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Post by electricmastro on Feb 26, 2020 16:08:19 GMT -5
Looking at Cosmic Carson, I’m impressed by Kirby’s grasp of shading that he had early on: From Science Comics #4 (May 1940, Fox Comics):    |
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Post by beccabear67 on Feb 27, 2020 13:57:47 GMT -5
Really enjoying Kirby Collector #78 so far (my first issue not counting a pdf freebie from when I bought some Alter Egos as pdfs earlier)... weird that there is a cartoon of a Becca Baar shown in there (with a story behind it). I feel like I may've lost some kind of claim to beccabear as my on-line ID!  I forgot too that I used to have Journey Into Mystery Annual #1, Thor Annual #2, and the one-shot Tales Of Asgard; so managed to see at least seven Kirby era Thors (where I had too many FF to keep count, and even a number of his X-Men. I think at that time I liked the Chic Stone inking best. I remember one Nemesis comic from ACG by Stone that was total imitation Kirby, so I'm sure unlike Coletta he wouldn't have been erasing backgrounds. So interesting about the brief employment at the Fleischer animation studio (and that early comic strip about a sailor)!  The Max Fleischer Studios in 1935, where Jack Kirby started his career (Evanier 2008)
With 'Roz' a little later. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 27, 2020 14:13:22 GMT -5
Really enjoying Kirby Collector #78 so far (my first issue not counting a pdf freebie from when I bought some Alter Egos as pdfs earlier)... weird that there is a cartoon of a Becca Baar shown in there (with a story behind it). I feel like I may've lost some kind of claim to beccabear as my on-line ID! That is the issue that was the second part of my Secret Santa's wonderful gift! I loved Will Murray's article in which he makes the case that it was Simon and Kirby who "kickstarted" the Silver Age and deserve more of the credit than they ever receive. He thinks that the Challengers of the Unknown strip actually deserves even more credit than the Flash's reappearance in Showcase 4. Whether you buy into it or not (and I think he makes a great argument), the article is fun reading for anyone, and for Silver Age fans in particular. Lots of fun, geeky info and reminiscing. Thank you again, Secret Santa!! |
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Post by rberman on Feb 27, 2020 15:20:42 GMT -5
I loved Will Murray's article in which he makes the case that it was Simon and Kirby who "kickstarted" the Silver Age and deserve more of the credit than they ever receive. He thinks that the Challengers of the Unknown strip actually deserves even more credit than the Flash's reappearance in Showcase 4. Whether you buy into it or not (and I think he makes a great argument), the article is fun reading for anyone, and for Silver Age fans in particular. Lots of fun, geeky info and reminiscing. Murray's article made me think about the evolution of teams of distinct characters. I often think of FF as pioneering the "each member has his own personality, agenda, and voice" in superhero comic books. But Challengers were there first, and I guess Blackhawks was not far from that mold, and Metal Men came earlier too. So what were the earlier teams of non-interchangeable characters? Were characters like the Newsboy Legion distinct in the Golden Age? |
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Post by beccabear67 on Feb 27, 2020 16:16:06 GMT -5
I guess there are 'types' you get in those East Side Kids/Bowery Boys groups... the pugilist, the book smart one, the skinny one, the wise-cracker, the big one, the scared guy... in a way like the Easy company or Howling Commandos in the war comics. Archie had a lot of distinct characters in Archie, Betty and Jughead plus adding Reggie, Moose, Veronica, Dilton, Big Ethel. Other than someone even richer than Veronica with Cheryl Blossom they never really added a solid type after the first bunch, although Little Archie had Ambrose (the loser?). Gilbert Hernandez comics have a lot of 'types', maybe the widest of anyone modern.
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 27, 2020 16:17:55 GMT -5
As has been pointed out to me multiple times, the personalities of the FF are rather similar to THE NEWSBOY LEGION. Same writer, of course.
Every time you see a certain editor claim, "I wanted to do something nobody else had done before", not only is he LYING, he isn't explaining WHERE he got the "ideas". (He stole them from Kirby.)
