ellis pretty much thumbed his nose at the sheer goofiness of it (such as having Osborne refer to him as "Crying Hulk" and so forth). |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 29, 2014 16:13:40 GMT -5
Yeah, it's too bad.. that could have been a chance for Marvel to deal with a serious issue (cutting/self-harm) and they made it into a joke... it made a reasonably amout of sense in the story, after all.
I think you could make a whole thread about what they've done to Tony Stark.. starting with the horror of the Crossing and going right on through to the present day.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2014 16:32:52 GMT -5
For me, DC taking a character whose whole shtick was the mystery of his mission and origins in the Phantom Stranger (to the point tha twhen they did a secret Origins for him they did 4 versions and said maybe one might be the origin, maybe not) and reduced that to...nope he's Judas Iscariot and he does what he does to get rid of the 30 pieces of silver forged into a necklace he wears around his neck...I understand DeMatteis may have come on board and tried to do something interesting with the character after that, but that Didio reinvention had me out the door for good....
-M
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2014 16:37:20 GMT -5
Paul Jenkins made him Penance in Civil War:Front Line. Jenkins also seemed to be the only one who took the whole "Penance" concept even remotely seriously. If anything, Ellis pretty much thumbed his nose at the sheer goofiness of it (such as having Osborne refer to him as "Crying Hulk" and so forth). My mistake. I read some of the Civil War stuff but never actually read any of the comics Penance was featured in, or Thunderbolts for that matter. |
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Post by badwolf on Nov 29, 2014 16:50:18 GMT -5
For me, DC taking a character whose whole shtick was the mystery of his mission and origins in the Phantom Stranger (to the point that when they did a secret Origins for him they did 4 versions and said maybe one might be the origin, maybe not) and reduced that to...nope he's Judas Iscariot and he does what he does to get rid of the 30 pieces of silver forged into a necklace he wears around his neck...I understand DeMatteis may have come on board and tried to do something interesting with the character after that, but that Didio reinvention had me out the door for good.... -M Oh, I liked that. I think it was a good idea, to present some possible origins which you could accept any of them, or reject all of them. He still remains a mystery but it gets the imagination going. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2014 20:58:15 GMT -5
For me, DC taking a character whose whole shtick was the mystery of his mission and origins in the Phantom Stranger (to the point that when they did a secret Origins for him they did 4 versions and said maybe one might be the origin, maybe not) and reduced that to...nope he's Judas Iscariot and he does what he does to get rid of the 30 pieces of silver forged into a necklace he wears around his neck...I understand DeMatteis may have come on board and tried to do something interesting with the character after that, but that Didio reinvention had me out the door for good.... -M Oh, I liked that. I think it was a good idea, to present some possible origins which you could accept any of them, or reject all of them. He still remains a mystery but it gets the imagination going. Oh I love Secret Origins #10 (you will see it mentioned from me soon in some event or other that may be happening here), but what they did to "revamp" and "retool" the character in the new52 wiped that out and defined specifically the origin and mission of the Stranger, which was bad enough, but the specifics of that detail were ludicrous themselves on top of it all, the kind of stuff that just puts Didio's career origins in daytime soap opera television front and center. -M |
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Post by DubipR on Nov 29, 2014 21:33:27 GMT -5
Sadly Dick Dillin's passed on, but the next time I see Len Wein, I need to ask him what he thought of Geoff Johns' butchering his Freedom Fighters (my favorite team) in Infinite Crisis. And when I mean butchering, I mean straight out massacre.... _002.jpg/269px-Black_Condor_(Ryan_Kendall)_002.jpg)  This is why I need to build a time machine and go back, and do what Patton Oswalt wanted to do with George Lucas, but I'd do it with Dan Didio. I hate this era of DC Comics.... or "Entertainment" as they're calling it. |
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Post by coveredinbees on Nov 29, 2014 21:51:28 GMT -5
Whoa
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Post by DubipR on Nov 29, 2014 22:01:07 GMT -5
Right? I asked Geoff Johns on why he choose the Freedom Fighters, he said that he put a list of characters he could kill off to Didioseid and he approved it. And I said, but why so brutal and his reply was "Because I could..." That's not an answer you'd like to hear from any creator. "Because I could..." F**king haunt me to this day. Just because these people weren't their favorites, they can be someone else's. |
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Post by coveredinbees on Nov 29, 2014 22:10:41 GMT -5
That's off putting. I'm not a fan of his writing, anyway (the Teen Titans got really whiny). THat much violence is just gross. Claremont wasn't thrilled as I was with the mutant population booming. www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=44388 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 7:01:31 GMT -5
Not the same character though - latest issues have one other of the motorbike GRs in there fighting this one, who turns out to be related to an old GR character... FWIW, I think it's been an interesting take on the concept, and some of the art has been tremendous. How would you rate it compared to the original 70s series, and 90s take, along with some of the recent minis (including femme Ghost Rider) Before this, I think I read 1 Ghost Rider comic in about 1975, so I'm not the best person to ask! |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 30, 2014 11:28:14 GMT -5
Not the same character though - latest issues have one other of the motorbike GRs in there fighting this one, who turns out to be related to an old GR character... FWIW, I think it's been an interesting take on the concept, and some of the art has been tremendous. How would you rate it compared to the original 70s series, and 90s take, along with some of the recent minis (including femme Ghost Rider)  A female GR! Why hasnt someone written this before? Is this an ongoing GR title? I haven't seen Adam's art in a while. Seems it's just as good or better. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 11:55:27 GMT -5
Not the same character though - latest issues have one other of the motorbike GRs in there fighting this one, who turns out to be related to an old GR character... FWIW, I think it's been an interesting take on the concept, and some of the art has been tremendous. How would you rate it compared to the original 70s series, and 90s take, along with some of the recent minis (including femme Ghost Rider) I ended up buying the TPB that came out last month. It's hard to compare to the previous stuff because it's more like an alternate universe take on Ghost Rider. The story is simple and isn't going to blow anyone away but I really like the art style in this one. |
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