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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 30, 2014 16:04:47 GMT -5
As much as I hate to admit it's influence; what if Frank Miller had never wrote DKR? Would Batman be what he is now? Would be all have been spared Bale as Batman? Might there still be room for a balance of dark and light hearted stories? Would it have made a difference ? Adams had already given the world the Dark Knight, I think it was only a matter of time till someone wrote the definitive grim and gritty version. As much as I enjoy DKR I do wish the character had balance. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 30, 2014 16:21:23 GMT -5
My what If? moment is , What if Stan Lee and John Buscema did most of the Silver and Bronze run of the JLA ? Maybe Marvel wouldn't exist right now. This is exactly the kind of twist I wanted. Could we have seen Fox and Sekowsky on the Avengers as the big 2 traded talent ? Actually that has quite a tasty feel to it. ..Imagine that... What if Joe Maneely had not been killed in 1958, and had instead remained with Atlas cranking out sci-fi and monster stories for Stan Lee until the launch of the MU in 1961? What book of Marvel/Atlas or National do you think he would have suited best ? Hawkman? Black Panther/Jungle Action ? Jonah Hex ? ... What if Captain America was a DC Character? Would Wonder Woman have become Mrs. America at some point? What if Wolfman and Perez never did New Teen Titans? What if the original Image gang had been able to find someone to take proper editorial/ publisher command for them in the early 1990s? Cap at DC, who leads the JLA, him or Superman or even the new God of War Wonder Woman ? Imagine the fights with Olly over the years. Titans...no Wolfman and Perez...DC go broke As for the Image boys getting editors, well everyone else had strong editorial control, and look what happened to them in the 90s. greed trumps common sense every day. What if the Shi'Ar vacation on Thanagar? So the Hawks in the Imperial Guard, they could have just quit and joined the Guardians of the Galaxy. Katar vs Drax for the biggest hothead in the team, with moral support from Rocket. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 30, 2014 16:25:25 GMT -5
For the record, I totally concur. And as a massive fan of what Doug Moench under the editing of Len Wein was accomplishing prior to the reboot, I struggle with all that DKR did to the character and franchise, but Moench and Wein weren't making DC any money, so they were going to be let go anyway, and without a DKR to bring new sales and attention to the franchise, it would have been handed off to an endless barrage of B and C list creative teams and, when the 90s speculation era hit, I think DC would have done something even more extreme with the title than paralyzing and temporarily replacing Bruce. If the titles weren't doing any business, I could have seen them actually and permanently replacing Bruce with Azrael, much as Hal Jordan got replaced by Kyle Rayner. werent there rumours that DC almost sold Batman to Marvel in the mid 80s ? Theres the What Ifs I want to play with. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Nov 30, 2014 16:30:54 GMT -5
]werent there rumours that DC almost sold Batman to Marvel in the mid 80s ? It was a dead comic, but it still had plenty of value to Warner Bros. merchandising. Considering DC's history of hoarding comic book properties, even when they have no idea how to use them (see Shazam! and Plastic Man), I sincerely doubt there was any truth to that rumor. Fun "What If?" but I can't imagine a reality in which it would have happened. |
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Post by The Captain on Nov 30, 2014 16:39:32 GMT -5
What if Roy Thomas, Len Wein, and John Romita, Sr. never created Wolverine?
Without Wolverine, it is likely that the X-Men would not have come back from their reprint limbo; however, even if they had, it is unlikely the team would have achieved the success it did with the diminutive Canadian onboard. Additionally, Thunderbird would probably have survived their encounter with Count Nefaria and would have been a staple in the book as the resident hothead, although one without the perpetually-changing backstory. It is also unlikely that Thunderbird would have been written as a romantic rival to Cyclops for Jean's affections, eliminating that dynamic.
Beyond that, without Wolverine as a former Canadian government operative, Alpha Flight most likely would not have been created. This would have left the MU without those characters, most notably Northstar, who was the first openly-gay superhero and who was the first gay superhero to marry in a mainstream book.
Chris Claremont and John Byrne would have been denied their signature work, possibly relegating them to continued service on second-tier titles like The Champions, Iron Fist, and Man-Thing.
As the X-Men were Marvel's biggest draw throughout much of the 80s and 90s, without their success, the company would have either had to reinvigorate their other heroes, none of whom were experiencing great success (particularly in the 80s) or they could have become a casualty in the industry. X-Men #1 would not have happened, so it is unlikely that the rise of the "Image" years (with the creators believing, rightly or wrongly, that they, not the characters, were the draw to the books) would have happened in the same way or as quickly.