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Post by MDG on Feb 27, 2020 16:24:53 GMT -5
As has been pointed out to me multiple times, the personalities of the FF are rather similar to THE NEWSBOY LEGION. Same writer, of course. "Boys Ranch" was another pre-FF variation on the group. |
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Post by electricmastro on Feb 27, 2020 16:39:00 GMT -5
Jack Kirby’s splash page art of Green Arrow from Adventure Comics #250 (July 1958, DC Comics):  |
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 27, 2020 16:42:28 GMT -5
I loved Will Murray's article in which he makes the case that it was Simon and Kirby who "kickstarted" the Silver Age and deserve more of the credit than they ever receive. He thinks that the Challengers of the Unknown strip actually deserves even more credit than the Flash's reappearance in Showcase 4. Whether you buy into it or not (and I think he makes a great argument), the article is fun reading for anyone, and for Silver Age fans in particular. Lots of fun, geeky info and reminiscing. Murray's article made me think about the evolution of teams of distinct characters. I often think of FF as pioneering the "each member has his own personality, agenda, and voice" in superhero comic books. But Challengers were there first, and I guess Blackhawks was not far from that mold, and Metal Men came earlier too. So what were the earlier teams of non-interchangeable characters? Were characters like the Newsboy Legion distinct in the Golden Age?Oh, yeah. There were the Boy Commandos and the Young Allies, both from Simon and Kirby, and Daredevil had the Little Wise Guys. While the members were distinct within the group, they were interchangeable with those in the other groups. Later on Kirby created the Boy Explorers and the Western gang from Boys Ranch. They all owed something not just to kid gangs in comic strips, but also to the Our Gang shorts as well. The Metal Men, who showed up a few months after the FF, were very like the Blackhawks in one particular respect. Just as the Blackhawks' personalities derived from the stereotypical ethnic associations, the MM's were based on standard associations with their eponymous metals: Gold was noble; Lead was dull; Platinum was beautiful; Mercury was quick-tempered; Iron was solid; Tin was weak. |
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Post by electricmastro on Feb 27, 2020 17:08:03 GMT -5
I loved Will Murray's article in which he makes the case that it was Simon and Kirby who "kickstarted" the Silver Age and deserve more of the credit than they ever receive. He thinks that the Challengers of the Unknown strip actually deserves even more credit than the Flash's reappearance in Showcase 4. Whether you buy into it or not (and I think he makes a great argument), the article is fun reading for anyone, and for Silver Age fans in particular. Lots of fun, geeky info and reminiscing. Murray's article made me think about the evolution of teams of distinct characters. I often think of FF as pioneering the "each member has his own personality, agenda, and voice" in superhero comic books. But Challengers were there first, and I guess Blackhawks was not far from that mold, and Metal Men came earlier too. So what were the earlier teams of non-interchangeable characters? Were characters like the Newsboy Legion distinct in the Golden Age? There were kid teams from various back then really, like Nedor’s Commando Cubs:  |
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Post by rberman on Feb 27, 2020 17:43:24 GMT -5
Murray's article made me think about the evolution of teams of distinct characters. I often think of FF as pioneering the "each member has his own personality, agenda, and voice" in superhero comic books. But Challengers were there first, and I guess Blackhawks was not far from that mold, and Metal Men came earlier too. So what were the earlier teams of non-interchangeable characters? Were characters like the Newsboy Legion distinct in the Golden Age? There were kid teams from various back then really, like Nedor’s Commando Cubs: Were they delineated in personality? |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 28, 2020 10:20:52 GMT -5
There were kid teams from various back then really, like Nedor’s Commando Cubs: Were they delineated in personality? Looks like. I assume all the Kid Gangs could be traced back to the Little Rascals, so there was a "smart" one a "tough" one a "funny" one, etc/ And, wow, is this a kid gang with a black member who isn't 1000% an "hilarious" racial stereotype? Kirby and Eisner etc. coulda learned a lot from Oskner & etc. The clearly defined personalities thing doesn't strike me as THAT big a deal. The Sub-Mariner acted differently from the Human Torch who acted very differently from Toro, ferinstance. And virtually all humor books had strongly deliniated characters, so most funny superheroes - Red Tornado or Johnny Thunder or Supersnipe - did as well. |
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Post by rberman on Feb 28, 2020 10:26:54 GMT -5
Were they delineated in personality? Looks like. I assume all the Kid Gangs could be traced back to the Little Rascals, so there was a "smart" one a "tough" one a "funny" one, etc/ And, wow, is this a kid gang with a black member who isn't 1000% an "hilarious" racial stereotype? Kirby and Eisner etc. coulda learned a lot from Oskner & etc. The clearly defined personalities thing doesn't strike me as THAT big a deal. The Sub-Mariner acted differently from the Human Torch who acted very differently from Toro, ferinstance. And virtually all humor books had strongly deliniated characters, so most funny superheroes - Red Tornado or Johnny Thunder or Supersnipe - did as well. Perhaps it's really DC that was the odd one out by failing to give their superheroes specific personalities until the 1970s. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 28, 2020 10:39:56 GMT -5
There were kid teams from various back then really, like Nedor’s Commando Cubs: Were they delineated in personality? Just as Repti noted, "Commando Cubs were made up of Ace Browning, their outgoing leader, Spud O'Shea, his Irish-American second-in-command, Horace Cosgrove II, the resident smart kid, Whizzer Malarkey, the chubby smart-alec whose accent suggested working-class Brooklyn, and Pokey Jones, the token African-American kid (whose depiction was either cringe-worthy or surprisingly progressive depending on the artists and writers involved)." pdsh.fandom.com/wiki/Commando_Cubs |
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Post by beccabear67 on Feb 28, 2020 13:57:03 GMT -5
The original Our Gang had 'Sunshine Sammy' as a main lead, this was in the silents. Farina was a baby in some of them. I often date Our Gang from the Sammy-Farina-Stymie-Buckwheat lineage. You can almost also do it through the main not-funny girl too. Mary-Jean-Darla. 'Sunshine Sammy' Morrison was in The East Side Kids (below) when he was a little older... the East Side Kids and Bowery Boys were big in movie theaters and a big influence on the tough boys groups in comics.   |
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