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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 11:43:29 GMT -5
Great analysis tolworthy, and wow, I own FF #200 but never noticed Doom frowning there. And yes, you are correct. Kirby left Marvel soon after, accepting a job offer from Hanna-Barbera. He worked on character designs for one of my favorite cartoons, Thundarr the Barbarian. Here's some of that work: I did not know that Kirby did Thundarr the Barbarian ... Man, Kirby left his marks everywhere ... thanks for posting this and I learned something about the great Jack Kirby today! Another interesting note to make about Thundarr, is that the cartoon further benefited from a cast of other comic creators. Joining Kirby in character design was Alex Toth, and Steve Gerber, Mark Evanier and Martin Pasko contributed to the storyline. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 11:49:08 GMT -5
I did not know that Kirby did Thundarr the Barbarian ... Man, Kirby left his marks everywhere ... thanks for posting this and I learned something about the great Jack Kirby today! Another interesting note to make about Thundarr, is that the cartoon further benefited from a cast of other comic creators. Joining Kirby in character design was Alex Toth, and Steve Gerber, Mark Evanier and Martin Pasko contributed to the storyline. That's an impressive list of talents there and thanks for the additional information. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 12:03:02 GMT -5
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Post by berkley on Dec 16, 2014 13:47:57 GMT -5
See the Wasp, up there in the upper left hand portion of this poster? That's what I was talking about earlier in the thread when I said that Kirby's glamorous women tend to look like butch bruisers. Love that Infinity Man pic though! Only on occasion, I'd say. The Scarlet Witch in the same cover doesn't have that look, IMO. And I've seen lots of glamorous women in other Kirby books who don't. Crystal and Medusa, to take two obvious examples from this thread. I always enjoy reading Tolworthy's theories but can't go along with this one since I don't think of the post-Kirby Crystal as the same character. There's no need to explain away her later behaviour - it simply does not fit the character that had appeared in the FF series up to FF 100 or shortly thereafter. It's clear that the change was made for the most arbitrary of reasons and had nothing to do with the character as such. It was something completely extraneous added on after Kirby left, and then they built up an entirely different persona based on that extraneous element. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Dec 16, 2014 14:01:59 GMT -5
Only on occasion, I'd say. The Scarlet Witch in the same cover doesn't have that look, IMO. Bah! Kirby probably got John Romita Sr. to do the Scarlet Witch's face for him!  |
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 16, 2014 15:43:59 GMT -5
I always enjoy reading Tolworthy's theories but can't go along with this one since I don't think of the post-Kirby Crystal as the same character. I have a lot of sympathy for that approach. My own cut-off point is 330 (it used to be 321). I really want to believe in continuity between writers if at all possible. Even if it takes some mental gymnastics. The idea of an epic story created by hundreds of minds over many decades really appeals to me. But yeah, getting past Kirby is quite a drop. What they did to Crystal is probably the single worst thing in comics for me. |
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Post by hondobrode on Dec 16, 2014 17:00:50 GMT -5
I love that theory Tolworthy and it totally makes sense to me.
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Post by berkley on Dec 16, 2014 17:57:09 GMT -5
I always enjoy reading Tolworthy's theories but can't go along with this one since I don't think of the post-Kirby Crystal as the same character. I have a lot of sympathy for that approach. My own cut-off point is 330 (it used to be 321). I really want to believe in continuity between writers if at all possible. Even if it takes some mental gymnastics. The idea of an epic story created by hundreds of minds over many decades really appeals to me. But yeah, getting past Kirby is quite a drop. What they did to Crystal is probably the single worst thing in comics for me. I don't know if you've read much of Grant Morrison, but, from what I understand, this is very similar to his approach to continuity. I think I've seen interviews where he talks about Batman along these lines, for example - taking every single Batman story ever written by anyone as a different take on the character or even a different era of the same character's life. I think it works better for a popular character like Batman because, though all those various versions can differ from one another quite drastically, I don't think writers feel they're free to take the same kind of liberties some of them do with less popular characters such as Crystal. |
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Post by benday-dot on Dec 16, 2014 21:02:57 GMT -5
Only on occasion, I'd say. The Scarlet Witch in the same cover doesn't have that look, IMO. Bah! Kirby probably got John Romita Sr. to do the Scarlet Witch's face for him! As a huge Kirby fan I'm not at all chagrined to say that Kirby's art is what we would call pretty art. I agree with Confessor that his often zaftig women lack the gorgeousness of a Romita female or the beauty of a Colan or sheer perfection of an Adam's drawn woman. And yet that's part of the reason why I appreciate it. The crazy cheek bones and round mounds of hair are eccentricities that not only mark a style but contribute to a unique cartooning vocabulary that doesn't just attempt to mimic the facilely pretty. I have no objective to pretty faces on pretty art, but I'm grateful it's not all like that. |
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Post by tolworthy on Dec 16, 2014 22:32:37 GMT -5
I have a lot of sympathy for that approach. My own cut-off point is 330 (it used to be 321). I really want to believe in continuity between writers if at all possible. Even if it takes some mental gymnastics. The idea of an epic story created by hundreds of minds over many decades really appeals to me. But yeah, getting past Kirby is quite a drop. What they did to Crystal is probably the single worst thing in comics for me. I don't know if you've read much of Grant Morrison, but, from what I understand, this is very similar to his approach to continuity. I think I've seen interviews where he talks about Batman along these lines, for example - taking every single Batman story ever written by anyone as a different take on the character or even a different era of the same character's life. I think it works better for a popular character like Batman because, though all those various versions can differ from one another quite drastically, I don't think writers feel they're free to take the same kind of liberties some of them do with less popular characters such as Crystal. I agree. The "different takes" approach is the mainstream one I think. As you say, it works best for iconic characters like Batman and Superman and the Hulk: they each represent a strong concept that doesn't have to change. They work for short stories. But I think other characters (like the FF) work better as soap operas and friends: so how they evolve over the years really matters. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 10:00:42 GMT -5
Mr Fantastic and Invisible Woman
Artwork done by Kirby
Done in the early 60's My 1st Artwork that I collected and I had this for 20 years already and it's priceless reproduction! I was a huge Fantastic Four fan back in the sixties when everything was glorious!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 10:03:32 GMT -5
Rare Fantastic Four Pin Up
Art done by Kirby Not for sale - sorry everyone!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 10:07:15 GMT -5
More Fantastic Four Pin-Up
that I have ... Note: Franklin Richards is in the picture!  My 2nd Fantastic Four Picture of Jack Kirby and one of my personal favorites!
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Post by Phil Maurice on Dec 17, 2014 17:40:16 GMT -5
Rare Fantastic Four Pin Up
Art done by KirbyNot for sale - sorry everyone! Wow! '62. Did these appear in an early issue of FF? If so, which one? #4 and #6 are my only single-digit FFs and I don't recall these. Interesting that (human) Ben seems to resemble Broderick Crawford, while Johhny looks a bit like Don Knotts. Those lips!
ETA: Ah, reading helps! So these appear in four separate issues. Presumably, Reed and Sue's pin-ups date no earlier than FF #3, owing to the Fantasti-Car and the uniforms. Ben and Johnny however, I can't place. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Dec 17, 2014 17:58:10 GMT -5
Only on occasion, I'd say. The Scarlet Witch in the same cover doesn't have that look, IMO. Bah! Kirby probably got John Romita Sr. to do the Scarlet Witch's face for him! You say that like it's a good thing. ;-) |
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