Lastly, the first really successful Marvel character-based movie was X-Men, so without it, it is possible that the Marvel superhero film juggernaut we experience today would not have occurred.
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Post by Randle-El on Nov 30, 2014 16:48:32 GMT -5
What if Marvel had never sold off the film rights for Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, and X-Men, enabling Marvel Studios to have full access to their entire roster of characters???
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Post by Action Ace on Nov 30, 2014 16:52:23 GMT -5
What if Martin Goodman didn't play golf?
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Post by The Cheat on Nov 30, 2014 17:10:33 GMT -5
werent there rumours that DC almost sold Batman to Marvel in the mid 80s ? Depending on how trustworthy you consider Jim Shooter.... |
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 30, 2014 17:30:14 GMT -5
werent there rumours that DC almost sold Batman to Marvel in the mid 80s ? Depending on how trustworthy you consider Jim Shooter.... I used to follow his blog and find the things that he said to be up front. I believe the rumor to be that DC was really doing badly and was thinking about leasing Superman to Marvel comics. It never passed the rumor stage although Byrne drew yo a proposal and even a cover. |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Nov 30, 2014 17:38:22 GMT -5
What book of Marvel/Atlas or National do you think he (Joe Maneely) would have suited best ? Hawkman? Black Panther/Jungle Action ? Jonah Hex ? ...[ I don't see Maneely at National. That's just me. His delicate, fine lines were uniquely suited to a more "bull-pen" environment like Atlas or EC, where he was more interested in impressing his peers than his bosses, IMHO. I think it's quite plausible that he would have been offered Fantastic Four, The Hulk, Thor. Sacrilege, I know. But this is What If?, right? And have you seen Maneely's Sub-Mariner? It looks like this:  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 19:06:29 GMT -5
What if National Comics had decided to squash the competition and not allow the fledgling Marvel to keep distributing through them in the 1960s when Marvel started gaining sales momentum? Marvel was only allowed a limited number of titles until they broke free of that distribution deal and struck on on their own on the newsstands, but what if some suit at National saw the growing sales at Marvel as a threat and cut off their avenue to the newsstands at that point? Would Kirby have returned to DC at his creative peak of the mid 60s instead of a half decade later? Would Marvel's Goodman found an end around DC sooner to open up the line before '68? Inquiring minds want to know...  -M |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 30, 2014 20:54:27 GMT -5
What if Jim Shooter stayed with Valiant, and it's universe was still running today, with Shooter attracting the attention and creativity the other occasionally challengers to the big two (like Cross Gen, Dark Horse's superheros, etc) instead? Would we have RDJ as X-O Manowar instead of Iron Man?
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 30, 2014 21:02:57 GMT -5
]werent there rumours that DC almost sold Batman to Marvel in the mid 80s ? It was a dead comic, but it still had plenty of value to Warner Bros. merchandising. Considering DC's history of hoarding comic book properties, even when they have no idea how to use them (see Shazam! and Plastic Man), I sincerely doubt there was any truth to that rumor. Fun "What If?" but I can't imagine a reality in which it would have happened. Difference being mate, that Marvel would definitely move on Superman, maybe Shazam to absolutely tie up the Captain Marvel name, but Plas... |
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Post by Cei-U! on Nov 30, 2014 21:04:32 GMT -5
I don't see Maneely at National. Maybe you don't, but Maneely could. He drew stories for House of Secrets #9-10. among others. Cei-U! I summon the forgotten credits! |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 30, 2014 21:06:28 GMT -5
What book of Marvel/Atlas or National do you think he (Joe Maneely) would have suited best ? Hawkman? Black Panther/Jungle Action ? Jonah Hex ? ...[ I don't see Maneely at National. That's just me. His delicate, fine lines were uniquely suited to a more "bull-pen" environment like Atlas or EC, where he was more interested in impressing his peers than his bosses, IMHO. I think it's quite plausible that he would have been offered Fantastic Four, The Hulk, Thor. Sacrilege, I know. But this is What If?, right? And have you seen Maneely's Sub-Mariner? It looks like this: The cool thing is, look at his work herein the late 40s(?), imagine how his style would have developed in the next 10-15 years like Kirby, Colan, Kubert et al. |
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